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HUGE PROBLEM with a recent transaction: escalation on PayPal, please help. - Page 3

post #31 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post
 

This is the only loophole you have available as a seller at this point:

 

If you refuse the package at the point of delivery (basically anything you can do to prevent the tracking from showing "Delivered", even leaving a note to be regarded by the courier or calling them on the day-of-delivery), then you will get to keep your money. The negative balance will drop off.

 

Yep, like I said, do not accept that package...

post #32 of 65
Thread Starter 

The problem is: I am abroad. I can't even leave a note for the courier or something like that. It's probable that he will just leave the package at my doorstep and mark it as delivered. If the item gets returned because nobody accepted it, then that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm out of trouble. The buyer has enough time to send it to me again or to accuse me of whatever he thinks I'm doing to prevent a succesful delivery, and then PayPal could react to that... It feels to me like I'm on really thin ice here.

post #33 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by AManAnd88Keys View PostThe buyer has enough time to send it to me again or to accuse me of whatever he thinks I'm doing to prevent a succesful delivery, and then PayPal could react to that... It feels to me like I'm on really thin ice here.

Call the courier and provide the tracking number and address and tell them you don't want that package, or call up your neighbor to leave a refusal note.

 

Most couriers only provide return service once and will not re-ship the parcel to the same address after it's been refused.

post #34 of 65

So let PayPal react to it and actually investigate this properly instead of rushing it to cut their losses. You now have proof that the guy was satisfied with his purchase for 3 whole days, he is the one on thin ice, not you.

post #35 of 65

Yikes.

 

I guess at this point it sound like your mind is made up but my advice: 

 

Make sure you do what you feel is right and try to keep a written or typed record of things that happen and when they happen along with the evidence; will help to "build a case" if you need that info.

 

Too late now but calling/skyping the guy probably would have been a good idea at the onset :(

post #36 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Sneis View Post
 

Yikes.

 

I guess at this point it sound like your mind is made up but my advice: 

 

Make sure you do what you feel is right and try to keep a written or typed record of things that happen and when they happen along with the evidence; will help to "build a case" if you need that info.

 

Too late now but calling/skyping the guy probably would have been a good idea at the onset :(

Yeah, this whole story will definitely have an impact on how I deal with things in the future. Everything escalated so quickly... I knew he was on to something, but I never imagined he would open a claim the same day and then have PayPal on his side the very next day. It really is a Head-Fiers nightmare.

post #37 of 65

So, if the buyer send you a stone inside a box with a tracking number by courier, and if you're not at home and if they can leave the package at your door confirming that it was delivered, you can at the end stay with a stone and without the money?

This is the most amazing story I have heard in my life.

I leave in a small country, but couriers CAN NOT leave anything in anybody's door, only the person or someone who lives in the same adress can receive the package, if you have to pick it up at the station you can open it and refuse it, if it's not what you are waiting for.

I recomend that from now on (has you have a huge feedback) to do business only by bank transfer, paypal sucks with their huge comissions, and as far as I can read allow that people can try something, damage it (or not) and send it back as you are an authorized dealer or a online shop.

 

As I told you before this is one of the most stupid decisions I've heard so far.

post #38 of 65
Thread Starter 

The package arrived today. Yeah. Now, I really don't want to discuss why it even arrived and why I didn't do everything humanly possible to prevent the delivery.... It's a difficult story and I know I made some mistakes. I hope I am more able to deal with things like these in the future.

 

As I mentioned before, I am currently abroad and will have to wait until saturday before I can check the package myself, see if the amp's actually in there and in what condition it came back.

So guess who sent me an e-mail two hours ago, asking why I don't confirm the delivery to PayPal...

This is the conversation we had today, and I don't have a problem posting it here. I don't have nothing to loose and I think it gives you an idea of the guy I had to deal with (no actual names, places etc. mentioned):

 

 

Could you please confirm to Paypal ASAP ?

 

I can confirm as soon as saturday, have to open up the package and check.
I told you that this is an old adress. I am only there on weekends. 

 

I don’t understand this : you signed.

