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[Multi-Review] Hifiman HM901, Fiio X5, Sony ZX1, Hisound Studio 3rd Anv, iPhone 4 - Page 17

post #241 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post
 

You might want to take a look at DX90. Killer dual dac with line out, coax out and apparently very strong amp section too, if you want to treat lightly sometimes.

I am actually looking at it rather seriously... my W1000x sounds really wonderful with the hm801s PCM based dac chip... but I've been useing it SE for the last year and I'm a guy who owns all balanced amps, that said, I might be able to get the best of both wordles once I balance it, as all my of amps sound MUCH better out of their balanced outputs. If the W1000x out of my Audio GD 10ES2s balance out sounds a little more dull bodied that than SE out... I may seriously consider the DX90, as both utilize the ESS Sabre Dacs

 

BUT if it ain't broke don't fix it right ;3 but still though I just might

 

and let me just say this whole idea of a DAP having a Coax out... pisses me off... I Paid $500 for my DAP... it's pretty much a TRANSPORT DEVICE that I feed into another DAC and AMP! for which I would just rather buy a nice DAP with a nicer DAC implimentation and keep my stack at 2 high

 

BUT that's what makes us all so great! We like and value different things, in all honesty I could have used the X5 Coax out into my Hm801 and then line out into my Pb2 lawl, for one epicly HUGE stack xD 

post #242 of 324
Thread Starter 

I figured this belongs here too...kinda:

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post
 

LOL, I just got my Geek Out 450 today.

 

This <$150 device is better than the HM901 and ZX1 by FAR. When I first turned it on, I thought I had the crossfeed on, but it wasn't. Ha! 

 

Because of the awesome soundstage, I'm hearing details fleshed out in ways I haven't before. Textures are popping out and smacking me in the face in ways I didn't think possible.

 

I used to LOL at people who spent megabucks on DACs, but if this is just a trickle down of their DaVinci...holy crap. No, holy s*** (excuse my french).

 

I've been pissed off at the length of the wait, and I've been planning to sell the Geek once I got it...but I had a change of mind within the first few minutes.

 

I think I've permanently found my desktop setup, all in the housing the size of a matchbox.

 

LOL!

 
post #243 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post
 

I figured this belongs here too...kinda:

 

 

Oh hey here's this from the Geek Amazon Add

 

Oh hey here's this from the Geek Amazon Add

 

"Geek Out 450's "3D Awesomifier" uses proprietary 3D audio technology that emulates the way your ears hear."

 

yea it's using DSP so... 

or are you driving your HD 800 with uhhh 450mW of power [less actually as that figure is most likely into a 32ohm load] seriously Eke, 

 

But long story short, there are two paths to audiophile... ism. Both are worth while and both should be recommend as option to explore to our new members 

 

The old tried and true method! HARDWARE get the best stuff and enjoy, OR the new method SOFTWARE get top quality results without spending a lot of MONEY. Both are worth while and most people usually wind up being Purists  in that they'd rather have epic hard ware or idealists who'd rather wind up having some pretty awesome DSP software, so as they say Live and let live. Don't laugh at people who's view are different from yours... it makes you sound ignorant which in turn discredits what ever point your trying to make 

post #244 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
 

Oh hey here's this from the Geek Amazon Add

 

Oh hey here's this from the Geek Amazon Add

 

"Geek Out 450's "3D Awesomifier" uses proprietary 3D audio technology that emulates the way your ears hear."

 

yea it's using DSP so... 

or are you driving your HD 800 with uhhh 450mW of power [less actually as that figure is most likely into a 32ohm load] seriously Eke, 

 

But long story short, there are two paths to audiophile... ism. Both are worth while and both should be recommend as option to explore to our new members 

 

The old tried and true method! HARDWARE get the best stuff and enjoy, OR the new method SOFTWARE get top quality results without spending a lot of MONEY. Both are worth while and most people usually wind up being Purists  in that they'd rather have epic hard ware or idealists who'd rather wind up having some pretty awesome DSP software, so as they say Live and let live. Don't laugh at people who's view are different from yours... it makes you sound ignorant which in turn discredits what ever point your trying to make 

 

Um - what are you on?

