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High End Bluetooth Headphones - Page 3

post #31 of 456
Thread Starter 

@cehowardNote3 It is a bit hard for me do do my own measurements when you haven't given scale of any sort! Thanks for the pictures though.It seems from the pictures that the HK BT is the largest of the ear cups but your ears will sort of sit on the cups rather than inside them like on the Sony MK2. The Harman Kardon's case looks nicer though!

 

Regarding the sound quality, could you expand on it a bit further. Like how does the bass compare between the 3 headphones? What about the clarity of vocals and the high end? Do any of them sound more sibilant than others? I know you are still learning terminology so just explain it how you think they sound if you can.

 

Thanks


Edited by n00b2 - 3/25/14 at 9:12pm
post #32 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b2 View Post
 

@cehowardNote3 It is a bit hard for me do do my own measurements when you haven't given scale of any sort! Thanks for the pictures though.It seems from the pictures that the HK BT is the largest of the ear cups but your ears will sort of sit on the cups rather than inside them like on the Sony MK2. The Harman Kardon's case looks nicer though!

 

Regarding the sound quality, could you expand on it a bit further. Like how does the bass compare between the 3 headphones? What about the clarity of vocals and the high end? Do any of them sound more sibilant than others? I know you are still learning terminology so just explain it how you think they sound if you can.

 

Thanks

n00b2, will try to get a ruler and see about the measurements. I am glad you understand my "newbie status", and all my comments should be taken with that in mind.. With that said, the MK2, is clearly above the other 2 in every category. So, for references, I will just leave the MK2 out of the comparisons.

 

On the Harman Kardon BT my co-worker said they are not as smooth as the Sony MDR 10RBT. The Sony had clearer highs, lows and better bass.. However, it was not by much.. My co-worker and I, had to listen to several pieces of music to come to that conclusion. With all that said, we come back to PRICES.. IMO, value-to-money-spent is an important factor.  Yes, the Harman Kardon case is the best! :) The Sony is fully apt-x, and Hi Res Audio, IMO, these are big features. Whereas, the Harman Kardon is apt-x and one HK support staff told me it WAS Hi Res Audio capable, but another one told me he didn't know. So, whether the HK is Hi Res Audio capable is still out..

 

I am almost sure if the prices I paid were available to you, my first recommendation would be the MK2. Without a doubt, it is has killer performance it in its price range. Second recommendation would be the Sony MDR 10RBT, and third would be the Harman Kardon. Now, you noticed I said if those PRICES were available to you. From what you tell me the Harman Kardon BT is going close to $300 and from the place I purchased my MK2 from, they are selling the Sony MDR 10RBT for $269!!!

 

Price has to be a factor in your decision, or if you got deep pockets disregard all of these and go for the highest price Bluetooth headphones out there!! :gs1000smile: 

post #33 of 456
Thread Starter 

I see. Thanks for your information so far. I'm getting closer to a decision now. I called up the AKG distributer in Australia and they are willing to let me sample the K845BT to see if I like it when they can. That should give me a good comparison between the AKG and the Sony's I tested out at the Sony store. Looks like it will come to a shootout between those 2, unless I can get a chance to test some of the other models that have been mentioned here. Many models just aren't available here though).

post #34 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b2 View Post
 

I see. Thanks for your information so far. I'm getting closer to a decision now. I called up the AKG distributer in Australia and they are willing to let me sample the K845BT to see if I like it when they can. That should give me a good comparison between the AKG and the Sony's I tested out at the Sony store. Looks like it will come to a shootout between those 2, unless I can get a chance to test some of the other models that have been mentioned here. Many models just aren't available here though).

 

First off, this thread has really increased my learning curve.. Thanks much..

 

With that said, here is something you should consider with the AKG K845BT..Here is a quote from a review here http://www.whathifi.com/review/akg-k845bt

 

The AKGs might not have the higher-quality aptX version of Bluetooth (they run Bluetooth 3.0 + HS) but they do have the benefit of NFC (near-field communication), which gives you the fuss-free option of pairing them to a compatible device instantly by simply touching the two together.

IMO, To compare aptx to NFC is pointless,.  Apt-x has to do with SQ, whereas, NFC has to do with connections..Just my opinion.

Also, my opinion of any good bluetooth headphones MUST have apt-x stands.This gives the headphones the ability to receive more data, and in turn produce better sound.. Just my newbie opinion. Also, to compare the AKG K845BT to the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2, is a mismatch.  A true comparison would be the AKG K845BT against the Sony MDR 10RBT, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Sony MDR 10RBT comes out on top of that..