-> (UPS information showed my name under "signed by". Someone I know accepted the package for me, don't know why it shows my name...)

Plus I’m not liable if you don’t update your address to Paypal.

 

I didn't, I am in xy right now. Someone I know received the package for me.
Sure, I don't blaim you for sending it to that adress. As long as I confirm the delivery until April 17th you'll get the refund, calm down.

 

I’m not running a bank.

 

I don't know what you mean by that. I will confirm the delivery as soon as I have opened up the package.
If you're in a hurry, then why ship the amp a week later than you said you would?
Plus, if I don't confirm it manually (which is something I wouldn't do, but let's assume) then PayPal will check the delivery status after April 17th and issue the refund themselves.

 

Meaning by that I don’t understand why I should wait a week more with money blocked on your account when the unit has been shipped

back and received.

As for the delay, I had a very busy week and could not stand behind the door waiting for UPS driver. 

 

Simple: you could have sent me pretty much anything. The person who received the package for me doesn't understand much about audio gear, so I will have to check the package myself. Don't try to rush this, I am still in the correct time frame. You'll get your refund. 

 

This is adding insult to injury. In your world, there are maybe petty thieves who return potatoes instead of amps, not in mine.

 

Things like that happen, unfortunately. More often than you would like to assume.

Read carefully: You managed to win a PayPal claim based on no evidence at all, just your word. I was stupid enough trying to help you when you were already certain that I have sent you a broken amp on purpose, which was and still is insulting to me. You pulled all the strings, like deleting positive feedback and calling PayPal. In short, you managed to become a Head-Fiers nightmare. So don't try to put pressure on me now, I have had enough of this.
I am still in the proper time frame and it is inevitable that you are going to get the full refund. End of discussion.

I have blocked you on head-fi and this is the last thing you'll ever hear from me personally.

 

-> The reply to that was pretty unbelievable...

 

Just another question : what will you offer for my time lost in all this ? More or less 5 hours in testings, discussions, Paypal and so on.

My hourly rate is 150. 

 

 

.....I didn't reply, don't want to talk to this ......... ever again. He truly let his mask slip with the last message.

post #39 of 65

Apologies in advance, part of this is my own ramblings but Head-fi's gotten pretty bad.  Have you noticed the big warnings of scammers lately?

 

I can't tell you how many experiences I basically get where someone lowballs the crap out of me - sometimes I even accept - only to have them disappear or better yet tell me they will pay me in a week.  Much less have what happened to you with a real crappy buyer.  It's fun let me tell you.

 

I feel your frustration.  One of the many parts of this hobby that really aren't as fun or accessible as they used to be IMO.

post #40 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Sneis View Post
 

Apologies in advance, part of this is my own ramblings but Head-fi's gotten pretty bad.  Have you noticed the big warnings of scammers lately?

 

I can't tell you how many experiences I basically get where someone lowballs the crap out of me - sometimes I even accept - only to have them disappear or better yet tell me they will pay me in a week.  Much less have what happened to you with a real crappy buyer.  It's fun let me tell you.

 

I feel your frustration.  One of the many parts of this hobby that really aren't as fun or accessible as they used to be IMO.

Thanks a lot for your support. It's good to see that I am not alone, but at the same time scary to know that others have made the same or even worse experiences.

Yes, I noticed that... Head-Fi's gotten pretty big too. Headphones have become a trend and scammers are now part of the "game" :( 


Edited by AManAnd88Keys - 4/9/14 at 3:36pm
post #41 of 65
This scammer needs to be identified. Does headfi have a mechanism for this?

So sorry to hear of this whole sorry experience frown.gif
post #42 of 65

Doesn't sound like he's a scammer, just a difficult customer really.  And fwiw if you do some sleuthing you can easily figure out who without having to make a scene out of it ;)

post #43 of 65
True, a bad faith negotiator is more accurate than 'scammer'. Nevertheless, groups have corrective mechanisms for those who exploit trust and other reciprocal arrangements (can you tell I'm a social psychologist?). Your second sentence is a good example of such a mechanism methinks!
post #44 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by AManAnd88Keys View Post
 

The package arrived today. Yeah. Now, I really don't want to discuss why it even arrived and why I didn't do everything humanly possible to prevent the delivery.... It's a difficult story and I know I made some mistakes. I hope I am more able to deal with things like these in the future.

