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DIY Cable Gallery!! - Page 710

post #10636 of 13926

Paracord is excellent for sleeving cables. Lowest microphonics of anything I've tried.

post #10637 of 13926
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinmc View Post

So I picked up some silver plated copper stranded wire coated in teflon from navships on ebay and recabled some KSC75's.  The microphonics were explosive, completely unbearable in my book.  Did I do something wrong or is that just expected with stranded wire?  I didn't sleeve them in anything, but did a relatively tight litz braid.  

 

I do have some type I and type III 550 paracord coming for this and other projects so maybe that will make a marked improvement?

 

 

 

I'll take viciously stiff solid core over stranded every time if that I what I should expect.

Its the teflon than makes the microphonics really bad in my experience, not stranded wire.

post #10638 of 13926
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuujin View Post

hey darin, microphonics are not more pronounced with stranded. i never had this issue.

you have to be careful for single core wires tho. if you are using thin gauges be wary of breakages.

 

So you're saying that stranded wire doesn't produce microphonics?  From what I understand it is the strands "striking" one another that cause the microphonics, something that cannot be avoided without filaments included to prevent them from hitting one another.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardgedee View Post

 

 

Your problem is because of the Teflon insulation on the wire. It is stiff and hard, and that's what makes the wire noisy. The insulation on Navships' wire is exacerbated a bit by being thicker than we actually need it (since it's industrial or mil-spec, which is more demanding than audio. Usually...)

 

Solid core will always be stiffer and harder than stranded. For the most part, pretty much pointless for headphone cable. A headphone cable of solid core 26 AWG could probably hold your headphones up for you on your desk.

 

I have a cable made of Navships wire that I use for one of my IEMs. It's sleeved in multifilament, which cuts down a lot on the noise. Paracord might be even better. You'll still get a resonant THUNK if you've got your headphones on when you plug the cable into an amp, but the usual noises of the cable hitting the desk, your chest, your shoulders should diminish a great deal.

 

I'm really getting confused about what causes microphonics.  It doesn't make sense to me if the cause is the teflon, because teflon wouldn't, in my mind, transmit energy to the headphone drivers.  It does make sense that paracord and filament reduces it because they act as impact absorbtion, though.  I just wish I understood enough to move forward.  I could genuinely care less about how stiff a cable is, I move around quite a bit with headphones on, so microphonics are huge but the cable remaining in a single position doesn't restrict or affect my movement.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangster View Post

Paracord is excellent for sleeving cables. Lowest microphonics of anything I've tried.

 

At least I made one good decision in this recabling process....

post #10639 of 13926
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinmc View Post

So I picked up some silver plated copper stranded wire coated in teflon from navships on ebay and recabled some KSC75's.  The microphonics were explosive, completely unbearable in my book.  Did I do something wrong or is that just expected with stranded wire?  I didn't sleeve them in anything, but did a relatively tight litz braid.  

 

I do have some type I and type III 550 paracord coming for this and other projects so maybe that will make a marked improvement?

 

 

 

I'll take viciously stiff solid core over stranded every time if that I what I should expect.

You can expect solid core to break on a headphone cable.  It can only flex so many times before it will snap.  

 

The cable noise you are getting is from the teflon and the silver plating.  Both make the wire harder and transmits the sounds up the cable to your headphones..  You can cover it in something soft to help a little bit, but unfortunately, that it just the way that most SPC from Navships is.  Very nice wire for chassis work and does fine for interconnects, but not great for headphone cables.

 

To really reduce the cable noise, use the most finely stranded wire you can get with something soft as the dialectric like polyethylene (although I did get my hands on some very thin teflon coated OCC wire that was very nice).   The thinner the dialectric, the better for cable noise.  A soft covering like nylon multifilament, cotton, or paracord can help in some cases as well.

post #10640 of 13926
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinmc View Post

So you're saying that stranded wire doesn't produce microphonics?  From what I understand it is the strands "striking" one another that cause the microphonics, something that cannot be avoided without filaments included to prevent them from hitting one another.

 

I believe he said that stranded wire is not as inherently bad at it as solid core wire is. Which is correct.