IMO again, all good bluetooth headphones should have apt-x and the ability to play Hi Res Audio..

post #35 of 456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cehowardNote3 View Post
 

 

First off, this thread has really increased my learning curve.. Thanks much..

 

With that said, here is something you should consider with the AKG K845BT..Here is a quote from a review here http://www.whathifi.com/review/akg-k845bt

 

The AKGs might not have the higher-quality aptX version of Bluetooth (they run Bluetooth 3.0 + HS) but they do have the benefit of NFC (near-field communication), which gives you the fuss-free option of pairing them to a compatible device instantly by simply touching the two together.

IMO, To compare aptx to NFC is pointless,.  Apt-x has to do with SQ, whereas, NFC has to do with connections..Just my opinion.

Also, my opinion of any good bluetooth headphones MUST have apt-x stands.This gives the headphones the ability to receive more data, and in turn produce better sound.. Just my newbie opinion. Also, to compare the AKG K845BT to the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2, is a mismatch.  A true comparison would be the AKG K845BT against the Sony MDR 10RBT, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Sony MDR 10RBT comes out on top of that..

IMO again, all good bluetooth headphones should have apt-x and the ability to play Hi Res Audio..

Its not that simple really. Apt-X is just a way the data is transferred over bluetooth . It might be able to theorhetically produce better sound and or higher quality sound, but that will only be true for similar quality headphones. If the AKG is a far superior pair of headphones, then it will sound better over regular bluetooth than the Sony will over apt-x as the real limitation in the system will becomes the quality of the headphones. Another example woule be comparing a $300 bluetooth headphones with a $100 wired headphones. The wire can theorhetically transfer more bandwith and higher quality audio than the bluetooth, but the bluetooth model will more than likely sound better due to them being made of better technology. Another slightly different comparison would be a lossy but well recorded 320kbps mp3 sounding better than a poorly recorded flac file. The flac file is theorhetically better and has a higher bitrate, but the system is only as good as the lowest common denominator and in this case it is the quality of the recording.

 

In many cases terms like apt-x and hi res audio or other terms of the sort are used as marketing tools. Sure they will make a difference when comparing the same headphones to their standard bluetooth mode (just like how bluetooth headphones often sound better when connected with a wire), but they may not sound as good as a better quality pair though the terms will be used by salespeople or the company to try and justify that they are. I'm not saying this will be the case with the AKG and Sony headphones, but you can't assume the Sony will be better than the AKG purely because of apt-x. The AKG is actually more expensive here in Australia, though in America they seem to be in a similar price range. Really need to test them both out properly to know for sure.

 

The only reviews that I have seen online where people have tried both are on Amazon and they all seem to indicate that the AKG is the superior headphones, though the Sony is more confortable. I'm not sure if the purchasers were comparing both models in plain bluetooth mode or the Sony in apt-x vs the AKG in standard. I guess that is something I will have to try myself when I get the chance.

 

http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Bluetooth-Over-Ear-Headphones-Black/product-reviews/B00H00OG7G/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_summary?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=byRankDescending


Edited by n00b2 - 3/26/14 at 9:23am
post #36 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b2 View Post
 

Its not that simple really. Apt-X is just a way the data is transferred over bluetooth . It might be able to theorhetically produce better sound and or higher quality sound, but that will only be true for similar quality headphones. If the AKG is a far superior pair of headphones, then it will sound better over regular bluetooth than the Sony will over apt-x as the real limitation in the system will becomes the quality of the headphones. Another example woule be comparing a $300 bluetooth headphones with a $100 wired headphones. The wire can theorhetically transfer more bandwith and higher quality audio than the bluetooth, but the bluetooth model will more than likely sound better due to them being made of better technology. Another slightly different comparison would be a lossy but well recorded 320kbps mp3 sounding better than a poorly recorded flac file. The flac file is theorhetically better and has a higher bitrate, but the system is only as good as the lowest common denominator and in this case it is the quality of the recording.

 

In many cases terms like apt-x and hi res audio or other terms of the sort are used as marketing tools. Sure they will make a difference when comparing the same headphones to their standard bluetooth mode (just like how bluetooth headphones often sound better when connected with a wire), but they may not sound as good as a better quality pair though the terms will be used by salespeople or the company to try and justify that they are. I'm not saying this will be the case with the AKG and Sony headphones, but you can't assume the Sony will be better than the AKG purely because of apt-x. The AKG is actually more expensive here in Australia, though in America they seem to be in a similar price range. Really need to test them both out properly to know for sure.