 

Eke wasn't laughing at anyone.  He was stating his opinion that for him the Geek Out is better than the other DAPs he mentioned.

 

Why the personal attack?

post #245 of 324

Eke - thoughts on the Geek Out vs Studio V3 (and yes I know ones a DAP, and ones a DAC/amp).  How do the sonics compare?

post #246 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

 

Um - what are you on?

 

Eke wasn't laughing at anyone.  He was stating his opinion that for him the Geek Out is better than the other DAPs he mentioned.

 

Why the personal attack?

WELL as the black sheep of head fi the post reads a little rudely 

Quote:

LOL, I just got my Geek Out 450 today.

 

This <$150 device is better than the HM901 and ZX1 by FAR. When I first turned it on, I thought I had the crossfeed on, but it wasn't. Ha! 

 

Because of the awesome soundstage, I'm hearing details fleshed out in ways I haven't before. Textures are popping out and smacking me in the face in ways I didn't think possible.

 

I used to LOL at people who spent megabucks on DACs, but if this is just a trickle down of their DaVinci...holy crap. No, holy s*** (excuse my french).

So yea I look to my right at my GIANT Amp dac, and the match Box comment just feels directed at those who like me have spent some SERIOUS cash on our GIANT gear and I'm feeling a little attacked <3 

 

 so I'm just sharing my thoughts with him ^^... then again I get attacked personally here on head fi a lot so I guess I've gotten used to it so much that I've started doing it my self...hmm still It's once again 5:50 am and I've been up almost 16 hours now q.Q' this should fall under one of my SUPER late night and omg rude posts...

 

BACK on topic, reports on the DX90 are pretty good, and I'm looking forward to your thoughts on the new Beyer Dac/Amp 


Edited by Mshenay - 5/8/14 at 2:54am
post #247 of 324

Yep - I'm pretty keen to see what the A200p will do.  I like the form factor - it's just a pity that the 30 pin cables aren't ready yet (gen 4 iPhone).

 

On the posts above ......

 

My advice - don't worry about what anyone thinks of your gear, and don't get too invested in it.  Heck - I love my HD700 and you've seen the way they are treated around here :D.  I don't care.  I like them - that's all that matters.

 

Eke's like me - he's objectively questioning gear - and by objectively, I mean properly level matching, blind testing, and trying to eliminate as much placebo as possible.  When you do that - and forget about price - some things change.  I know it has for me.  I wish more people could do that, and reply with honesty.  I do think there is a lot of audiophoolery on the boards - and I wish some of the real myths could be exposed once and for all. But it's not going to happen any time soon.  So sometime we just have to live and let live.

 

I love the hobby, and above anything, I love my music.  I also love the interaction on these forums.  But at the end of the day - it's still a hobby, and ultimately there are far more things in life that hold more importance.

 

Just respect that everyone has a point of view.  Debate the point - and if people disagree - state your opinion and walk away.  If everyone would just appreciate that the universe does not revolve around them - then our world would be a much more serene place ;) 

post #248 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

Yep - I'm pretty keen to see what the A200p will do.  I like the form factor - it's just a pity that the 30 pin cables aren't ready yet (gen 4 iPhone).

 

On the posts above ......

 

My advice - don't worry about what anyone thinks of your gear, and don't get too invested in it.  Heck - I love my HD700 and you've seen the way they are treated around here :D.  I don't care.  I like them - that's all that matters.

 

Eke's like me - he's objectively questioning gear - and by objectively, I mean properly level matching, blind testing, and trying to eliminate as much placebo as possible.  When you do that - and forget about price - some things change.  I know it has for me.  I wish more people could do that, and reply with honesty.  I do think there is a lot of audiophoolery on the boards - and I wish some of the real myths could be exposed once and for all. But it's not going to happen any time soon.  So sometime we just have to live and let live.

