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= HiFiMAN HE-560 Impressions & Discussion Thread = - Page 85

post #1261 of 10894
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post
 

I feel that a properly compensated FR graph can confirm some subjective findings for a person, or persons.  In otherwords, I feel that there is correlation between the frequency response and subjective findings.  I know Tyll does this, others as well, they'll point to a certain part of the frequency response, square wave, etc. and explain why that shows what they are hearing.  Going the other way, reading a graph, is a much harder feat however.  At this point in time, we understand enough to go one direction, from our subjective findings to the graph (properly compensated) to confirm what we hear.  Going the other direction, graph to subjective (blind, we don't know the subjective up front), isn't entirely possible as we don't understand this direction as much. 

All my use of FR graphs is relative.  I'll take two FR graphs from the same measurement setup, one of a headphone I know, and one of the headphone I'm curious about, and use the knowledge I have about the known headphone to discern useful things about the new one.  To me, compensation isn't really needed, although it helps to keep track of a baseline in any measurement setup.   Tyll's data is really great for this, by the way.

 

The only gotcha is resonances.  If a headphone has them, it might not be obvious from the FR graph, and even standard EQ won't fix them because they'll still ring over time even if you lower their amplitude.  I recently came across a dynamic headphone that acutely suffered from this problem.  Fortunately the high-end planar headphones typically don't have those kinds of resonances.  :)  

post #1262 of 10894
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzman7 View Post
 

All my use of FR graphs is relative.  I'll take two FR graphs from the same measurement setup, one of a headphone I know, and one of the headphone I'm curious about, and use the knowledge I have about the known headphone to discern useful things about the new one.  To me, compensation isn't really needed, although it helps to keep track of a baseline in any measurement setup.   Tyll's data is really great for this, by the way.

 

The only gotcha is resonances.  If a headphone has them, it might not be obvious from the FR graph, and even standard EQ won't fix them because they'll still ring over time even if you lower their amplitude.  I recently came across a dynamic headphone that acutely suffered from this problem.  Fortunately the high-end planar headphones typically don't have those kinds of resonances.  :)  

 

Those resonances will always get to you XD  The only thing that will show those properly is a CSD plot.  Square waves can, but it's harder to spot (if at all possible) :p  I personally wouldn't compare headphones this way either though because of the missing time axis that you can't account for that isn't shown. 

 

Didn't the HE-400 have a spike in the midrange (which in turn caused a resonance) that was quite annoying to some listeners?  XD 

post #1263 of 10894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

Like I said before, graphs and other peoples opinions can't tell you what you need to know about how you will hear something and what your tastes are. I fell for that with the LCD-2.....it was supposedly God's gift to the headphone world...absolute realism....it was anything but.

And the doctor thing was a joke....
I feel the same damn thing about LCD2
I bought them blindly or should I said deafly after saw the fantastic FR
I'm glad now they've gone
Edited by wewewho77 - 4/13/14 at 11:25pm
post #1264 of 10894

Graphs only tell us a bit about the headphone design e.g. is it a well engineered headphone or not. You can pick up stuff like frequency dips and overshoots which can suggest poor damping etc. which are typical design trade-off decisions. The THD plots gives us a good idea whether the headphone will sound free of distortion or not. Waterfall plots are equally handy in showing insight into how frequencies are presented and will point out issues with the housing, but most of these don't really tells us how they sound. I also use graphs of headphones that I own and know well and overlay graphs of the headphone I'm interested in to discover more about its general sound signature. Still nothing like a real demo.

 

I guess you could relate it to a identifying the ideals of a political party, but it doesn't tell you anything about the people representing the party. You only get to know them by listening to them! :p

post #1265 of 10894
Quote:
Originally Posted by daerron View Post
 

Graphs only tell us a bit about the headphone design e.g. is it a well engineered headphone or not. You can pick up stuff like frequency dips and overshoots which can suggest poor damping etc. which are typical design trade-off decisions. The THD plots gives us a good idea whether the headphone will sound free of distortion or not. Waterfall plots are equally handy in showing insight into how frequencies are presented and will point out issues with the housing, but most of these don't really tells us how they sound. I also use graphs of headphones that I own and know well and overlay graphs of the headphone I'm interested in to discover more about its general sound signature. Still nothing like a real demo.

 

I guess you could relate it to a identifying the ideals of a political party, but it doesn't tell you anything about the people representing the party. You only get to know them by listening to them! :p

All true to what you say.   But if you know your own tendencies in terms of what you like and don't like from the FR graphs, you can use that too.   I guess the only real risk in using FR graphs is if the measurer somehow makes a mistake in the measurement and gives a false impression based off of the measured curve.  

 

Low distortion is also very important.  I learned that from an early purchase of the AKG K581LE -- nice frequency response, but very grainy sounding.  Any attempt to EQ the headphone made the grain worse.    

 

As for the HE-560, I'm hoping it has ruler-flat bass.  I'm a fan of the older Audezes.  A lighter headphone with the same visceral bass would be amazing.  

post #1266 of 10894
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

I far prefer Hifiman's 560 approach. Neutral with great extension on both ends, dynamic, with great PRaT.

