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iDSD micro Crowd-Designed! Phase 2: SmartPower. Please feed the Meaty Monster. (page 124) - Page 74

Poll Results: What % of your listening is Desktop vs Portable? (click on ONE answer please)

Poll expired: Apr 22, 2014  
  • 22% (30)
    Desktop (100%)
  • 36% (49)
    Desktop (75%) & Portable (25%)
  • 18% (25)
    Desktop (50%) & Portable (50%)
  • 17% (24)
    Desktop (25%) & Portable (75%)
  • 5% (7)
    Portable (100%)
135 Total Votes  
post #1096 of 1848

What will the t-Shirt look like?

post #1097 of 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by iFi audio View Post

 

Octa-Speed DSD512 + 768kHz

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by obsidyen View Post
 

Numbers are great but... Musicality is what matters.

 

Useful numbers are great. I don't think I want to support this audiophile bigger and bigger numbers spiral of lunacy, at any point in the commercial chain, so it's byebye from me. Looks like my iCAN is going to be my first and last ifi product now.

 

This is not a format troll post. I'm sure ifi marketing are far too savy to get into any justification discussion, and format discussions have their place in other threads on the topic. This is just one customer saying sorry, don't like the game, won't play.

post #1098 of 1848

Musicality is what matters and I would agree with that. However it has shown to me that equipment that have higher bandwidth even if you do not use the extra bandwidth tend to sound better providing everything else is equal. I believe that you can have both. It always been my impression in the first place that IF/AMR picked the BB DAC chip over other chips that have better numbers but for better sound.

 

P.S. I hope also that IFI pushing the iDSD micro product that recording engineers would take another look to increasing their skills in making better recordings and mastering in the first place.


Edited by john57 - 6/27/14 at 11:03am
post #1099 of 1848

Still looking for an answer to my question... "Dear iFi... I would like to know what will be included in the box with the iDSD?"     Thank you... :)

post #1100 of 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadioWonder737 View Post
 

Still looking for an answer to my question... "Dear iFi... I would like to know what will be included in the box with the iDSD?"     Thank you... :)

 

They already replied-

the accessories in the box would be revealed next week.  

post #1101 of 1848
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roamling View Post
 

What will the t-Shirt look like?

 

Hi,

 

You have to wait and see. That one will definitely be leaked out! :normal_smile :

post #1102 of 1848
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad-E-Ginathom View Post
 

 

 

 

Useful numbers are great. I don't think I want to support this audiophile bigger and bigger numbers spiral of lunacy, at any point in the commercial chain, so it's byebye from me. Looks like my iCAN is going to be my first and last ifi product now.

 

This is not a format troll post. I'm sure ifi marketing are far too savy to get into any justification discussion, and format discussions have their place in other threads on the topic. This is just one customer saying sorry, don't like the game, won't play.

 

Hi,

 

We appreciate you are not being a troll - so no problem there.

 

And we haven't banned anyone - we try our best to keep this thread open but on track. If you wish to talk off tangent, then as you said, it is more for another thread.

 

We are sorry to lose you as a customer but if you read through all the technical notes we hope you may have gathered a better sense that we really do our homework and we wouldn't toil so hard just to say we can do Octa-Speed DSD512/PCM768 all natively just to give you bigger numbers. If it was that easy, then we wouldnt be the only one able to do both in the first place.

 

If you do not mind our suggesting, this is kind of joining the dots. But if you do not empathise with our position that we are striving very hard to bring exceptional performance for the dollar, with ALL the other features and designs to arrive at the final micro iDSD, then we have not done our job.

 

We are truly sorry to see you go.

post #1103 of 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by iFi audio View Post

Hi RW737,

We might as well let you all in on it as earlier today, we became aware that some of our eager beaver retailers have already let the cat out of the bag to their customers! You lot really know how get info. Kudos!



The 'Octa-Adopter' 512 units
To celebrate the Octa-Speed DSD512, the first worldwide production shipment of 512 units (in addition to the micro iDSD + accessories of course!) will come with:

1. "Octa-Adopter" Tee-Shirt (only 512 tees will be made)

2. Unique "Red Hot Turbo" serial number

3. Special Invitation to the iClub.



What is the iClub?


This is a "by invitation only" VIP membership to our exclusive iFi Owner's club.

Each member is assigned his/her concierge - who becomes their personal contact for all things iFi/computer audio related:

Benefits range from:
1. Input in design/development stage

2. Testing of beta/access to newly launched products
3. Gatherings in specific cities and to meet the iFi network of staff, distributors/retailers
4. MAJOR surprises/benefits for members that elevates ownership of iFi above all other audio brands

and a "few" other things.

Never mind our retailers who are a little stoked but they tell us this package has already gone down a storm with their customers. regular_smile%20.gif  Nice!


nb: To you observant people, this is why a few weeks back, we could only say "several hundred collector's units" as we could not divulge it was actually 512 units!
Nice!

