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Oppo PM-1 Planar Magnetic Headphone Impressions Thread - Page 14

post #196 of 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by m2man View Post

Some of the Beats models have a pretty decent FR curve

Holy cow! I wasn't familiar with those cans, so I googled up some response curves on them. You can't be serious. Those curves are so far from balanced it's amazing that anything sounds good through them!
post #197 of 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by germay0653 View Post


Isn't that is the whole point of this hobby?  To re-create what you hear at a live performance, be it in a studio, concert hall or arena.  It is for me.

I'm with you 100%. It may not matter so much for people who listen to music that is created entirely in direct patches, like electronica. But when you listen to a solo piano or orchestra, any deviation from accurate is very obvious. I listen to a lot of classical music and acoustic jazz. Balanced response is critical. No compromises there please!
post #198 of 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post

Any chance you'll be at the May 4th Dallas meet with these?
post #199 of 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Holy cow! I wasn't familiar with those cans, so I googled up some response curves on them. You can't be serious. Those curves are so far from balanced it's amazing that anything sounds good through them!
The Pro is at least reasonable for a Beats product. I heard them and thought they were remarkably decent, not what I expected. I'd certainly not be satisfied with them, but they weren't bad.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MonsterBeatsPro.pdf

They are at least in the ballpark of LCD-XCs.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCDXC.pdf
Edited by Maxvla - 4/5/14 at 5:42pm
post #200 of 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post


When someone else is wearing the headphones, you can hear the music pretty clearly. You wouldn't be able to crank Led Zeppelin in the public library without getting in trouble. I have trouble hearing people speaking to me when I'm wearing the headphones. Does that answer your question?

 

Yes, that helps...thank you.

post #201 of 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by germay0653 View Post
 


Isn't that is the whole point of this hobby?  To re-create what you hear at a live performance, be it in a studio, concert hall or arena.  It is for me.


I don't think that is the point for a majority in this hobby at all, but I don't mean that as a slam or a put down.  I find that most people want music to sound good to them, and in a lot of cases that means having headphones that skew the playback of the recording to have a similar 'signature' to other recordings.   I'm personally a Grado fan because of their 'house sound'.  I'm not ashamed of this at all, because they have the ability to make sub-par masters sound really good and fun.

 

Cans like the Alpha Dogs, and now presumably the PM-1, don't inject an 'editorial opinion' per se, and instead present the master recording, for good or ill.

 

Bigshot has it right when he states that most of us have not truly heard neutral.  Personally, that's my pursuit at the moment.  I have some very well mastered classical, jazz, and even some rock that  I believe deserve to be heard from a neutral headphone.  I

post #202 of 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

The Pro is at least reasonable for a Beats product. I heard them and thought they were remarkably decent, not what I expected. I'd certainly not be satisfied with them, but they weren't bad.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MonsterBeatsPro.pdf

Does that response curve look remotely flat to you? You've got the rocky mountains going on in the treble there. Acoustic instruments would sound totally unnatural with that curve. 3 or 4dB is very good, but that has a 10dB bass boost and a dip of almost 20dB right in the center of the treble!

The threshold of audibility for response variations is between .5dB and 1dB for test tones and 3dB for music. 10 to 20dB is a big imbalance. Accurate response is as flat a line as possible, and accurate sound sounds the best. I can play just about anything on my calibrated speaker system and it sounds good... even historical recordings. Old recordings don't have the frequency extension, but in the middle where it counts, it's very present and natural sounding. That is the nice thing about a balanced response. Everything sounds good. Not much need for tone controls.
Edited by bigshot - 4/5/14 at 6:06pm
post #203 of 3155
You have completely unreasonable expectations from headphone response charts, so I'll just let you be in your own world. If you look at many headphone graphs you'll see that both of those are fairly standard plots for good closed headphones. I don't like closed headphones, generally, for the exact reasons you describe, but don't say it isn't similar to the competition.
post #204 of 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by swspiers View Post
 


I don't think that is the point for a majority in this hobby at all, but I don't mean that as a slam or a put down.  I find that most people want music to sound good to them, and in a lot of cases that means having headphones that skew the playback of the recording to have a similar 'signature' to other recordings.   I'm personally a Grado fan because of their 'house sound'.  I'm not ashamed of this at all, because they have the ability to make sub-par masters sound really good and fun.

