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= HiFiMAN HE-560 Impressions & Discussion Thread = - Page 157

post #2341 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ieee754 View Post
 

I don't have any problem with bass quantity, it's OK for me, but thanks for the tip. I tried playing some bassy music with EQ cuttoff of all frequencies above 100Hz and there was no audible rattle so I think it doesn't affect sound quality much. But I worry it might become apparent with subbass focused songs and on stronger amp. When I repeat the bass shaker test from this site few times, it seems that sometimes the buzz is quieter or louder, or resonating with different frequencies (usually it's loudest at 20-50Hz, suddenly gets quiet and appears again at 60-70Hz). Maybe cables inside are touching drivers? I tried to examine it but I couldn't remove the driver even after unscrewing it, so I gave up.

That's exactly what I'm talking about when I say "control", diaphragm losing control = rattling. The HE560 diaphragm needs a good internal seal (chamber between the driver, the earpads, and your head) to pump 20-50 Hz at loud volumes without the distortion.

 

Try playing the tones again, but with the headphone worn on your head and adjusted correctly so both earpads are sealed well.

 

Could this be the cause of the "tizz", type vibration that I hear sometimes with certain vocals at a little higher volume?  I hear this in the treble though....it would be my only complaint about the sound of the HE-560. and a few others mentioned this as well in the review thread.  I was hoping this would go away with more burn in.  Voices such as Linda Ronstadt, Loreena McKinnet, Allison Krause, as examples. male vocal Brendan Perry.  Certain treble frequencies seem to resonate slightly.  Can be repeated at the same point of the song!

post #2342 of 8350
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute View Post
 

 

Could this be the cause of the "tizz", type vibration that I hear sometimes with certain vocals at a little higher volume?  I hear this in the treble though....it would be my only complaint about the sound of the HE-560. and a few others mentioned this as well in the review thread.  I was hoping this would go away with more burn in.  Voices such as Linda Ronstadt, Loreena McKinnet, Allison Krause, as examples. male vocal Brendan Perry.  Certain treble frequencies seem to resonate slightly.  Can be repeated at the same point of the song!

No, what I described has nothing to do with treble behaviour. Anyhow a "tizz" can be due to (relative) emphasis in upper treble, or ringing in the upper treble if it's serious tizz.

 

If you are comparing these directly to PM1s which have a massive roll-off right after 10kHz, then anything with linear rather than rolled-off upper treble will sound tizzy. It's all relative.

post #2343 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute View Post
 

 

Could this be the cause of the "tizz", type vibration that I hear sometimes with certain vocals at a little higher volume?  I hear this in the treble though....it would be my only complaint about the sound of the HE-560. and a few others mentioned this as well in the review thread.  I was hoping this would go away with more burn in.  Voices such as Linda Ronstadt, Loreena McKinnet, Allison Krause, as examples. male vocal Brendan Perry.  Certain treble frequencies seem to resonate slightly.  Can be repeated at the same point of the song!

No, what I described has nothing to do with treble behaviour. Anyhow a "tizz" can be due to (relative) emphasis in upper treble, or ringing in the upper treble if it's serious tizz.

 

If you are comparing these directly to PM1s which have a massive roll-off right after 10kHz, then anything with linear rather than rolled-off upper treble will sound tizzy. It's all relative.

 

Actually I am comparing the HE-560 to my DT880 600 ohm, in "tizz" effect in the treble......I don't hear it in the DT880, where I do in the HE-560.  I have compared both in the same vocals, and with different source and amps....and it always repeats in the same spots on the HE-560!  Maybe something wrong with my pair, but I was concerned when a couple others reported this same thing.  Sounds to me like it could be some type of vibration in the nano thin diaphragm of the HE-560 that is acting up.  I know some have had a problem with a rattling caused by hair on the diaphragm of the DT880.  I have taken a magnifying glass under good light and examined the drivers on the ear pad side, and found nothing on the HE-560.  This seems to be bilateral as well!

 

I can watch the frequency analyzer in jRiver MC, and what I hear is in treble below 10,000 hz!


Edited by cute - 5/12/14 at 8:23am
post #2344 of 8350
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute View Post
 

 

Actually I am comparing the HE-560 to my DT880 600 ohm, in "tizz" effect in the treble......I don't hear it in the DT880, where I do in the HE-560.  I have compared both in the same vocals, and with different source and amps....and it always repeats in the same spots on the HE-560!  Maybe something wrong with my pair, but I was concerned when a couple others reported this same thing.  Sounds to me like it could be some type of vibration in the nano thin diaphragm of the HE-560 that is acting up.  I know some have had a problem with a rattling caused by hair on the diaphragm of the DT880.  I have taken a magnifying glass under good light and examined the drivers on the ear pad side, and found nothing on the HE-560.  This seems to be bilateral as well!

I think we need to wait for the measurements to start rolling out for HE560 to really know for sure how its treble looks like in terms of FR and decay.

 

DT880's treble is interesting, it has two peaks (at 6kHz and 8kHz), then an extended upper treble that is about 7dB quieter than those peaks, so the upper treble is not that emphasized.

 

I've done tone sweeps with HE560 and its upper treble feels as present if not more present than the low~mid treble, so it could very well have significantly more upper treble quantity than DT880.

 

Again, gotta wait for the objective measurements to know for sure.

post #2345 of 8350
I noticed the tizz at higher volume yesterday, too.
It's like a small ringing in the treble and happens only with few selected tracks.
I'm currently running with the DA8, which has a Sabre DAC that could well be the culprit.
I'll check with the SA-2 soon.

