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Reasonable prices for Sennheiser headphones - Page 4

post #46 of 64

Why is everyone comparing the MSRP of the Sennheiser's ,but not the AKG's and Beyer's. The retail of the Beyer Dt880 are $300, the AKG Q701 go for around $275. It would be more fair if you used the MSRP of all three headphones, or used the price of a used Sennheiser HD600. It seems like you guys are being biased. 

post #47 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneraI View Post
 

Why is everyone comparing the MSRP of the Sennheiser's ,but not the AKG's and Beyer's. The retail of the Beyer Dt880 are $300, the AKG Q701 go for around $275. It would be more fair if you used the MSRP of all three headphones, or used the price of a used Sennheiser HD600. It seems like you guys are being biased. 

Wut?  Q701 and DT880 Pro are both $200 on Amazon and significantly below MSRP compared to $400 for HD600.

post #48 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by thievesarmy View Post

 

I don't know, I haven't done the analysis and Apples to Apples comparison between all 3. My point is that saying "Senn's do not sound 2x better than the others" and thus shouldn't be charging 2x more in price isn't really fair because it's not just the sound quality that is contained in the price, there are other factors at hand. If the Senn's had one additional year of warranty or guarantee that would definitely matter to me and would be worthy of a higher price, for example. Or maybe they have spent a ton on R&D to eliminate the need for an amp while at the same time not being super sensitive or something - something that is more intangible than saying "better sound".

 

Resale value is not necessarily based on original cost - that is a factor, but it's more tied to if they hold their value over time or not. Some products are known to be extremely reliable, well built, and will last you years, so buying used isn't much different from buying new. Maybe the AKG's & Beyers do this as well, I don't know, just stating the principle.

 

The other thing about pricing is it's a way to differentiate a product among competition in the marketplace. So if there are AKG, Beyer, and Senn all making flagships around the same price and with similar quality & praise from customers, what will differentiate them in the eyes of the consumer? What will help people decide which is right for them? Especially if they sound & look similar. For Senn to set a higher price point, they create their own difference - and it may just be psychological or in your head, but it goes back to what I said about positioning. Senn want to be perceived as the upscale, luxury, higher priced headphone brand, and they have made a decision NOT to compete with the other guys when it comes to the lowest price point - at least not with their flagship models. 

 

If price is so important to you, by all means feel free to speak with your wallet and NOT buy Senn's. If enough people made that decision, they may have no other choice but to set their prices lower. Of course I doubt it because this is a fairly niche market that in general places more importance on quality than price - but in fairness Senn does offer cheaper headphones. They're just not the flagships.

 



This is one long speculation and I don't see any specifics so far. What are the big differences in the warranties between K70x, DT880, and HD6x0 that make it worth twice or more as much? Amping, if anything, is harder for those Senns than the others so I don't expect that's where the R&D money went. Beyers have better build quality, and they don't charge more. Etc.

Besides that, it sounds as if your saying "Well, that's how they how they want to go about branding their products." Right, that's precisely what OP and I and others take issue with. Surely, there's a better way to differentiate than simply charging more. They could start with a better product.

As to the "buy something else instead" line of argument, it doesn't answer the question of why their prices are still so high and I don't understand why anyone thinks it's relevant.
post #49 of 64

this entire discussion as to why they charge more, or why they don't charge less is speculative. The actual warranty period may be the same, BUT Senn may offer MORE in terms of their support service, for example, they may employ MORE people on their support lines, they may pay to have them BETTER trained, having people that speak every language so everyone is able to communicate, Etc. etc. Yes, I am completely speculating about this, but that's the point - I'm offering reasons why they might charge more that you may not be aware of. They may have a million things that they do that they feel makes their product / brand / service better than the competition, that they then factor into the cost of their products, making them more expensive. You may not ever be aware of these things or you may never take advantage of them, but they're still there. Or maybe they're not, and they just price to maintain the PERCEPTION that they are an upscale, luxury brand that can command such prices for their products, like Mercedes Benz. Ultimately though (if that is their reasoning) that can only last as long as people are willing to pay for that perception, and thus far it seems that they are, OR they also feel that the quality is commensurate with their prices.

 

When people say "if you don't like it, don't buy it" its not a cop-out answer, that is the REAL way for any consumer to send a message to a company. Just like voting for president, you only get one vote - you either vote for a guy or you don't. You either buy Sennheiser, or you don't. If enough people DONT buy their (in your opinion) over-priced products, it may force them to come down in price. The catch is, they may not be able to provide a given product at a price that you would find acceptable. It may simply be cost-prohibitive - so say for the HD 800's to actually sell at $500 (totally hypothetical) - they may have to change the materials or engineering process to actually meet that price point, and that would compromise the quality of the product. That's a decision every company has to make when making something - like, could we sacrifice only 10% of the quality and sell it for half the price, and make more on volume? Is that a compromise we want to make, OR are we just trying to make THE best sounding product, regardless of price? More speculation but based on things I have read on Senn, they do seem to be very committed to engineering & innovation, and I would guess that, while they do have more modestly priced products, with their higher end stuff, they are shooting for cutting edge, best technology, regardless of price. That's just my impression though.


