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= HiFiMAN HE-560 Impressions & Discussion Thread = - Page 84

post #1246 of 6260
Thread Starter 

One important detail I neglected to mention about the new HFM pads vs Jergpads comparison I did, is that my modulor Jergpads were worked-on by me further...I angled them in order to improve soundstage depth. So while my personal pair of Jergpads trade blows with the new HFM pads, I have to assume that other Jergpads lose an edge due to lack of angling.

 

Nonetheless, I think the difference in how they each attenuate the tonal balance determines whichever one is better for a user. If you get the HE560s and feel that they are too bright for your tastes, you might want to score a pair of Jergpads somewhere and try that instead. If you feel the neutral balance is perfectly fine for you then there is zero reason to waste $$$ and try other pads. These new HFM pads are insanely comfortable and well-built.


Edited by jerg - 4/13/14 at 11:53am
post #1247 of 6260
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

I have a feeling Oppo should have perhaps chosen their testers from a broader range of people. I am sure the people that did the tuning meant well.
I am also sure that the warm-neutral tuning is perhaps the "crowd pleaser" solution and there might be more people interested.
I far prefer Hifiman's 560 approach. Neutral with great extension on both ends, dynamic, with great PRaT.
I am sure mileage vary a lot in this regard. But extended treble helps with soundstage, vocals or instruments - it adds air.
Some people call it coloration, I don't. I think it makes everything more real and life like.
The HE-560/6/4 are prime examples of treble done right.
I suppose the PM-1 is more in the Audeze category, where treble is smooth and air is mostly missing.

 

I'm with you on this Luke.  I trust your ears anyway.. :biggrin:

post #1248 of 6260
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

I'm with you on this Luke.  I trust your ears anyway.. biggrin.gif

I am going by observations still ;D
I trust yours even more so... You had the most influence on my decision with the HE-6 ;D
Great minds think alike Darryl beerchug.gif
I am certainly curios how well the 560 will do with my system, but I have my hopes high smily_headphones1.gif
post #1249 of 6260
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

Damn I am pumped for these!
Seeing the PM-1 rolls off the treble sooner than the LCD-X is a bit of a bummer for me... I love air, with a <12khz massive roll-off there'll be practically none ;/ Oh well, makes the choice so much easier though. 200 bucks cheaper with the baffle fixed... Bring it ;D

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

I have a feeling Oppo should have perhaps chosen their testers from a broader range of people. I am sure the people that did the tuning meant well.
I am also sure that the warm-neutral tuning is perhaps the "crowd pleaser" solution and there might be more people interested.
I far prefer Hifiman's 560 approach. Neutral with great extension on both ends, dynamic, with great PRaT.
I am sure mileage vary a lot in this regard. But extended treble helps with soundstage, vocals or instruments - it adds air.
Some people call it coloration, I don't. I think it makes everything more real and life like.
The HE-560/6/4 are prime examples of treble done right.
I suppose the PM-1 is more in the Audeze category, where treble is smooth and air is mostly missing.

 

How can you make these claims if you have not heard any of them?

post #1250 of 6260
Thread Starter 

I found something today (with the help from someone) but I'm not going to say anything about it until about a month from now. Posting for the sake of posterity.

 

Someone remind me in 1 month if I forget to post about it then. Thanks.


Edited by jerg - 4/13/14 at 5:42pm
post #1251 of 6260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

Damn I am pumped for these!
Seeing the PM-1 rolls off the treble sooner than the LCD-X is a bit of a bummer for me... I love air, with a <12khz massive roll-off there'll be practically none ;/ Oh well, makes the choice so much easier though. 200 bucks cheaper with the baffle fixed... Bring it ;D

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

I have a feeling Oppo should have perhaps chosen their testers from a broader range of people. I am sure the people that did the tuning meant well.
I am also sure that the warm-neutral tuning is perhaps the "crowd pleaser" solution and there might be more people interested.
I far prefer Hifiman's 560 approach. Neutral with great extension on both ends, dynamic, with great PRaT.
I am sure mileage vary a lot in this regard. But extended treble helps with soundstage, vocals or instruments - it adds air.
Some people call it coloration, I don't. I think it makes everything more real and life like.
The HE-560/6/4 are prime examples of treble done right.
I suppose the PM-1 is more in the Audeze category, where treble is smooth and air is mostly missing.

