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= HiFiMAN HE-560 Impressions & Discussion Thread = - Page 261

post #3901 of 17297
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudepan View Post
 

My wife and I don't like the production HE-560. The high is too bright; the mid is too aggressive.

We prefer the pre-production one. It is much more neutral plus the bass is better.

 

Bass is the same quality as I remember, but there is less of it...  The new model is more neutral than the old one, the old one had a more popular warmer signature though. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePianoMan View Post

It's interesting how burn-in, long accepted by the speaker community is still so debated here. Needless to say, mechanical systems do benefit from some loosening up. It's interesting to me that many find this headphone too bright. I think many will like the 400i

 

It really quite is interesting...  Most people debate it because they personally can't hear the differences as time goes on...

post #3902 of 17297
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

I agree
I think it is also very hard to tune a headphone to have great extension in the treble with little to no sibilance.
Many headphones with good extension suffer from extensive sibilance IMO.
Going the warmer "more consumer friendly" way is certainly easier - ala PM1, LCD2, etc.

But from your impressions, I assumed both 400i and 560 are extraordinarily headphones. Both are rather neutral and similar, the 400i having a bit more body in the low and mid and sacrificing a bit of the highs to tilt it slightly to a warmer neutrality, while the 560 is neutral, perhaps slightly bright, sacrificing a bit of bass and mid body for high extension [having perhaps a smidge more clarity and slightly better imaging/perceived soundstage thanks to it]

Spot on. I didn't find the 560 harsh or thin but an Audeze fan might.
post #3903 of 17297
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePianoMan View Post

It's interesting how burn-in, long accepted by the speaker community is still so debated here. Needless to say, mechanical systems do benefit from some loosening up. It's interesting to me that many find this headphone too bright. I think many will like the 400i

Try posting that on AVS or Audioholics..

Burn—in is not universally accepted.
post #3904 of 17297
Anybody run these on a speaker amp yet?
post #3905 of 17297
Quote:
Originally Posted by swspiers View Post


Try posting that on AVS or Audioholics..

Burn—in is not universally accepted.

So on the one hand, we have many respected engineers/designers/manufacturers who say burn-in is real.

 

On the other hand, we have many participants in public internet forums who are convinced that burn-in is a hoax.

 

The debate goes on...  :deadhorse:

post #3906 of 17297
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwelles View Post

So on the one hand, we have many respected engineers/designers/manufacturers who say burn-in is real.

On the other hand, we have many participants in public internet forums who are convinced that burn-in is a hoax.

The debate goes on...  deadhorse.gif

I'm pretty much agnostic in the debate, but there really is no consensus either way.

Regardless, I'm looking forward to a flood of impressions from either camp!
post #3907 of 17297

Well, I got a nice text message today...

 

Quote:
 DHL shipment #xxxxxxxxxx is scheduled for delivery tomorrow.  Can't sign for it?  Leave a signed note w/tracking # or visit http://www.dhl-usa.com/ondemand

 

Well, I have it redirected to my current location, let's hope it gets redirected, otherwise, it'll be a couple more days delay before I get them in hand :/  DHL redirection, don't fail me again! 

post #3908 of 17297

After letting my new 560s burn-in for only 8 hours, I decided to "cheap" and give 'em an early listen. Good thing. My pair has a significant channel imbalance. I've emailed HFM service, but I'm guessing that another 142 hours of burn-in ain't gonna fix it!

 

Bummer....

post #3909 of 17297
Quote:
Originally Posted by swspiers View Post

Try posting that on AVS or Audioholics..

Burn—in is not universally accepted.

I didn't mean to imply that. And while there is empirical evidence to support that conclusion, it doesn't necessarily mean huge or any changes in sound. Chances are, burn-in won't (usually) magically make you like or hate something. But burn-in itself is proven.
post #3910 of 17297
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwelles View Post
 

After letting my new 560s burn-in for only 8 hours, I decided to "cheap" and give 'em an early listen. Good thing. My pair has a significant channel imbalance. I've emailed HFM service, but I'm guessing that another 142 hours of burn-in ain't gonna fix it!