Edited by thievesarmy - 4/2/14 at 4:14pm
post #50 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by thievesarmy View Post
 

this entire discussion as to why they charge more, or why they don't charge less is speculative. The actual warranty period may be the same, BUT Senn may offer MORE in terms of their support service, for example, they may employ MORE people on their support lines, they may pay to have them BETTER trained, having people that speak every language so everyone is able to communicate, Etc. etc. Yes, I am completely speculating about this, but that's the point - I'm offering reasons why they might charge more that you may not be aware of. They may have a million things that they do that they feel makes their product / brand / service better than the competition, that they then factor into the cost of their products, making them more expensive. You may not ever be aware of these things or you may never take advantage of them, but they're still there. Or maybe they're not, and they just price to maintain the PERCEPTION that they are an upscale, luxury brand that can command such prices for their products, like Mercedes Benz. Ultimately though (if that is their reasoning) that can only last as long as people are willing to pay for that perception, and thus far it seems that they are, OR they also feel that the quality is commensurate with their prices.

 

When people say "if you don't like it, don't buy it" its not a cop-out answer, that is the REAL way for any consumer to send a message to a company. Just like voting for president, you only get one vote - you either vote for a guy or you don't. You either buy Sennheiser, or you don't. If enough people DONT buy their (in your opinion) over-priced products, it may force them to come down in price. The catch is, they may not be able to provide a given product at a price that you would find acceptable. It may simply be cost-prohibitive - so say for the HD 800's to actually sell at $500 (totally hypothetical) - they may have to change the materials or engineering process to actually meet that price point, and that could diminish the product potentially. 

 

This is the sort magical thinking they want you to associate with their brand. Unless you know something you're not telling, I have no reason to believe they're offering more than anyone else.

 

Besides that, I don't seriously believe that any one person or even a small group of people will succeed in forcing Sennheiser to change its prices. But I do expect individuals to realize when they're being ripped off and stop pretending.

post #51 of 64

There's only one model of the 650.

 

How many 701 and 880 variants are there?

 

Gotta sell the old stuff people don't want somehow...

post #52 of 64
Yep, the revisions make it hard to say the actual price when their are like 3 revisions for the akg kxxx series and 4 different imp. for the dt880.
post #53 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eee Pee View Post
 

There's only one model of the 650.

 

How many 701 and 880 variants are there?

 

Gotta sell the old stuff people don't want somehow...

 

I'm not sure what you're saying and how it bears on Senn's high prices.

post #54 of 64
He is saying that sennheiser has the high price due to only 1 headphone and no other impedance revisions or changes.

The AKG KXX series and the DT880 have many changes ranging from impedance changes or overall changes to the sound.

IMO Sennheiser HD600 and HD650 should be both priced at $400.
post #55 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneraI View Post

He is saying that sennheiser has the high price due to only 1 headphone and no other impedance revisions or changes.

The AKG KXX series and the DT880 have many changes ranging from impedance changes or overall changes to the sound.

 

So he's agreeing that they overcharge because they've presumably spent less money on R&D and production but still charge twice as much?

post #56 of 64
I think what he is trying to say is that sennheiser charged so high for the 650 is because it was the flagship for a lot if years.
There is only one 650 in production, while there are many KXXX and DT880's.
post #57 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post
 

 

So he's agreeing that they overcharge because they've presumably spent less money on R&D and production but still charge twice as much?

lol...I didn't understand his point of view either

 

less variation means less R&D, and so HD650 should cost less

 

I still think $350 is a reasonable price for HD650...or a reasonable ON-SALE price if you do not agree with a $350 MSRP price...lol

post #58 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneraI View Post

I think what he is trying to say is that sennheiser charged so high for the 650 is because it was the flagship for a lot if years.
There is only one 650 in production, while there are many KXXX and DT880's.

still does not make sense...

post #59 of 64
All this audiophile talk, and now I'm lost as to what is the question again.
post #60 of 64
Thread Starter 

The initial question was about reasonable prices for Senn prodoucts

 

So how about we just list the prices that are reasonable according to our own valuation. Mine:

 

HD600 - $280

HD650 - $350

HD700 - $500

HD800 - $800

HD900 - $1500 for the 1st year, $1200 for the 2nd year, $1000 afterwards

HD1000- $1500 for the 1st year, $1300 for the 2nd year, $1200 afterwards

...

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