+1

 

Oh please please Fang tune all your headphones to be neutral. Including the 400i ;)

post #1267 of 10894
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post
 

+1

 

Oh please please Fang tune all your headphones to be neutral. Including the 400i ;)

I think they would be better like HE-400 - v-shaped/fun alternative to neutral models. That would be a good reason to have both :o2smile: 

post #1268 of 10894

jerg, how do you think the bass of the latest version of the HE-560 compares to that of the HE-400 and HE-500? Specifically, can you comment and/or rank them in terms of quantity, quality, and impact? I loved the amount and impact of bass on my HE-400, but sold them off because I wanted a more natural sound and more forward/engaging vocals. The treble, airiness, full mid range, and imaging of the HE-560 all sound amazing to me--my only reservation is the bass. Does it have enough to make bassy EDM music (e.g. trap) sound good and satisfying?

post #1269 of 10894
Quote:
Originally Posted by stjj89 View Post

jerg, how do you think the bass of the latest version of the HE-560 compares to that of the HE-400 and HE-500? Specifically, can you comment and/or rank them in terms of quantity, quality, and impact? I loved the amount and impact of bass on my HE-400, but sold them off because I wanted a more natural sound and more forward/engaging vocals. The treble, airiness, full mid range, and imaging of the HE-560 all sound amazing to me--my only reservation is the bass. Does it have enough to make bassy EDM music (e.g. trap) sound good and satisfying?

Check the first page. It's all there.
post #1270 of 10894
Quote:
Originally Posted by stjj89 View Post
 

jerg, how do you think the bass of the latest version of the HE-560 compares to that of the HE-400 and HE-500? Specifically, can you comment and/or rank them in terms of quantity, quality, and impact? I loved the amount and impact of bass on my HE-400, but sold them off because I wanted a more natural sound and more forward/engaging vocals. The treble, airiness, full mid range, and imaging of the HE-560 all sound amazing to me--my only reservation is the bass. Does it have enough to make bassy EDM music (e.g. trap) sound good and satisfying?


Does this satisfy you? :biggrin: Can't wait to hear these babys with stuff like Savant or Infected Mushroom....

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

This is gonna be contending for the #1 spot for EDM headphone I think. The 'stat-like treble + some of the best ortho bass I've heard + extreme openness of sound = recipe for mastery with EDM genre.

 

I should probably update my review post with regards to bass. With the baffle fixed now in the official version, and some familiarizing with the overall sound, I just feel that the bass far eclipses what the HE400/500 does for me.


Edited by Ratheriian - 4/14/14 at 4:02am
post #1271 of 10894
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

Check the first page. It's all there.

Oops, just read jerg's brief comment on the bass in comparison to that of the he-400 and he-500. I guess that answers my question, though any further elaboration and comments on bass performance on specific tracks would be greatly appreciated!
post #1272 of 10894
I hate the term EDM. Lol
post #1273 of 10894
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

I found something today (with the help from someone) but I'm not going to say anything about it until about a month from now. Posting for the sake of posterity.

 

Someone remind me in 1 month if I forget to post about it then. Thanks.

An extra pair of 560s that you're going to mail to me?

 

Awwww, thanks Jerg.  You shouldn't have.

 

Except that, really, you should.

 

Just Kidding.

 

But not really.

post #1274 of 10894
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stjj89 View Post


Oops, just read jerg's brief comment on the bass in comparison to that of the he-400 and he-500. I guess that answers my question, though any further elaboration and comments on bass performance on specific tracks would be greatly appreciated!

Well, bass response I already elaborated upon. I don't think 400 / 500 are on par. Infected Mushroom - Becoming Insane, and HE560's bass is perfect in impact and balance, tight as all can be. The same pattern as I go through soundtracks with complex bass like all of Hans Zimmer's stuff. Ronald Jenkees' tracks are viseral like HE400 but I can definitely "feel" more of the lowest notes. Binaural album: Explorations in Space and Time, bass kicks with drums and percussions are very realistic, due to the combination of bass tightness and articulation.

 

Man I hate commenting on things referencing to specific tracks, I wanna claw my eyes out.

 

With regards to everything else, HE400 is out of the picture.

 

HE500's merits are in terms of tonal balance (I think it has its own organic natural charm, relative to HE560's more neutral / HE6-esque balance), rolled-off treble (HE560 is much airier/extended, and IS less forgiving with music; everything sounds very smoothed-off with HE500), lush reverberant midrange (HE560's midrange is much "quicker" and faster in transients, and in turn less lush for vocal-junkies). All these merits are, as you can tell, preferential.

 

Does that answer your questions?


Edited by jerg - 4/14/14 at 9:12am
post #1275 of 10894
I thought HE-6s vocals were absolutely amazing 0_0 Best I've heard to this day. So I guess I'll be content with the way 560 handles them as,well wink.gif
Also, in term of forgiving/unforgiving the HE-6 fared much better than anticipated. Suffice to say, there are a lot more unforgiving headphones out there.

Just my 0.2. YMMV. Not disagreeing or anything.
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