 

I love the hobby, and above anything, I love my music.  I also love the interaction on these forums.  But at the end of the day - it's still a hobby, and ultimately there are far more things in life that hold more importance.

 

Just respect that everyone has a point of view.  Debate the point - and if people disagree - state your opinion and walk away.  If everyone would just appreciate that the universe does not revolve around them - then our world would be a much more serene place ;) 

Agreed, you know from my time with you I've starting doing a lot more objective measurements,

Warning: Night Owl Rant (Click to show)

still I'd like to see the data for his findings on the... you know what... I honestly don't care... I just remember I read an article on the Schiit Happend thread... Jason talking about gear that measures HORRIFICALLY but sounds amazing. Point being objective data is great but it doesn't compare to just listening to it

 

still I'd like to see the objective data for the Geek 450 and the hm901... in all honesty I have my doubts he drove his HD 800 out of that little thing, which mind you pushes what 450mw into most likely a 32 ohm load, and if not his HD 800 then what is he using as a refrance? Because I would think with TOTL headphones the hm901 should be on par with if not a step above the Geek 450, both companies have made a great product and are marketing to different people, but what I love about Hifiman is Dr.Fang, dude seems like the total mad scientist but more importantly they are charging rather aggressivly forward, and rightly so as they are making some serious headway and really changing the audio game! For Eke to rather non chantly claim that this little device made by a group of dedicated audio engineers can out perform  Hifimans Flag Ship DAP is a little... well it's a little ignorant to say, let's take into consideration that if the Geek 450 is using DSP then yea chances are the sound stage is better, but that's an un fair comparision. Comparing hardware to software. 

 

Not to mention there are others who seem to be taking his claims at face value, I'll re itterate this here. I bought the Mad Dog based on hype and rather bloated and un supported claims... I was rather disappointed by it, so if your going to as far as claiming a rather modesty priced and designed amp/dac is better than a TOTL DAP you'd better have some concrete evidance, I was one of those guys who took impression at face value... I got screwed and I was pretty up set by it. So forgive me for getting touchy when any one posts a rather bold statement. And this thread is starting to get long and draw in new readers, so it's gaining credibility. There for I think we'd better do our best to keep the claims and opinons we express as accurate as possible. I'd hate for some one who's thinking of getting a Hifiman Player, pass up a chance to score a used one because he wants to first try something in a couple price classes lower. 

 

Going back to my Mad Dog debacle, I missed a couple of really GREAT deals on some great cans in the for sale threads here because I just HAD to have a Mad Dog

 

So yea... you want to deThrone a TOTL player, you'd better make sure your backing your word up! Cuz those kinds of bloated and vague statements waste peoples time and money :[

 

and it's 7:32 am, I've been on my pc WAY to long... I'm going to log off. And Eke feel free to send me some hate mail via Pm if you'd like xD. I need a custom title refering to me as Head Fi's punching bag or something lol, my point being I apologize for being rash, I'm some what cranky and I'm more than likely making assumptions of you that aren't 100% true... but either way do forgive me and do back up your rather out landish claims <3 for a guy whos been doing all his demos by

 

Matching DB lvl by ear [going back to the first post]

and using an IEM to refrance [ a rather nice one so I can't really say anything there] 

 

EIther way :D I'd just like to see some more support for Eke's claim, espicially the latest one that the Geek 450 is hands above the HM901 with his  Aurisonics ASG-2, there's a small part of me thinking my HE 4 would sound a heck of a lot better out of my hm801 and ibasso Pb2 than the Geek 450... but again circumstances. the  Aurisonics ASG-2 is not the HE 4, so for an iem user, the Geek 450 may honestly be a TOTAL Steal, but when you make a claim that something so inexpensive is SO much better than something SO expensive, again when you aim to dethrone, the more detail the better

 

On that note, again feel free to punch me in the face or what ever lol, as I've been up to long and being honest with a guy I feel can take it, and grow from it. As Brooko is pretty brutally honest with me, and I'm the better for it, so you know I feel I ought to share the love... and with that it is time for SLEEP 