-> for the first time in almost a year, I feel like I'm connected to the music again! The sound, while still not as "in front of me" as I would like, is enveloping, like a surround effect. It's the first time I get that effect and I quite like it (anything that is not inside my head will do...).
The imaging and details, really, are excellent!

Fang (and your crew), you're the men!
post #2346 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute View Post
 

 

Actually I am comparing the HE-560 to my DT880 600 ohm, in "tizz" effect in the treble......I don't hear it in the DT880, where I do in the HE-560.  I have compared both in the same vocals, and with different source and amps....and it always repeats in the same spots on the HE-560!  Maybe something wrong with my pair, but I was concerned when a couple others reported this same thing.  Sounds to me like it could be some type of vibration in the nano thin diaphragm of the HE-560 that is acting up.  I know some have had a problem with a rattling caused by hair on the diaphragm of the DT880.  I have taken a magnifying glass under good light and examined the drivers on the ear pad side, and found nothing on the HE-560.  This seems to be bilateral as well!

I think we need to wait for the measurements to start rolling out for HE560 to really know for sure how its treble looks like in terms of FR and decay.

 

DT880's treble is interesting, it has two peaks (at 6kHz and 8kHz), then an extended upper treble that is about 7dB quieter than those peaks, so the upper treble is not that emphasized.

 

I've done tone sweeps with HE560 and its upper treble feels as present if not more present than the low~mid treble, so it could very well have significantly more upper treble quantity than DT880.

 

Again, gotta wait for the objective measurements to know for sure.

 

I sold my Beyer T1 a couple of weeks ago, to make room for the HE-560, and I don't recall the T1 having an abnormal "tizz" with these vocalist either.  Even though the treble on the T1 is extended, and is on par with the treble of the HE-560.  Maybe just the difference between planar magnetic and dynamic diaphragm drivers?

post #2347 of 8350
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemmaster View Post

I noticed the tizz at higher volume yesterday, too.
It's like a small ringing in the treble and happens only with few selected tracks.
I'm currently running with the DA8, which has a Sabre DAC that could well be the culprit.
I'll check with the SA-2 soon.

-> for the first time in almost a year, I feel like I'm connected to the music again! The sound, while still not as "in front of me" as I would like, is enveloping, like a surround effect. It's the first time I get that effect and I quite like it (anything that is not inside my head will do...).
The imaging and details, really, are excellent!

Fang (and your crew), you're the men!

If there is indeed ringing, we will be able to see it with the CSD measurements in the near future (either from ultrabike or from purrin). It's nearly impossible to say for sure with just listening, too many false positives.

 

I've stated that there does seem to be a hump centered around 12kHz or so, that emphasis alone (without ringing) could be perceived as tizz for treble-sensitive individuals. Against HD800, HE560s did feel a bit less smooth in the upper extremes. To my ears it's still very competent though.


Edited by jerg - 5/12/14 at 10:08am
post #2348 of 8350

^^ I thought Purrin was on some kinda break/hiatus??

post #2349 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

That's exactly what I'm talking about when I say "control", diaphragm losing control = rattling. The HE560 diaphragm needs a good internal seal (chamber between the driver, the earpads, and your head) to pump 20-50 Hz at loud volumes without the distortion.

 

Try playing the tones again, but with the headphone worn on your head and adjusted correctly so both earpads are sealed well.

I don't think it helps anything. When I press headphones tightly into my head it's still apparent. After I put them away about 1m from me, and play low bass tone then I hear only this buzzing sound from one speaker. It's like diaphragm is not attached tightly and starts vibrating when bigger force is applied. I guess I'll have to wait until replacements arrive, it seems to be only a mechanical issue, not influencing musical experience in any audible way.


Edited by ieee754 - 5/12/14 at 10:35am
post #2350 of 8350

How exactly does ringing manifests itself? Is it like sibilance, a sort of "tizz"?

I think I'd confuse it for harsh treble or is it easy to identify?

post #2351 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post
 

How exactly does ringing manifests itself? Is it like sibilance, a sort of "tizz"?

I think I'd confuse it for harsh treble or is it easy to identify?


Very hard to discern... and difficult to explain lol

I'll leave it to @jerg

post #2352 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimzerz View Post
 


Very hard to discern... and difficult to explain lol

I'll leave it to @jerg

You sure that isn't MJ calling?

post #2353 of 8350

Meanwhile, ears are dying in anticipation... Not that the K612 ain't great! for the price... but!!! The 560 can't come soon enough :p Issues be fixed, hopefully the cans will start shipping within a week from now :popcorn: Sigh...

Looking forward to the bigger earpads though! And non-rubbing swivels! Still gonna +1 for a "worthy fix delay" award.

post #2354 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute View Post

Could this be the cause of the "tizz", type vibration that I hear sometimes with certain vocals at a little higher volume?  I hear this in the treble though....it would be my only complaint about the sound of the HE-560. and a few others mentioned this as well in the review thread.  I was hoping this would go away with more burn in.  Voices such as Linda Ronstadt, Loreena McKinnet, Allison Krause, as examples. male vocal Brendan Perry.  Certain treble frequencies seem to resonate slightly.  Can be repeated at the same point of the song!

Can you share what exact tracks and locations you hear the "tizz" so we also can test and see if our copies have the same problem? I've listened to a couple of Allison's albums with HE560, but I didn't hear the "tizz" you talked about.
post #2355 of 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post
 

How exactly does ringing manifests itself? Is it like sibilance, a sort of "tizz"?

I think I'd confuse it for harsh treble or is it easy to identify?

 

What I hear at certain treble frequencies, I would describe as a "shouty" type of effect/vibration, it manifests itself at a slightly higher volume that the rest of the vocal, but it is a quick type of spike, unless the same frequency hits again.  I'm probably not making much sense trying to describing this.....

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