Wondering if the contest winners will be able to get in on these special 512 units or if they are already reserved for your distributors. Understand if they are for the distributors only, as it's a great perk for early adopters. Thanks!
post #1104 of 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by iFi audio View Post
 

 

Hi,

 

We appreciate you are not being a troll - so no problem there.

 

And we haven't banned anyone - we try our best to keep this thread open but on track. If you wish to talk off tangent, then as you said, it is more for another thread.

 

We are sorry to lose you as a customer but if you read through all the technical notes we hope you may have gathered a better sense that we really do our homework and we wouldn't toil so hard just to say we can do Octa-Speed DSD512/PCM768 all natively just to give you bigger numbers. If it was that easy, then we wouldnt be the only one able to do both in the first place.

 

If you do not mind our suggesting, this is kind of joining the dots. But if you do not empathise with our position that we are striving very hard to bring exceptional performance for the dollar, with ALL the other features and designs to arrive at the final micro iDSD, then we have not done our job.

 

We are truly sorry to see you go.


Thank you for such a nice reply. I do not doubt ifi's integrity, engineering quality, or anything like that. I do not doubt the value for money of the product compared to others (where possible as it now seems to be unique). Nothing "personal," other than that I don't think it is healthy to be a leader in an unhealthy game. 

 

Of course, saying that I'll never buy any ifi product ever again might be an exaggeration, but it is not going to be this one.

 

Thanks again for your response.

 

 

post #1105 of 1848
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kugino View Post


Nice!

Wondering if the contest winners will be able to get in on these special 512 units or if they are already reserved for your distributors. Understand if they are for the distributors only, as it's a great perk for early adopters. Thanks!

 

Hi,

 

Yes - each one of the 12 winners get one of the "Octa-Adopter 512" units and all the perks that come with it, including the iClub membership.

 

All good.

 

:normal_smile :

post #1106 of 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by john57 View Post
 

Musicality is what matters and I would agree with that. However it has shown to me that equipment that have higher bandwidth even if you do not use the extra bandwidth tend to sound better providing everything else is equal. I believe that you can have both. It always been my impression in the first place that IF/AMR picked the BB DAC chip over other chips that have better numbers but for better sound.

 

P.S. I hope also that IFI pushing the iDSD micro product that recording engineers would take another look to increasing their skills in making better recordings and mastering in the first place.

I concur with the first part entirely.

 

Regarding P.S. I have to say that I am both ecstatic and aghast by the DSD512 - at the same time.

 

Ecstatic is easy to understand - who would not like to have a better product ?

 

Aghast is a bit harder to understand for the average listener. The recording gear for DSD256 does not exist for more than 2 years, meaning there are hardly any true DSD256 recordings available. At the moment, there are no DSD512 capable commercially available recorders.

 

The size of the files for the DSD look like this :

 

DSD64            1 GB            22 minutes audio

DSD128          1 GB            11 minutes audio

DSD258          1 GB               5 min 30 sec  audio

DSD512          1 GB               2 min 45 sec  audio

( redbook CD    0.7GB        80 min audio )

 

That means your storage has to go up by a factor of X - depending "what" resolution are you using now. It means Terrabyte RAID arrays & backups - which both dwarf the cost of the micro.

 

Above is the minimal problem for the recording engineer. What higher sampling rates bring is increased extension in high frequencies, in case of DSD256 that should be "essentially flat" to approx 100 kHz, in case of DSD512 at least 150 kHz, both rolling off above that frequency far far less sharp than in PCM with brick filtering.

 

It means new microphones "approximately" capable of such extended bandwidth - currently, there is only

one commercially available microphone with 100 kHz bandwidth . It means FAR better whatever is following the microphone , it means pushing the envelope on every front, it means one hell of a lot of money before the first recording truly of such calibre can be attempted - because it takes time to master any new tool. The pace at which a new microphone can be designed/built is extremely slow process, measured in years, if not decades - a DAC can be designed "overnight" in comparison. And the greater effort/work will ALWAYS have to be done by the microphone guys...

 

And it has to be said loud and clear - "upconverting" anything, even DSD up to DSD512 will not bring the same quality as true DSD512 recording - meaning most remastering business will make little if any sense.

As much as I would have liked to bring back Toscanini, Callas, Hendrix or ( paste here your favourite late  performer you would like to be recorded in his/her prime using latest recording gear ) - that is not possible. 

 

Please do not get me wrong; I am extremely vocal supporter of "fast" audio, be it analog or digital, here on head-fi. But the nearest association octa brings is supersonic commercial flight and its icons, the Concorde and TU-144. Yes, it is/was a technological breaktrough/achievement , yes it was the prestigious way of flying - for the tiny elite who could afford it. This nut was so tough to break that USA abandoned its own SST rather early into the development, the TU-144 was only flown for a very short period of time mainly for the prestige at a loss to its operator, the Concorde being far more commercially succesful - but that barely kept it afloat. Practical costs of air transport using subsonic Jumbo Jets or supersonic Concorde are so vastly different that an average passenger would not even dare to dream about flying with Concorde - even if it was still in operation.