On a side note, I though of this the other day at work, I think as people we listen differently. I think once I started getting into balanced amps and Planars... how I listened differed. The BIGGEST complaint I have about my hm 801 and D2k for heavy metal is how it feels against my ears, you know. What I love about the D2k is how it feels, I can feel the bass agains't the lower part of my neck. ANd going on to the differances between my crummy little UAC 202 Dac and my Freaking Audio GD nfb10ES2 isn't so much how the sound, cuz truthfully it sounds pretty simmilar, but it's the tactile presentation of the sound that changes SO much between the two, music just doesn't feel the same when comparing the two, going back to the hm801. It REALLY got just how SLOW it was this weekened, enjoying the lighting quick tactile presenation of my D2k out of my NFB10ES2, I wondered if the HM801 and pb2 could compare... it didn't the hm801 was truthfully sluggish! It lacked the quick tactile authority the NFB 10ES2 gave the D2k, 

 

and I wonder, Eke's a musican... I wonder if he listens to sound differently than I do? [not saying who has better hearing] but we might be looking for different things audibly, I for example have a thing mechanical noises, and the fan in my room... I can hear or rather I should say feel and hear the differances in the sound it makes depending on what's in front of it, there's a wooden case about a foot from my head that has holes in it, if my fan's faceing the wrong angle it freaking reverbs again'st through those stupid holes in the wood and drives me insane... but onto that... would Eke hear that... or rather would he care to hear it? I'm sure as a muscian he can identify tempo pitch and most likely the measurement the music he is listening to is in, which might change the importantance he places on the little taticle notes?

 

My point being, is I wonder if he listens differently than I do, and if that's why we have such strongly differing opinions. The sounds I find enjoyable and exiciting to hear, he may find distracting and un pleasent or vice versa, I just guess I wonder why we [I'm a bass player and the son of a well trained family of Classical Guitarists] hear these two devices so differently [both as muscians and music lovers] , for example I was listening to some Live music the other day, and it sounded horriblely cramped and over saturated to my ears, well I pulled up the spectrogram and lo and behold it was over saturated, a lot of white noise a lot of DENSE white noise! [got another album and it was much quiter and better spaced out] but I've done like numerous ABX testing before, and I'm to the point where I've identified the differances between lame mp3s and flacs so mny times I can dream about it, but the same thing exist with masterings, two albums can sound very different... I've had it happen a lot recently. Hearing the same song on a different album and... it's different. There's more or less of what I enjoyed, but again going back to my main point I've sunk some cash into my rig to the point where I can hear those obnixous differances pretty quickly and I enjoy it. HEaring the differances, every little thing that makes even the same song recoded at a different time and place different? 

 

So I wonder, is it because I enjoy finding those little mechnical quirks or colorations [or lack there of] that I'm more readily able to discern the differances between the HM801 and the Fiio X5? Maybe for Eke, he's so swept into the music he's listening to his mind doesn't bother with hearing those littler details [why should it you know, he's enjoy his music] 


Edited by Mshenay - 5/8/14 at 4:58am
post #249 of 324
3D Awesomifier


i think that says it al, this thread is hilarious
post #250 of 324
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
 

 

 

I didn't have the DSP on, as I stated. I thought it was on, because of the ridiculousness I was hearing, but it wasn't.

 

2. I haven't heard a HD800 in almost a year. I use iems almost exclusively, with the exception of a HD600.

 

3. Don't get me started on the power debate lol.

 

4. I'm a pharmacist (almost). A trained scientist with biology and chemistry degrees, plus almost done with a Doctorate of Pharmacy. I know how to be objective. I've had enough classes on Research and Development to know how to settle down and observe without letting any biases interfere with my data. I'm also rather good at setting up experiments.