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by darinmc View Post

I'm really getting confused about what causes microphonics.  It doesn't make sense to me if the cause is the teflon, because teflon wouldn't, in my mind, transmit energy to the headphone drivers.  It does make sense that paracord and filament reduces it because they act as impact absorbtion, though.  I just wish I understood enough to move forward.  I could genuinely care less about how stiff a cable is, I move around quite a bit with headphones on, so microphonics are huge but the cable remaining in a single position doesn't restrict or affect my movement.

 

The noise you're hearing is not electrical, it's mechanical -- it's literally the wire vibrating as it bangs against your desk, scrapes across your shirt, and so on. The noise vibrations gets conducted up to your headphones in the same way the string conducts a sound when it's tensioned between two tin cans and somebody speaks into one of them. Or the BZZOWNT! noise you can get by tapping the guywire cable on a telephone pole with a coin. It's a mechanical coupling, and you'd still (mostly) hear the same noise if your cable did not have a complete electrical circuit with the headphones. (You can test this right now, if your cable is plugged into the headphones: Unplug them, press that plug against a hard surface of one of the cups, and drop the other end on your desk.)

 

Broadly speaking, stiffer materials are going to be more efficient at conducting that mechanical noise, and Navships' teflon-coated wire is notoriously stiff. Fraggler gave you a good summary of attributes that make other wires less mechanically noisy.

post #10641 of 13926

Wow thanks guys, that makes a lot more sense.  Now that I re-read the original explanation I found it also aligns with what has been said here, I just misunderstood.

 

I guess this wire will be for static situations...

 

Will canare quad be worth the time and money on a pair of grado sr-80i's?

 

 

Edit: I already have the plugs, paracord and heatshrink so 10 bucks for the above question.

post #10642 of 13926

sorry if i didnt put it clearly enough. i just wanted to warn you regarding solid core wires for headphone recabling because i recabled my KSC75s with the mundorf silver/gold wires (26awg) and they snap so often it wasnt viable to use them anymore.

post #10643 of 13926
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinmc View Post

Wow thanks guys, that makes a lot more sense.  Now that I re-read the original explanation I found it also aligns with what has been said here, I just misunderstood.

 

I guess this wire will be for static situations...

 

Will canare quad be worth the time and money on a pair of grado sr-80i's?

 

 

Edit: I already have the plugs, paracord and heatshrink so 10 bucks for the above question.

I want to say that Mogami is slightly more flexible due to the served shield as opposed to the braided shield on the Canare.  I would also advise using the mini starquad since it is more compact and lighter.  

 

Whether or not it is worth it is up to you.  You are asking a bunch of DIY cable junkies if it is worth it :)   I don't know if any of us will promise mind blowing changes in sound, but most will probably confirm that it is a fun and addicting hobby.

post #10644 of 13926
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinmc View Post

Wow thanks guys, that makes a lot more sense.  Now that I re-read the original explanation I found it also aligns with what has been said here, I just misunderstood.

 

I guess this wire will be for static situations...

 

Will canare quad be worth the time and money on a pair of grado sr-80i's?

 

 

Edit: I already have the plugs, paracord and heatshrink so 10 bucks for the above question.

Canare quads are generally pretty good. I did my first cabling with it and it gave my SR60s some warmth that they needed. :)

post #10645 of 13926

Alright cool, I guess I've gone this far I might as well spend the 10 bucks to see what the mini starquad is all about.  I do love the idea of customization, even if the end result is only for aesthetics.

post #10646 of 13926

It's kind of weird to say this after the discussion above, but of the the three cables I regularly use in my IEMs, the one with Navships wire is the least noisy.

 

One cable is an IEM manufacturer's premium cable. It's copper and probably some kind of PE insulator. It's braided and jacketed end-to-end in heatshrink. More limber than that might imply. It's crazy how loudly it relays the slightest tap -- plugging it into an amp after putting my IEMs in my ears yields a loud THWUNK. Sounds nice, though, when I can keep my head still.