 

As I mentioned before, I am currently abroad and will have to wait until saturday before I can check the package myself, see if the amp's actually in there and in what condition it came back.

So guess who sent me an e-mail two hours ago, asking why I don't confirm the delivery to PayPal...

This is the conversation we had today, and I don't have a problem posting it here. I don't have nothing to loose and I think it gives you an idea of the guy I had to deal with (no actual names, places etc. mentioned):

 

 

Could you please confirm to Paypal ASAP ?

 

I can confirm as soon as saturday, have to open up the package and check.
I told you that this is an old adress. I am only there on weekends. 

 

I don’t understand this : you signed.

-> (UPS information showed my name under "signed by". Someone I know accepted the package for me, don't know why it shows my name...)

Plus I’m not liable if you don’t update your address to Paypal.

 

I didn't, I am in xy right now. Someone I know received the package for me.
Sure, I don't blaim you for sending it to that adress. As long as I confirm the delivery until April 17th you'll get the refund, calm down.

 

I’m not running a bank.

 

I don't know what you mean by that. I will confirm the delivery as soon as I have opened up the package.
If you're in a hurry, then why ship the amp a week later than you said you would?
Plus, if I don't confirm it manually (which is something I wouldn't do, but let's assume) then PayPal will check the delivery status after April 17th and issue the refund themselves.

 

Meaning by that I don’t understand why I should wait a week more with money blocked on your account when the unit has been shipped

back and received.

As for the delay, I had a very busy week and could not stand behind the door waiting for UPS driver. 

 

Simple: you could have sent me pretty much anything. The person who received the package for me doesn't understand much about audio gear, so I will have to check the package myself. Don't try to rush this, I am still in the correct time frame. You'll get your refund. 

 

This is adding insult to injury. In your world, there are maybe petty thieves who return potatoes instead of amps, not in mine.

 

Things like that happen, unfortunately. More often than you would like to assume.

Read carefully: You managed to win a PayPal claim based on no evidence at all, just your word. I was stupid enough trying to help you when you were already certain that I have sent you a broken amp on purpose, which was and still is insulting to me. You pulled all the strings, like deleting positive feedback and calling PayPal. In short, you managed to become a Head-Fiers nightmare. So don't try to put pressure on me now, I have had enough of this.
I am still in the proper time frame and it is inevitable that you are going to get the full refund. End of discussion.

I have blocked you on head-fi and this is the last thing you'll ever hear from me personally.

 

-> The reply to that was pretty unbelievable...

 

Just another question : what will you offer for my time lost in all this ? More or less 5 hours in testings, discussions, Paypal and so on.

My hourly rate is 150. 

 

 

.....I didn't reply, don't want to talk to this ......... ever again. He truly let his mask slip with the last message.

 

This really makes my blood boil, except the last message. I'd rather throw a whole dictionary of swear words at him, but I won't.

What's going on in his head? Is it possible to show Paypal this conversation, so they drop the case? Looks like he just wants to waste your time and money. I hate these kind of people, just ruining other people's lifes. Of course, this isn't your whole life, but you know what I mean, this has probably been repeated in your head like a million times. I know it would be in my head.

 

I don't know how Paypal works with this kind of stuff, but you could try contacting them, and showing them the conversation. Be sure to left it unedited if you send it to them, so they won't have a doubt about it.

 

My respect to you, for handling this situation so calmly. I know I would've lost my ****.

post #45 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AiDee View Post

True, a bad faith negotiator is more accurate than 'scammer'. Nevertheless, groups have corrective mechanisms for those who exploit trust and other reciprocal arrangements (can you tell I'm a social psychologist?). Your second sentence is a good example of such a mechanism methinks!

Yes I can ;) I am a psychology student. Nice to see that we're both active in the same field.

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