 

5. On top of all that, my ears are 21 years young. They still work like the day I was born, and I can hear up to 22 khz.

 

6. This is the big one. I've never once said that there is nooo difference between DAPs. What I've said is that the difference between the difference between the bottom and the top of the DAP world is so incredibly small, and statistically insignificant compared to that which exists for headphones, that I think most of them are a PROFOUND waste of money if SQ improvement is what you're after.

 

 You could have a Sony XBA-3, then spend $1000 on a HM901 to get the best of it...when simply the Clip+ and a Sony XBA-H3 would knock the crap out of it. This is the basis of my statement. There is no "night and day" in my experience with the DAP world. I've had so many people tell me that they agree with me privately. One guy is thinking of returning the uber dap he just bought for his DX90. Such is the state of affairs, and I'm supposed to agree with it?

post #251 of 324
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KT66 View Post

3D Awesomifier


i think that says it al, this thread is hilarious

 

 

It would appear reading comprehension is not a strong feature set of many members here:

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post
 

LOL, I just got my Geek Out 450 today.

 

This <$150 device is better than the HM901 and ZX1 by FAR. When I first turned it on, I thought I had the crossfeed on, but it wasn't. Ha! 

 

Because of the awesome soundstage, I'm hearing details fleshed out in ways I haven't before. Textures are popping out and smacking me in the face in ways I didn't think possible.

 

I used to LOL at people who spent megabucks on DACs, but if this is just a trickle down of their DaVinci...holy crap. No, holy s*** (excuse my french).

 

I've been pissed off at the length of the wait, and I've been planning to sell the Geek once I got it...but I had a change of mind within the first few minutes.

 

I think I've permanently found my desktop setup, all in the housing the size of a matchbox.

 

LOL!

 

 

 

 

Turning on the "3D awesomifier" produces way too much hiss and noise with my gear. It pops loudly when turned on and off as well. I've yet to use it for more than 10 seconds.


Edited by eke2k6 - 5/8/14 at 7:25am
post #252 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post
 

 

I didn't have the DSP on, as I stated. I thought it was on, because of the ridiculousness I was hearing, but it wasn't.

 

2. I haven't heard a HD800 in almost a year. I use iems almost exclusively, with the exception of a HD600.

 

3. Don't get me started on the power debate lol.

 

4. I'm a pharmacist (almost). A trained scientist with biology and chemistry degrees, plus almost done with a Doctorate of Pharmacy. I know how to be objective. I've had enough classes on Research and Development to know how to settle down and observe without letting any biases interfere with my data. I'm also rather good at setting up experiments.

 

5. On top of all that, my ears are 21 years young. They still work like the day I was born, and I can hear up to 22 khz.

 

6. This is the big one. I've never once said that there is nooo difference between DAPs. What I've said is that the difference between the difference between the bottom and the top of the DAP world is so incredibly small, and statistically insignificant compared to that which exists for headphones, that I think most of them are a PROFOUND waste of money if SQ improvement is what you're after.

 

 You could have a Sony XBA-3, then spend $1000 on a HM901 to get the best of it...when simply the Clip+ and a Sony XBA-H3 would knock the crap out of it. This is the basis of my statement. There is no "night and day" in my experience with the DAP world. I've had so many people tell me that they agree with me privately. One guy is thinking of returning the uber dap he just bought for his DX90. Such is the state of affairs, and I'm supposed to agree with it?

There is never a night and day differance, with maybe the exception of headphone out of Clip vs feedin an DX90 into a decent amp

 

Non the less, my only question is what is the differance between the two of us? I'm happy with the money I paid for my Audio GD dac as well as my hm801, same goes for the Pb2, I guess maybe I value the minor improvements in audio over others

 

and on the power debate, it's not that MORE POWER IS BETTER, it's that there seems to be a trend in that higher powered amps tend to have less distortion and an overall cleaner sound, we assume this due to the fact that the designer has to go out of his way to design the ciduit to work optimally up to the maximum power output they recommend. Is it that 6w sounds better than 1, not always it's more likely the 6w pc amp has a better design and lower distortion than the 1W amp, there's a post about it some where else if your curious me and a couple other guys came to an agreement. Either way, I value those little improvement, those little notes in decay and sound stage. 