 

So, please (re)consider; if you are going to utilize all the capabilities which micro is offering, BY FAR the lowest cost will be the micro itself. Due to the quantum leap of performance in recording required to get to the true DSD512 recording, the cost will have to be passed on to the consumer - so do not expect price differences as between DSD64 and DSD128, which are possible with currently available equipment - expect at the very minimumat least double that what DSD128 downloads costs now.

 

I also do not anticipate an order of magnitude higher speed internet either - or at least not at the same price we are paying at the moment, not anytime soon.

 

All that said and done, I am on the lookout for the "piggybank" I have stashed away so well that myself have trouble in finding it; meant for the trully exceptional audio products. I do not care for the T-shirt or specially numbered limited edition micro, but membership in the iClub is something I can ill afford to miss. IFi audio seem to be one of the extremely few audio manufacturers who obviously consider the whole chain, from sound live to what you can listen at home - not just from the input to the output of their "box".

 

And that is worth supporting.


Edited by analogsurviver - 6/27/14 at 1:24pm
post #1107 of 1848
Upset about a company trying to support different formats and trying to stay "future-proof"? I don't get it. It's not as if they're stopping redbook support. If you're into trying the newest formats, then great. If not, then don't use them. Ifi's not forcing you to do anything. I, for one, think the ever-increasing bitrates is silly. I have my doubts about their purported better quality. But if it means music will be mastered better and more care will be taken in the production of music, I'm all for it.
post #1108 of 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by kugino View Post

Upset about a company trying to support different formats and trying to stay "future-proof"? I don't get it. It's not as if they're stopping redbook support. If you're into trying the newest formats, then great. If not, then don't use them. Ifi's not forcing you to do anything. I, for one, think the ever-increasing bitrates is silly. I have my doubts about their purported better quality. But if it means music will be mastered better and more care will be taken in the production of music, I'm all for it.


Yeah, the high bitrate support is just fluff for me - may be good some day, no benefit (to me) right now.  

 

The real benefits I see are:

 

  • Much higher power for headphones vs. Nano (130mW vs 2,000mW at 32 Ohms). I have everything from IEMs to HE-500, so the higher power (and adjustability for IEMs, etc.) will be great
  • iPurifier technology built-in - no need for external USB "decrappifier"
  • Selectable filters for both PCM and DSD, including "bit perfect" filter that minimizes both pre / post ringing somehow
  • Charging port for portable devices (e.g., iPhone)
  • Direct connect to iPhone via Apple's own Lightning adapter
  • "3D" / XBass - extras I may or may not use 
post #1109 of 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by iFi audio View Post
 

 

Hi,

 

Yes - each one of the 12 winners get one of the "Octa-Adopter 512" units and all the perks that come with it, including the iClub membership.

 

All good.

 

:normal_smile :

yay! thank you!

post #1110 of 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by kugino View Post

Upset about a company trying to support different formats and trying to stay "future-proof"? I don't get it. It's not as if they're stopping redbook support. If you're into trying the newest formats, then great. If not, then don't use them. Ifi's not forcing you to do anything. I, for one, think the ever-increasing bitrates is silly. I have my doubts about their purported better quality. But if it means music will be mastered better and more care will be taken in the production of music, I'm all for it.

No, not at all. The whole concept about the DSD is of "future proof" - from day one. Ifi is VERY clear about supporting ALL non lossy formats with as much as possible equal respective quality, playing them natively - and that is very commendable. As a matter of fact, I like everything iFi does.

 

I merely wanted to bring everyone's attention to the fact that the higher the resolution provided by the micro will be used, the costlier will it be. 

 

As much as I would like it otherwise - people are still advocating that nothing can be gained from using digital better tha redbook CD. You can expect Resistance with capital R to the changes DSD512 requires - yesterday, as I was Googling DSD512 and DXD 768 kHz ( NOTHING but reference back to this thread) , I stumbled upon this :

 

http://recording.org/index.php?threads/europe-premiere-recording-in-dxd.28629/

 

That is HOW Mr. Lindberg of 2L ( who must take credit of making a VERY large share of DXD recordings, from which DSD is most commonly generated ) was "greeted" - now imagine if you are recording engineer and have to replace practically everything except studio room - it is a capital investment. And you have to be extremely sucessful in obtaining the recording artists - what will sell better, a young great but generally unknown artist on the brink of a succesful career on DSD512 - or say ( you can substitute any artrist of your choice that is well established ) Dire Straits on CD ? Remember, "they" are established, have established artists, do not require a single iota to improve in their studio to make CD, "you" have to start from scratch in everything in order to be able to make a true DSD512 recording... 

 

HiRez digital of any resolution is primarily suited to acoustic music ( classical, jazz, ethno, etc ) - where nuances it offers do come out. The moment we are dealing with electrically amplified or even digital PCM instruments and multimiking so prevalent in popular music, a great deal of these nuances HiRez is capable of simply do not exist anymore - or at best not to the same degree as in acoustical. It is no surprise most new DSD recordings ( not remasters of old recordings ) are from these or similar acoustic genres of music.

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