 

The only reviews that I have seen online where people have tried both are on Amazon and they all seem to indicate that the AKG is the superior headphones, though the Sony is more confortable. I'm not sure if the purchasers were comparing both models in plain bluetooth mode or the Sony in apt-x vs the AKG in standard. I guess that is something I will have to try myself when I get the chance.

 

http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Bluetooth-Over-Ear-Headphones-Black/product-reviews/B00H00OG7G/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_summary?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=byRankDescending

 

n00b2, you are more advanced then I am with headphones. However, I might differ from your opinon on the apt-x and Hi Res Audio being used as marketing tools. I could be wrong, but just with aptx, I am noticing the reviews are saying that if you have high-end-aptx device as a source, you will be getting better sound with aptx headphones. In addition, I am noticing all the big boys are including apt-x  in their bluetooth phones. On the Hi Res Audio, the experts are really into that Hi Res Audio. That Hi Res Audio medium requires special devices, and mostly only used by die-in-the-wool-audiophiles, now I could be wrong.. Back to your comparison, and we both do want you to get the best sounding headphones for your money, and you want bluetooth. IMO, the biggest thing out there to improve bluetooth SQ is apt-x..Correct me if I am wrong on that....

 

I seen on youtube an comaparison between Bluedio R+ headphones which supposed to have apt-x, but really didn't up against something at half the price, the Creative Labs WP-350 which has apt-x..The Creative Labs WP-350 came out with better sound...Go figure..:D 

 

When you go to the Sony store,  tell them about your experience with their display model. Also, at the Sony store, see if you can also listen to the Sony MDR 10RBT too..And it would be perfect if you could bring the AKG with you..IMO, getting back to back experiences gives up a better comparision.

 

Again, I really enjoy this thread and I am learning a lot.. BTW, and about 3 or 4 of my coworkers jumped on that $97 Harman Kardon BT deal..

 

EDIT:

n00b2, you know what I think what would be a real fight/battle?  Comparing the Parrot Zik, the Sennheiser MM 550-X and the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2


Edited by cehowardNote3 - 3/26/14 at 12:01pm
post #37 of 456
Thread Starter 
I'm not saying apt-x and hi res audio are marketing tools. If you are comparing the same headphones or similar headphones over standard Bluetooth the apt-x makes a huge difference. I'm saying that things things like that can be used as marketing tools when a comparison comes against a higher quality headphones. They'll use the lack of those features in the higher quality headphones to justify why the poorer one is better when in reality that isn't the case.

High resolution audio is also something that can make a huge difference but I doubt it is something that is going to be too beneficial in this instance. Hi res audio Files are massive due to quality. Massive files are not something I would play very often with portable devices and headphones. Also did Sony tell you whether the hi res capability was over wired or Bluetooth mode? I'll be very surprised if Bluetooth can deliver that level of quality just yet.

Regarding the comparison at hand, apt-x is certainly a big feature but it is not the only thing that will impact sound quality. The weakest link in the system will be the biggest limiter on sound quality. It might be the Bluetooth or it might be the headphones themselves. The AKG and Sony are however both in roughly the same price bracket which makes it very difficult to determine which way it will go. Reviews for both have been quite good. The only comparisons have been on Amazon which seem to indicate the AKG is the better sounding headphones though I'm not sure how many of those reviewscan be considered objective.
Edited by n00b2 - 3/26/14 at 5:30pm
post #38 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b2 View Post

I'm not saying apt-x and hi res audio are marketing tools. If you are comparing the same headphones or similar headphones over standard Bluetooth the apt-x makes a huge difference. I'm saying that things things like that can be used as marketing tools when a comparison comes against a higher quality headphones. They'll use the lack of those features in the higher quality headphones to justify why the poorer one is better when in reality that isn't the case.

High resolution audio is also something that can make a huge difference but I doubt it is something that is going to be too beneficial in this instance. Hi res audio Files are massive due to quality. Massive files are not something I would play very often with portable devices and headphones. Also did Sony tell you whether the hi res capability was over wired or Bluetooth mode? I'll be very surprised if Bluetooth can deliver that level of quality just yet.