 

How can you make these claims if you have not heard any of them?


Measurements and some impressions make the sonic statements. As for the "crowd pleaser" signature being warm over neutral, he had Dr. Olive and Dr. Welti backing him up.
post #1252 of 6260
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

I found something today (with the help from someone) but I'm not going to say anything about it until about a month from now. Posting for the sake of posterity.

 

Someone remind me in 1 month if I forget to post about it then. Thanks.


I think you just said "something" about it!

post #1253 of 6260
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

Measurements and some impressions make the sonic statements. As for the "crowd pleaser" signature being warm over neutral, he had Dr. Olive and Dr. Welti backing him up.

 

What pray-tell does that mean? And can he not answer the question himself? And what do I care what his doctors think...

post #1254 of 6260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
 

 

What pray-tell does that mean? And can he not answer the question himself? And what do I care what his doctors think...

 

Why so defensive?  He's read impressions and looked at measurements to determine that the 560 are geared towards the more neutral side while the PM-1 are warm-over-neutral.  They aren't his doctors, but Olive and Welti were able to show that the warm-over-neutral sound signature was more favored over a flat neutral (for over-ear headphones anyway) in their research for Harman.

post #1255 of 6260
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post
 

 

Why so defensive?  He's read impressions and looked at measurements to determine that the 560 are geared towards the more neutral side while the PM-1 are warm-over-neutral.  They aren't his doctors, but Olive and Welti were able to show that the warm-over-neutral sound signature was more favored over a flat neutral (for over-ear headphones anyway) in their research for Harman.

 

Like I said before, graphs and other peoples opinions can't tell you what you need to know about how you will hear something and what your tastes are. I fell for that with the LCD-2.....it was supposedly God's gift to the headphone world...absolute realism....it was anything but.

 

And the doctor thing was a joke....

post #1256 of 6260

FR graphs become useless after awhile. They are good for locating any serious dips or peaks, but that's about it. CSD plots take FR plots a bit further but even then you have to hear it yourself to really understand what something can sound like.

post #1257 of 6260
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

I found something today (with the help from someone) but I'm not going to say anything about it until about a month from now. Posting for the sake of posterity.

Someone remind me in 1 month if I forget to post about it then. Thanks.

Two general unspecific questions

1) does it have an effect on the sound?
2) did you share with our doctor?

See, saying things like that ain't good for my blood... Will it cause a rev.2 release? Is it something to cancel my preorder for? Will I be buying an inferior product because of XYZ?

I think it was unanimously accepted that your contribution was very essential in the end. Why so secretive now?
Thanks.
post #1258 of 6260
I don't remember reading, but do we know how these will scale? Looking into investing in a nice tube amp and selling my HE-500... Can we speculate on a decent pairing?
post #1259 of 6260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post
 

FR graphs become useless after awhile. They are good for locating any serious dips or peaks, but that's about it. CSD plots take FR plots a bit further but even then you have to hear it yourself to really understand what something can sound like.

If I may refine your statement, FR graphs are very useful to begin with, but don't tell the whole story and hence after a while you end up using them as a guide, if you use them at all.  

 

CSD plots show a more complete story but I don't know anyone who has worked out a qualitative way to compare them -- something like "if you like this type of sound, search for this feature in a CSD plot of the headphone." 

 

I say this having done lots of EQ'ing experiments between various headphones, discovering the sound signature I prefer, and eventually shelling out the dough for an expensive planar -- in this case, an LCD-2.  

 

Having said all that, I am very curious about any FR curve information anyone has on the HE-560.  I'd like to see if it has the same bass extension as the (older) Audeze models.  I want the bass slam of the pre-fazor LCD-2 but in a slightly brighter sound signature.  I don't want to trade bass slam for increased treble clarity.  

post #1260 of 6260

I feel that a properly compensated FR graph can confirm some subjective findings for a person, or persons.  In otherwords, I feel that there is correlation between the frequency response and subjective findings.  I know Tyll does this, others as well, they'll point to a certain part of the frequency response, square wave, etc. and explain why that shows what they are hearing.  Going the other way, reading a graph, is a much harder feat however.  At this point in time, we understand enough to go one direction, from our subjective findings to the graph (properly compensated) to confirm what we hear.  Going the other direction, graph to subjective (blind, we don't know the subjective up front), isn't entirely possible as we don't understand this direction as much. 

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