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= HiFiMAN HE-560 Impressions & Discussion Thread = - Page 198

post #2956 of 8350

While it is good that Hifiman are listening and responding to fix problems/improve it, this needs to happen in the beta testing phase and not after the product is released. A headphone company saying we didn't try it with people that have bigger ears doesn't really inspire confidence in their testing. Making such a major change with the veneer and rushing it out quickly again is just asking for more trouble I think. It should go through another round of beta testing by Jerg and others before it goes on sale.

post #2957 of 8350
The product was never released.
post #2958 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlxx View Post
 

While it is good that Hifiman are listening and responding to fix problems/improve it, this needs to happen in the beta testing phase and not after the product is released. A headphone company saying we didn't try it with people that have bigger ears doesn't really inspire confidence in their testing. Making such a major change with the veneer and rushing it out quickly again is just asking for more trouble I think. It should go through another round of beta testing by Jerg and others before it goes on sale.

yea, I agree. I hope HiFiman can deliver a solid product with minimal flaws *cough*HE-5*cough* no matter how long it takes

post #2959 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

HE-560 Rev. 22. This is going to end up being quite costly for hifiman to constantly replace older 560s with every incremental improvement.

I definitely won't be buying the HE400i upon release, not with these constant revisions. I'd wait until about Rev. 9. even then, I'll be cautious.

 

By the time the 560 bugs are dealt with, those will be the final revisions for the 400i as well.  I don't see them running through revisions with that as they did with the 560...  If you can call them revisions...  They never really got past the pre-order phase (though a few members did get the pre-orders as well as media). 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlxx View Post
 

While it is good that Hifiman are listening and responding to fix problems/improve it, this needs to happen in the beta testing phase and not after the product is released. A headphone company saying we didn't try it with people that have bigger ears doesn't really inspire confidence in their testing. Making such a major change with the veneer and rushing it out quickly again is just asking for more trouble I think. It should go through another round of beta testing by Jerg and others before it goes on sale.

 

I don't feel that the product was fully released, rather, a select few models were shipped to users while the rest were sent to media and testers. 

 

_____

 

I do have to say that the testing phase of the HE-560 was well done though.  They did get it in the hands of people with experience in headphones and orthos as well.  Additionally, they didn't do it behind closed doors and didn't hand them out to just about any novice person out there.  Flaws of the headphone were quickly pointed out, not denied, and fixed.  Yes, this delayed the release, but it'll result in a better headphone in the long run. 

 

_____

 

Regarding the new design, I actually like the new design.  It needs to grow on you, but if the veneer is dark enough (but light enough to still have a contrast effect), it'll look quite nice indeed.  I feel both designs look aesthetically pleasing on an equal level.  Though I will miss full-wood cups (I actually do miss them already, don't have the 560 with me anymore, waiting for the revision :/ ), let's hope the veneer won't disappoint, can't wait to see them :D

post #2960 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

 

I don't feel that the product was fully released, rather, a select few models were shipped to users while the rest were sent to media and testers. 

 

It wasn't a "full" release sure, still, l am glad I didn't pre-order these.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

I do have to say that the testing phase of the HE-560 was well done though.  They did get it in the hands of people with experience in headphones and orthos as well.  Additionally, they didn't do it behind closed doors and didn't hand them out to just about any novice person out there.  Flaws of the headphone were quickly pointed out, not denied, and fixed.  Yes, this delayed the release, but it'll result in a better headphone in the long run. 

 

Sometimes it is better to do the beta testing behind closed doors because some people don't want to step on toes here and might not speak up. But yeah, at least they selected better than what OPPO did to do the testing.

 

In any case, a lot of the testing should be redone, these are a whole new beast now. Changed pads, changed shell, changed damping, changed cable, etc.

post #2961 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlxx View Post
 

 

Sometimes it is better to do the beta testing behind closed doors because some people don't want to step on toes here and might not speak up. But yeah, at least they selected better than what OPPO did to do the testing.

 

In any case, a lot of the testing should be redone, these are a whole new beast now. Changed pads, changed shell, changed damping, changed cable, etc.

 

That didn't happen though...  Which is why we do have all these delays :p  When put into the public light, things do get out quite strongly and quickly.  We've seen that in the case of both the Oppo and the HiFiMan. 

post #2962 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post
 

 

That didn't happen though...  Which is why we do have all these delays :p  When put into the public light, things do get out quite strongly and quickly.  We've seen that in the case of both the Oppo and the HiFiMan. 