 

Cans like the Alpha Dogs, and now presumably the PM-1, don't inject an 'editorial opinion' per se, and instead present the master recording, for good or ill.

 

Bigshot has it right when he states that most of us have not truly heard neutral.  Personally, that's my pursuit at the moment.  I have some very well mastered classical, jazz, and even some rock that  I believe deserve to be heard from a neutral headphone.  I


I understand and no offense taken. People should listen to what they like as it's all about the involvement and emotions that music stimulates and that's very personal.  For me, it's accuracy and neutrality.  I've heard bad reproduction and I've heard good and, to me personally, if a speaker or headphone skews the response of a bad recording to sound "better" it will also skew a good recording.  What I hear live, I want to hear again as closely as possible through whatever system I'm using, be it headphones or speakers.


Edited by germay0653 - 4/5/14 at 6:21pm
post #205 of 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

You have completely unreasonable expectations from headphone response charts, so I'll just let you be in your own world. If you look at many headphone graphs you'll see that both of those are fairly standard plots for good closed headphones. I don't like closed headphones, generally, for the exact reasons you describe, but don't say it isn't similar to the competition.

X2

That is a relatively sexy looking response for the Beats Pro.
post #206 of 3155
My expectations are not unreasonable. An engineer buddy and I did a sweep with test tones on the beta 3 Oppos. They were stone flat from 28Hz all the way up to 1.6kHz. Beyond that, there were some bumps and dips, but nothing more than 3-4dB. I haven't had a chance to run tones on the retail version yet, but from comparing my Beta 3s to the retail, it sounds like the bumps in the earlier version have been evened out. They are perfectly balanced.

Frequency response is the same as sound signature. If the curve had imbalances in the range of 5 to 10dB, I could probably fix it with an equalizer. But massive imbalances of 10 to 20dB- especially in narrow frequency ranges- are compromises that I just don't want to make. Something that far off probably can't even be equalized to a natural sounding response.

I know with speakers it isn't reasonable to expect a flat response out of the box. Room acoustics are too much of a wild card. But with headphones, it isn't unreasonable to expect natural response. The response is what makes good cans better than bad ones. Response is everything.
post #207 of 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
The production copy I have now is absolutely perfect, with a remarkably balanced response across the full range from around 28Hz to the upper limits of human hearing.

 

Very good review, thanks.

 

Just how high do the phones go before rolling off?

post #208 of 3155
The problem though is the compensation curve. Who's to say what is flat after the curve? Whose curve do you use; Tyll's, Golden Ears', Purrin's, Olive's? Headphones interact differently than a pressurized room so you can't just expect flat from a headphone like you can from speakers in a properly setup system. The tweakability of speaker placements, room construction materials, reflection management (either via DSP or acoustically) and more are all things that are mostly not transferable to headphones as they are all made the same way to fit a common denominator. Sure you can mod your headphones like Anax mod HD800, jergpad HE500s, etc., but those are not nearly comparable.

Also, aren't speaker systems calibrated with open air microphones and headphones calibrated with simulated ears embedded in a dummy head? If you were to measure your microphone calibrated speaker rig with a dummy head I doubt you'll find the result still flat.
post #209 of 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 I have trouble hearing people speaking to me when I'm wearing the headphones.

Are you saying that the phones provide pretty good isolation?

 

Are the phones open or closed back?

post #210 of 3155
The response is flat out to 12kHz. From there it starts rolling off. We analyzed the tone sweeps by ear, so at some point our own ears probably were rolling off too. But the important thing about the Oppo's response is that it is flat from 28Hz all the way to 12kHz with less than 3dB variation anywhere in the range. Flat all the way from half an octave from the edge of human hearing on both ends. That is really remarkable and it nails everything you are going to be able to hear in music, at least with human ears!
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