 

Bummer....

 

That's no fun :(  Make sure your contacts are screwed in all the way, the cable is connected to the source properly and the source itself isn't putting out a mis-balanced output (with a different pair of headphones).  I remember a cable issue happening at the Chicago meet that was quite interesting. 

 

Also, if you're running off of a Mac, go to your sound settings and make sure the balance is centered (I've ran into this issue personally before, it wasn't fun). 

 

If it is a channel mismatch (I hope not), then you're right, running them for another 142 hours might not help :(  Hope this issue gets fixed for you quickly :( 

post #3911 of 17297
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwelles View Post
 

After letting my new 560s burn-in for only 8 hours, I decided to "cheap" and give 'em an early listen. Good thing. My pair has a significant channel imbalance. I've emailed HFM service, but I'm guessing that another 142 hours of burn-in ain't gonna fix it!

 

Bummer....

Have you done the standard tests? Tried switching the L/R leads to the cup connectors, a different source (e.g. your PC audio jack, your phone), a different cable.

post #3912 of 17297
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePianoMan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by swspiers View Post

Try posting that on AVS or Audioholics..

Burn—in is not universally accepted.

I didn't mean to imply that. And while there is empirical evidence to support that conclusion, it doesn't necessarily mean huge or any changes in sound. Chances are, burn-in won't (usually) magically make you like or hate something. But burn-in itself is proven.

Can you provide the source for your "burn in itself is proven" claim that relates to something audible?

Audible burn in in dynamic drivers happens very quickly. A few seconds to a few minutes for anything smaller than a subwoofer and there, burn in if audible at all, only takes long enough for the surrounds me suspension to bed in and loosen a bit. The vast majority of the time, the game is over before the speaker ships.

As others have said, there is no evidence or logical engineering conclusion that planer magnetics burn in.
post #3913 of 17297

I've had mine for over two weeks now. Kept it 'burning' for about 10 days, whenever I'm not listening. So it's been running probably for over 200 hours already. I can't say the sound changed much, but I did follow what Hifiman suggested anyway.

 

Soundwise I really love these. Compared with the pre-production version, they seem a little bit more transparent, which I do prefer. I don’t feel any lack of bass as mentioned by some guys above. Actually the sound difference between the two version is very small, I can live with either one, but prefer the production version a bit more due to peace of mind (don’t need to take care of the wood cups or worry about the possibility of cracking later on). I don’t know how come some guys above feel the difference is so huge. To me they are pretty much the same, other than a little bit more transparent with the production one.

 

I’ve been listening to them mostly out of Merier Audio Corda Classic with HP-A4 as DAC, they sound fantastic. very transparent with great mids and bass, and excellent details too. I don’t feel it’s any bright at all, definitely not brighter than any of my other headphones, but my other headphones are pretty bright to many others I guess :D.

 

I also tried these with Herus together with a laptop, they sound pretty nice, but definitely feel lack of power. I guess the Herus just can't give enough juice for these. But I do enjoy watching some action movies with this setup, excellent impact and great sound stage, vocals are very intimate too.

 

I know these are not made for portable use, but we are gonna try it with our HM901s anyway, don’t we? I tried it with HM901 and Minibox card, they sounded fine, but definitely not to my like after I’ve used them with more powerful amps. Then I tried the latest discrete amp card (it’s an amp card made by a third party in China), they sound really nice, the details, bass and soundstages are all there, and the vocals are excellent too. I’m very satisfied with these alone if I didn't have a dedicated desktop amp. But I do feel these headphones deserve a better and more powerful amp. 

 

Borrowed a balanced amp card (mine was sold long time ago) from a good friend, but I only got chance to make a balanced cable yesterday, not a fancy one but out of a Beyerdynamic T1 cable (Peacock MKII by SOMMER Cable Germany). Tried the HE560 with balanced amp card, well, I definitely prefer the discrete card more, it gives out more juice, has better high and low extensions, and the vocals stand out a bit more too. The balanced card feels a bit dry and plain in comparison. But I haven’t used any other headphones to compare with these two amp cards, the balanced card might match other headphones better.