 

Another cable is my first attempt at an IEM cable. It's copper and PTFE insulated, sleeved in multifilament. Almost as loud as the heatshrinked cable, though without the painful THWUNK when plugging into amps. Brushes against my shirt are distractingly loud -- fabric-on-fabric means more friction, and since the cables go over-the-ear, they're more or less perpetually brushing against my shirt unless I lean waaaaay forward. I blame this on the braiding -- a very tight four-strand square braid -- and using sleeving that's too tight.

 

My second attempt at an IEM cable uses the Navships wire. It's got a looser braid (4-strand flat), looser multifilament sleeve, and homemade IEM plug bodies made of Sugru. My guess is the softness of the Sugru (it's a pliable silicone) helps damp a lot of the vibrations conducted up the wire, and the looser sleeve makes for softer impacts. Ultimately it's still more noisy than I'd like, but perfectly tolerable.

post #10647 of 13926
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardgedee View Post

It's kind of weird to say this after the discussion above, but of the the three cables I regularly use in my IEMs, the one with Navships wire is the least noisy.

 

One cable is an IEM manufacturer's premium cable. It's copper and probably some kind of PE insulator. It's braided and jacketed end-to-end in heatshrink. More limber than that might imply. It's crazy how loudly it relays the slightest tap -- plugging it into an amp after putting my IEMs in my ears yields a loud THWUNK. Sounds nice, though, when I can keep my head still.

 

Another cable is my first attempt at an IEM cable. It's copper and PTFE insulated, sleeved in multifilament. Almost as loud as the heatshrinked cable, though without the painful THWUNK when plugging into amps. Brushes against my shirt are distractingly loud -- fabric-on-fabric means more friction, and since the cables go over-the-ear, they're more or less perpetually brushing against my shirt unless I lean waaaaay forward. I blame this on the braiding -- a very tight four-strand square braid -- and using sleeving that's too tight.

 

My second attempt at an IEM cable uses the Navships wire. It's got a looser braid (4-strand flat), looser multifilament sleeve, and homemade IEM plug bodies made of Sugru. My guess is the softness of the Sugru (it's a pliable silicone) helps damp a lot of the vibrations conducted up the wire, and the looser sleeve makes for softer impacts. Ultimately it's still more noisy than I'd like, but perfectly tolerable.

I have never sleeved my IEM cables so I don't get the fabric on fabric noise.  Since I do naked braids, I do get noise when it passes over my desk edge, but otherwise I don't notice much noise.  And once the music starts, I usually don't notice anything.  

post #10648 of 13926

My setup is primarily mobile, phone (flac)-amp/noamp-headphones, and it mostly involves me doing other things, not sitting still.  I have a desk setup as well for my pc but usually I'm either playing CS or doing something quick.  EVERY long listening session involves my mobile setup, so I really only have that in mind when considering upgrades.  Based on that premise and what I'm seeing here it may be in my best interest to only make interconnects in the future.  I saw some anti-microphonic canare cable, but it was 2 wire and still 6mm thick, so I'd be looking at a 1.2cm side by side cable terminating into a mini plug.  Might be kind of cool to have each cable terminate to RCA then make an RCA to mini interconnect so I could have other options...

post #10649 of 13926
Quote:
Originally Posted by FraGGleR View Post

I have never sleeved my IEM cables so I don't get the fabric on fabric noise.  Since I do naked braids, I do get noise when it passes over my desk edge, but otherwise I don't notice much noise.  And once the music starts, I usually don't notice anything.  

Yeah, I have some experiments planned that hopefully avoid sleeving. But for the most part I kind of prefer it. Maybe because it helps hide my inconsistent braiding smily_headphones1.gif

The tightness of the sleeving counts for a lot, I suspect. The looser sleeving on the Navships wire is far less noisy when brushed.
post #10650 of 13926
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardgedee View Post


Yeah, I have some experiments planned that hopefully avoid sleeving. But for the most part I kind of prefer it. Maybe because it helps hide my inconsistent braiding smily_headphones1.gif
The tightness of the sleeving counts for a lot, I suspect. The looser sleeving on the Navships wire is far less noisy when brushed.

 

That's very right, don't stretch the sleeving too much!  It needs to be loose, but not too loose either.

 

 

Paracord over cotton sleeving for the win!

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