 

The latest faults were found by people who bought them to own, not the beta testers. My concern is, if I get a free HE-560 as a beta tester on head-fi and I feel it has crap bass and tizzy treble etc., and I say that here, they might not give me a free Jade 2 to test later on. I would be more likely to tell them that in private though. Maybe the beta testers should have to return them.

post #2963 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlxx View Post
 

 

The latest faults were found by people who bought them to own, not the beta testers. My concern is, if I get a free HE-560 as a beta tester on head-fi and I feel it has crap bass and tizzy treble etc., and I say that here, they might not give me a free Jade 2 to test later on. I would be more likely to tell them that in private though. Maybe the beta testers should have to return them.

 

Which faults are you referring to? 

 

The bass issue was found by Jerg (who got his for free as a beta tester) when he was playing around with the grill.  I think this could have caused the treble as well.  The housing issue was stated by myself (I have a press sample). 

 

Personally, I didn't hear the tizzy treble, maybe I wasn't sampling the right tracks?  The issue of the opening of the pads wasn't found to be an issue by the majority of the beta testers as they didn't have large ears (average sized or smaller I guess).  I actually don't think anyone who actually had the HE-560 complained earpad size (opening, not thickness) actually had the headphones in hand yet, rather they took it off of measurements (issue with this is that the ear itself is at an angle, so it's related to the opening, but they don't match up centimeter for centimeter). 

 

What other issues are you referring to? 


Edited by tinyman392 - 5/25/14 at 8:11pm
post #2964 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post
 

 

Which faults are you referring to? 

 

The bass issue was found by Jerg (who got his for free as a beta tester) when he was playing around with the grill.  I think this could have caused the treble as well.  The housing issue was stated by myself (I am part of the media group that got a sample). 

 

Personally, I didn't hear the tizzy treble, maybe I wasn't sampling the right tracks?  The issue of the opening of the pads wasn't found to be an issue by the majority of the beta testers as they didn't have large ears (average sized or smaller I guess).  I actually don't think anyone who actually had the HE-560 complained earpad size (opening, not thickness) actually had the headphones in hand yet, rather they took it off of measurements (issue with this is that the ear itself is at an angle, so it's related to the opening, but they don't match up centimeter for centimeter). 

 

What other issues are you referring to? 

 

I am not saying it has tizzy treble etc, just giving an example. I was referring to the pads are too small and the scraping of the housing. They didn't show up till a lot later when pre-orders shipped.

 

Anyway, I don't really care of the inner workings of beta testing etc. I just wanted things to be tested properly so when I buy them I get something that works not a merry go round of revisions.

 

 

post #2965 of 8350
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlxx View Post
 

 

The latest faults were found by people who bought them to own, not the beta testers. My concern is, if I get a free HE-560 as a beta tester on head-fi and I feel it has crap bass and tizzy treble etc., and I say that here, they might not give me a free Jade 2 to test later on. I would be more likely to tell them that in private though. Maybe the beta testers should have to return them.

Actually the cosmetic issue with the yokes grinding against the cups was reported by me also, very early on, but privately via direct email. I don't know why they didn't ameliorate it with the round of teak preorder HE560s though, maybe they had already planned this veneer/plastic revamp design by then and just didn't want to waste effort fixing the small batch of teak ones since they'd be replaced anyhow.

 

The baffle solidity point I raised here the earliest (pretty much on the same day I received the first HE560 prototype), but Fang reached out to me and discussed about it very soon after, and it got immediately implemented into the subsequent HE560s.

 

The earpad thing is NOT an issue, in my opinion. TONS, AND TONS of earpads for supposed circumaural headphones have much crampier / shallower openings than the new HE560 pads. It's just people nagging because they want perfect earpads since Hifiman is still revising other things too, which is a good call.

post #2966 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlxx View Post
 

 

I am not saying it has tizzy treble etc, just giving an example. I was referring to the pads are too small and the scraping of the housing. They didn't show up till a lot later when pre-orders shipped.

 

Anyway, I don't really care of the inner workings of beta testing etc. I just wanted things to be tested properly so when I buy them I get something that works not a merry go round of revisions.

 

 

 

I know someone else mentioned tizzy treble, I didn't hear it personally, but someone did (I forget who).  The small pads were stated as an issue by people that didn't have them in hand yet (opening length, not depth).  As for the housing, that was mentioned by me, I got a press sample.  The issues have been stated, mainly, by the people who got a free sample. 

 

_________

 

I do want to talk about that skeleton in the closet about stating something negative about a sample pair of headphones.  The majority of companies and PR companies, the good ones anyways, want a balanced, truthful review rather than a raving one so that the product can be displayed appropriately (they don't have a problem with raving reviews, but they also don't have a problem with a truthful one).  That means showing both it's pros and cons, it's strengths and weaknesses.  You are allowed to stated that a pair of headphones has an issue here or there, and that generally doesn't get you cut from getting another headphone in the future. 