 

Anyway, these HE560s are great for jazz/pops/soft rocks which I listen to the most, and I do enjoy listening to classic music through these too. Very comfortable to wear, but I only wear them when it’s a bit cool or in aricon room.

 

I didn’t feel any regret at all about selling off the HD800/T1/TH900 after getting the pre-production version, and I still feel the same after having the production one. 

post #3914 of 17297
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

Have you done the standard tests? Tried switching the L/R leads to the cup connectors, a different source (e.g. your PC audio jack, your phone), a different cable.

Thanks for the suggestions!! Always good to double-check. Problem is in the drivers. I've tried all the suggestions from jerg and tinyman except a different cable. My teak set is at work, so I'll try that tomorrow, just to be sure.

 

If anyone else can think of something to try, let me know!

post #3915 of 17297
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post


Can you provide the source for your "burn in itself is proven" claim that relates to something audible?

Audible burn in in dynamic drivers happens very quickly. A few seconds to a few minutes for anything smaller than a subwoofer and there, burn in if audible at all, only takes long enough for the surrounds me suspension to bed in and loosen a bit. The vast majority of the time, the game is over before the speaker ships.

As others have said, there is no evidence or logical engineering conclusion that planer magnetics burn in.

 

Can you back up that statement in bold?  I should note that I have played around with burn in with a few ear-buds...  I don't have equipment to measure on-ear/full-sized headphones though...  As they IEMs burn in, the output doesn't change at all...  But after you rest the IEM for a few hours and remeasure, you may get a change...

 


This is a sample pair of the EOps Sport+ that I received...  I was curious with burn in, so I did play around with it...  I burned it in for 75 total hours, each time measuring the frequency response 3 times and averaging them...  You see some fluctuation in the treble a bit while they are burning in...  However, after resting the IEMs for a few hours after the 75 hour mark, you see that the bass rolls off and so does the treble...  This looked odd to me (I assumed the measurement shouldn't change), so I remeasured this one 10 more times (after averaging the first three; average shown on the graph) to make sure nothing happened.  I also altered insertion depth on the 10 re-measures, it moves the peaks around and past the 10k, but doesn't change the height).  Keep in mind that the original measurement was a fresh, cold driver. 

 


This is the T-Peos H-100 II that I received to review.  This is the second IEM I've tested with this.  This time, however, I was only able to measure for 40 hours.  Again, I measured 3 times and averaged.  Something was off with the last measurement however (and I didn't have time to remeasure at the time), I'm planning to re-measure it this weekend (or next) if I have the time.  Again, you see very little change while it's actually burning in, but more change after you let the driver rest. 

 

Keep in mind, these are with IEMs.  Also, do note that none of these results are conclusive...  I may end up, when I get the cash, getting multiple IEMs and testing this again with different variables...  In each instance, I let the IEM rest once and measured it's final...  I may try to re-burn in afterward the first rest, but have all IEMs burn in for the same length (does multiple "pauses" make a difference?)...  Other things may include altering the amount of time the IEM burns in before being re-measured to compare those results (does more burn in = more change?)...  It can also end up that these were two very special cases, and if it does turn out that way, I'll eat my words :p

 

Questioning whether it's audible or not is an entirely different story.  As you can see, the H-100 II didn't change much, it only burned in for 40 hours...  I haven't burned it in further unfortunately...  The Sport+ did get lighter in bass (audibly)...  They aren't huge changes, but they can be audible...  But it also depends on the person's hearing and how sensitive it is to change. 

 

_____

 

With my teak model, I think I got around 100 hours on them total (burn in)...  Didn't change too much unfortunately (to my ears). 


Edited by tinyman392 - 6/25/14 at 7:37pm
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