Regarding the comparison at hand, apt-x is certainly a big feature but it is not the only thing that will impact sound quality. The weakest link in the system will be the biggest limiter on sound quality. It might be the Bluetooth or it might be the headphones themselves. The AKG and Sony are however both in roughly the same price bracket which makes it very difficult to determine which way it will go. Reviews for both have been quite good. The only comparisons have been on Amazon which seem to indicate the AKG is the better sounding headphones though I'm not sure how many of those reviewscan be considered objective.

 

APT-X is only useful if you are using CD-Quality FLAC files as a source.  If not, the BT already has profiles for AAC, MP3, etc (all the popular formats), but they have to be supported.  If they are supported, you will not get a loss of quality from the file source.  What makes the bigger difference is the internal DAC and AMP combination that is used.  Most of the time, the actual change in sound you hear between a wired headphone and a wireless one is due to output impedance differences between the AMPs... 

post #39 of 456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post
 

 

APT-X is only useful if you are using CD-Quality FLAC files as a source.  If not, the BT already has profiles for AAC, MP3, etc (all the popular formats), but they have to be supported.  If they are supported, you will not get a loss of quality from the file source.  What makes the bigger difference is the internal DAC and AMP combination that is used.  Most of the time, the actual change in sound you hear between a wired headphone and a wireless one is due to output impedance differences between the AMPs...

Thats true. Even for FLAC files, I imagine that the internal circuitry would have a larger role on the sound quality than the bluetooth format when it gets to this level of headphones. Cehoward you can probably test this out yourself since you have 3 bluetooth heasphones. Listen to the 10RBT (or HK BT) through apt-x for a bit, then listen to the 1RBT with apt-x turned off or using a device that doesn't support it. Listen to both mp3 files and flac files if you can. If you try this, let me know which one you think sounds better: the 10RBT over apt-x or the 1RBT over regular bluetooth. My suspicion is that the 1RBT will still sound better but can't be sure without testing it out.

post #40 of 456

n00b2 and tinyman392, that's some great input you two are posting, and a lot of those things I didn't know..I am going to see if can hear the difference between aptx and non-aptx.

 

Also,; I didn't know you have to have flac or special files/formats to get the benefit of aptx. My thinking was aptx transmitted or pushes 320 something oppose to non-apts transmitting or pushing 180something as long as the two devices support it. 

 

My take on the aptx is that I am noticing that big boys bluetooth headphones have it. Also, Sony with its MDR 1RBT, it had to come out with the 1RBT MK2 and include the aptx. Those clues gave me the impression that aptx is a big plus with bluetooth headphones.. BTW, one of the wires on the Harman Kardon was longer than the other one, and it was hanging out, unsightly to me. I tried to push it back in the headband or the can so it could be flush like the other one. Wouldn't happen. No matter, Harman Karman sent me a free shipping label to return them, and when they get them they will send me another pair..

post #41 of 456

If it helps, I have the Sony MDR1RBT... They're not great. I hear the odd hiccup with my SGS4 or Galaxy Player... And the soundstage is horrendous. This is with 320K mp3s or FLAC. GO in-ear and grab the bluebuds X with comply tips ;) you'll be blown away

post #42 of 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by batteraziiz View Post 
 

If it helps, I have the Sony MDR1RBT... They're not great. I hear the odd hiccup with my SGS4 or Galaxy Player... And the soundstage is horrendous. This is with 320K mp3s or FLAC. GO in-ear and grab the bluebuds X with comply tips ;) you'll be blown away

First, great input... 

 

Few questions, we were on the topic of aptx, how good or important it is.. Correct me if I am wrong, the Sony MDR1RBT does not have aptx!

post #43 of 456
Thread Starter 
The main advantage of apt-x is that it can deliver lossless audio with their compression methods. This is where they say apt-x can deliver CD like quality audio over Bluetooth (1411 kbps). This is of course only true if the files you are playing are also at CD quality such as flac or wav files. If you are playing lossy mp3s then aptx isn't going to improve the sound quality to CD level. Standard Bluetooth has bandwidth restrictions but it has plenty of bandwidth to play 320kbps mp3. There might be a slight improvement in playing those over aptx due to the aptx streaming technology being better but I would suspect that any difference would be minimal. If you test both methods using a 320kbps mp3 and a flac file (or CD)
post #44 of 456
Thread Starter 
@batteraziis I haven't really looked at in ear models. Have had too many issues with them falling out. How did you find the fit with those earphones?
post #45 of 456

The fit wasn't great until I kicked in for the comply tips. Now they never fall out, and somehow Jaybird perfected bluetooth audio. My FLAC sounds like FLAC, un-corded. YMMV

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