 

For example, my first review for Bowers & Wilkins was generally negative, especially when it came to aspects of the sound.  This was for the C5, Tyll said the same thing.  Both of us ended up getting the P3 after (I liked it to an extent, Tyll didn't).  Then we both ended up getting the P7 which we both did enjoy, though it was a bit bassy.  All the reviews showcased the negative aspects of the headphone, as well as the positive (if we could find any). 


Edited by tinyman392 - 5/25/14 at 8:21pm
post #2967 of 8350
Quote:

Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

 

I do want to talk about that skeleton in the closet about stating something negative about a sample pair of headphones.  The majority of companies and PR companies, the good ones anyways, want a balanced, truthful review rather than a raving one so that the product can be displayed appropriately (they don't have a problem with raving reviews, but they also don't have a problem with a truthful one).  That means showing both it's pros and cons, it's strengths and weaknesses.  You are allowed to stated that a pair of headphones has an issue here or there, and that generally doesn't get you cut from getting another headphone in the future. 

 

For example, my first review for Bowers & Wilkins was generally negative, especially when it came to aspects of the sound.  This was for the C5, Tyll said the same thing.  Both of us ended up getting the P3 after (I liked it to an extent, Tyll didn't).  Then we both ended up getting the P7 which we both did enjoy, though it was a bit bassy.  All the reviews showcased the negative aspects of the headphone, as well as the positive (if we could find any). 

 

Umm... ask Tyll why he won't review the HE-400.

post #2968 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlxx View Post
 

 

Umm... ask Tyll why he won't review the HE-400.

 

Tyll is limited in the amount of reviews he can do a month (he's only one man, and he gets lots of samples a month).  I'm sure he's tried to fit it in, but just could never find the time to do it.  He stated they were a little bright, a little too bright and that's all he really said about it.  That wasn't exactly a positive statement. 

 

We're getting off track here though.  People who get samples can make negative remarks about the headphones.  It's been done...  On multiple occasions. Here, there, just about everywhere. 

post #2969 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post
 

 

Tyll is limited in the amount of reviews he can do a month (he's only one man, and he gets lots of samples a month).  I'm sure he's tried to fit it in, but just could never find the time to do it.  He stated they were a little bright, a little too bright and that's all he really said about it.  That wasn't exactly a positive statement. 

 

We're getting off track here though.  People who get samples can make negative remarks about the headphones.  It's been done...  On multiple occasions. Here, there, just about everywhere. 

 

He said it is because he doesn't like how it sounds and he doesn't like writing negative reviews so he won't be reviewing it.

post #2970 of 8350
The last ten or so pages have been nothing but ups and downs of sheer ridiculousness, Lunacy, BS talk and gossip in the negative sense.
Duh..

Crap Talk about revisions, looks, cracking, etc.
All misleading and untrue gossip(!)
You guys gotta grow up instead crapping and leaving misleading statements in this thread.

It is simply foolish about any talk of cracking!
I don't know where that fantasy came from..

Then talk of plastic is also wrong(!). ALL headphones USE "plastic"..
You can call it plastic but you don't know what composite of "plastic" it is..
HiFiMan has made durable "plastic" in the past, so why wouldn't they know how to make quality plastic?..
DUH!

I owned over 5 different Audio Technica woodys,
AND they all HAVE some type of PLASTIC inside..
DUH!
Can you say "HD800"..
If its not made of metal(!), then guess what could it be made of?...

You cannot say "plastic" is somehow cheap,
because you are not the one making it..
JUST ALOT of ignorance talk .


Then the wood veneer...
How disrespectful it is to imply HiFiMan doesn't know what they're doing with the choice, and somehow being indecisive..
What they choose is what they choose.
Don't like it? TOO BAD!! :P

Then the total slander about revisions. .
How can there be revisions if the phone hasn't been mass produced or shipped yet??
I am on waiting list for pre-order and haven't had a pre order unit yet, so has it been produced?
Hello.. Anybody home??
That means there has been no revisions if is hasn't come out yet.. DUH!!

Just because it is publicly known what happening to the he560, BEFORE going into production,
doesn't mean we have ANY "SAY" to complain or judge what's actually going on...
That info is all just a courtesy to members here to stay informed.

In comparison, just look at how many pre-production versions of the oppo pm1 there have been...
Oh wait. . You haven't herd of any?
That's because they didn't choose to disclose ANY INFORMATION, AND suddenly, after deep silence, Thier PM-1 came out!
I guess some of you guys rather have it that way..

If HiFiMan says it is actually better than before,
then that makes it even closer to the he6 level,
So that means it will be better than anything in it's price.
So guess who gets the last laugh..HAHA!

All I can say is go rain on someone else's parade instead of speculation hating tongue.gif
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