 

Now on to the DX90, I am hearing a lot about it! I'm kinda of curious :3, but more importantly this is my hobby when I can afford to I'd like to see what the differance is. It's why I've always upgraded everything, get a better dac amp get better headphones, and thus far I've enjoyed mah journey. Although to be completely honest, I think I could be END game with my Audio GD NFB10ES2 and HE 4, which cost me like $700, for a killer Dac/Amp combo! 

post #253 of 324
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
 

There is never a night and day differance, with maybe the exception of headphone out of Clip vs feedin an DX90 into a decent amp

 

Non the less, my only question is what is the differance between the two of us? I'm happy with the money I paid for my Audio GD dac as well as my hm801, same goes for the Pb2, I guess maybe I value the minor improvements in audio over others

 

and on the power debate, it's not that MORE POWER IS BETTER, it's that there seems to be a trend in that higher powered amps tend to have less distortion and an overall cleaner sound, we assume this due to the fact that the designer has to go out of his way to design the ciduit to work optimally up to the maximum power output they recommend. Is it that 6w sounds better than 1, not always it's more likely the 6w pc amp has a better design and lower distortion than the 1W amp, there's a post about it some where else if your curious me and a couple other guys came to an agreement. Either way, I value those little improvement, those little notes in decay and sound stage. 

 

Now on to the DX90, I am hearing a lot about it! I'm kinda of curious :3, but more importantly this is my hobby when I can afford to I'd like to see what the differance is. It's why I've always upgraded everything, get a better dac amp get better headphones, and thus far I've enjoyed mah journey. Although to be completely honest, I think I could be END game with my Audio GD NFB10ES2 and HE 4, which cost me like $700, for a killer Dac/Amp combo! 

 

 

This is why I think the whole DAP thing is silly.

 

There is a set of impressions on Currawong's own DAP review thread from Bluebear, in which he compares the DX90, Calyx, AK120, AK240. Long story short, he thinks the DX90 is only about 90% of the AK120. Extrapolating, there are those who think the AK120 is not nearly worth anything close to its asking price, and is a step back from the AK100. There are some who think the Hm901 is the only match for the AK240. Then I got a PM this morning from a person who thinks the DX90 stand toe to toe with the AK240, and even outdoes it in certain areas. Who am I supposed to believe?

 

What it all boils down to, IMO, is these tiny changes in signature, volume levels, and the huge part one's brain plays in warping what you see or hear. You said it yourself, you place value on those tiny note changes. What if the slightly heftier sound you prefer is total trash to someone else? How do you know anything about the DX90 when you haven't even heard it for yourself? Your brain is already preparing to fall in love with it so, in a world where it's difficult to pin down anything in a system that has such minute differences that can be greatly affected by any number of factors, how can it not? 

 

I hear so many buzzwords thrown around here, but I've had the opportunity to meet people who have let me hear a great variety of gear on my own time, with my own music. My current findings, through lots of experimentation with DAPs, is that they're a great waste of time and money that could be spent fulfilling audio enjoyment in other ways.

 

I'll buy a 128gb gb card and stuff it in my clip+. Then I'll buy all the music I want from HDTracks, convert them to MP3 320, and store tens of thousands of tracks on that single micro sd card. 

 

I can't wait for someone to invent teleportation, so we can have instant head-fi meets and not have useless internet arguments.

post #254 of 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post
 

 

 

This is why I think the whole DAP thing is silly.

 

 

Just curious eke, did you only use your asg-2 iem with your DAP testing?

post #255 of 324
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachchen1996 View Post
 

 

Just curious eke, did you only use your asg-2 iem with your DAP testing?

 

Nope. I had a few other IEMs, but the ASG-2 is the most resolving.

 

The other ones I used are the Ety HF5, ER4S (at a later date), and GR07 bass edition.


Edited by eke2k6 - 5/8/14 at 11:48am
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