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How to find a low priced Chinese version of any super expensive DAC? - Page 7

post #91 of 161

Audio-gd and AUNE both are quite reputable brand names from China. But still there are many other experienced music and electronic fanatics working night and day to satisfy their dreams. 

post #92 of 161

sorry for that short post..was feeling sleepy then :P

 

if i have 500 to 600 bucks...the audiogd dac/amp sounds like a great bang for the money. 

i ended up with the nfb10.32..a balanced dac+amp with 9filters..blablabla all the techqie stuff i dun quite understand..

but sounded like an over engineered pc of schiit.

 

FIrst impression vs my old dac/s,,,the soundstage was glaringly TALLer..DEEPer..CLEARer. 

And the sound was very slightly tilted to the warm side of neutral, v nice to my ears...nothing brittle or cold.

I proceeded to sell off my LYR and LittleDot Mk4se hence, cos i tot i dun need them since this Audiogd sounded so "tubelike"

as in a robust agile tube type of sound.  ( i mean there are lots of kind of tubesound..!!?! )

 

I could use it as a pure dac...and connect it to my latest tube amps..( sigh i bought more tube amps..arrghhh )

or just use it as a balanced amp when i am in the mood for BALANCEd flavor. 

 

Anyway...audiogd has come up with newer variations in the 500bucks range...

i am very confident whoever is in that company...has got a pair of very good ears.

 

Thats the story for 500bucks...

 

and if u have 1000 or more to burn...then by all means check out  the top range...

i havent got that bundle to burn yet. :P

post #93 of 161
Thread Starter 

Well, this http://www.ebay.com/itm/121284312100?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 came today. It took me like 15 minutes to find the driver on the internet, and I had to order a power supply ($5) and USB cable, but it's working and it's not worse than my laptop headphone jack (Realtek 269 DAC). I'm not sure if it's better but not a total waste of money.

 

Edit 1: OK it's definitely brighter than my laptop DAC, which I like, but it's unusually bright. I think it's more detailed too although I'm not sure. It does a fantastic job with female vocals. It sounds sort of like my note 2's wolfson DAC, but slightly better.

 

Edit 2: As I relisten to songs on this DAC, I like it. Good upgrade. The only downside is that it extends quite high on the HD800 and makes them sound brighter than did my laptop jack, which some might not like. It has bass too but its treble is emphasized. I just checked and warmer music (country) doesn't sound super bright, so it's probably not distorting the music, but it is bright. Not sure if this is a sign of a good quality DAC or a bad DAC.

 

Edit 3: OK the brightness is kind of getting to me and I wonder if I don't have the right driver. I'm going to keep searching.

 

Edit4: This is the correct driver,http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=35324113465 (the baidu link on the third line), and after using an amplifier, the brightness became tolerable. So the amp on this is of no use and it needs a separate amp. But overall it's really good and detailed. For example, I heard more detail in this video than ever before https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5X9oUNSYyE (including the detailed background music being played by the second guy)

 

Edit5: One thing I can confirm is that this DAC doesn't have any line noise or any other signs of a product that is clearly engineered poorly.

 

Edit 6: This is pretty good, detailed and has good imaging/spatials for classical music. But I wish the treble were toned down just slightly. I now understand why some people think the HD800 is too bright.

 

Edit 7: OK I don't think there is any doubt that this is the most detailed DAC I have ever heard. I'm hearing background stuff in songs in a clear manner that I have never heard before from the other DACs. I'm not sure if this is a sign of its quality or simply a consequence of its brightness (I heard bright systems push out more detail than do warm systems). But any way this is a detail monster.

 

Edit 8: Well, after getting used to the brightness, I am satisfied with this purchase. It might be my imagination, but I sense more range, more detail and just an overall better listening experience out of this new DAC when listening to classical and other treble focused music. Even if it is just my imagination, it is no worse than what I had before. It was definitely worth $80.

 

Edit 9: OK, irrefutable and objective proof that this is a quality DAC. If you do this test http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-iCZElJ8m0 on 720p, on the hd800, with my laptop's DAC I don't hear anything until like 29 hz. On my cell phone's DAC I hear something at like 26 hz. But on this new Chinese DAC, I hear bass vibration immediately at 21 hz.


Edited by ag8908 - 3/25/14 at 3:57pm
post #94 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post
 

 

Edit4: This is the correct driver,http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=35324113465 (the baidu link on the third line), and after using an amplifier, the brightness became tolerable. So the amp on this is of no use and it needs a separate amp. But overall it's really good and detailed. For example, I heard more detail in this video than ever before https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5X9oUNSYyE (including the detailed background music being played by the second guy)

The link is for the 1.61 driver which is several generations back from Thesycon. They refer to it as the latest 2.19 driver but it isn't. Once you unpack it you can read the setup file with notepad (which I did). It gives the version as 1.61.  You surprised me, I thought you were going to order the more expensive board. Honestly with an HD800 that dac is not going to get you where your trying to go.

post #95 of 161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chodi View Post
 

The link is for the 1.61 driver which is several generations back from Thesycon. They refer to it as the latest 2.19 driver but it isn't. Once you unpack it you can read the setup file with notepad (which I did). It gives the version as 1.61.  You surprised me, I thought you were going to order the more expensive board. Honestly with an HD800 that dac is not going to get you where your trying to go.

 

 

This is so hilarious. Why do people on head-fi have this compulsion to get others to spend more money? Have you done introspection to figure out why you needed to tell me that a system you have never heard is no good, and that it would not be good unless I purchased a more expensive product that you also never heard? lol. It's not just you doing this. it's ton of others on head-fi, some of whom I can clearly verify are giving erroneous advice. It's just kind of funny if you think of it. I guess it's just part of the board's culture.

 

 

The truth is that this DAC doesn't sound noticeably better than my laptop DAC, It sounds different and brighter, and maybe that brightness is revealing a tiny bit of additional detail, but I still can't say it's objectively better in any way (ignoring its amplifier which is clearly crap relative to the built in amplifiers on my other DACs). I can't conclude that any of my six DACs are "better" (the five other DACs being two cell phone dacs, a laptop dac, the dac in the hdmi video card used in my desktop, and my desktop's base audio dac). They're all just different. They each have their own sound signature, some warmer, some brighter, etc. And I seriously doubt a $1,000 DAC would sound better either because I suspect the truth is that a DAC is simply a DAC.

 

If I was really worried about sound quality, I wouldn't be listening to a crappy HD800 with its tiny 1.5" drivers in the first place. I would be listening to the sweet spot of my speakers, positioned perfectly around me, all cranked up and enveloping me in glorious 5.1 sound.

 

Thank you for the note about the driver though, and ultimately my advice would be to never buy any of these Chinese dacs except as a gamble or for fun. If anyone else wants to buy, here are two chinese websites where you can buy all these dac boards directly, although ebay is still probably the preferred route due to their buyer protection.

http://www.hifiwow.com/en/12-dac-decoder-digital-to-analog-conveter

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=35324113465


Edited by ag8908 - 3/25/14 at 5:09am
post #96 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post
 

 

 

This is so hilarious. Why do people on head-fi have this compulsion to get others to spend more money? Have you done introspection to figure out why you needed to tell me that a system you have never heard is no good, and that it would not be good unless I purchased a more expensive product that you also never heard? lol. It's not just you doing this. it's ton of others on head-fi, some of whom I can clearly verify are giving erroneous advice. It's just kind of funny if you think of it. I guess it's just part of the board's culture.

 

 

The truth is that this DAC doesn't sound noticeably better than my laptop DAC, It sounds different and brighter, and maybe that brightness is revealing a tiny bit of additional detail, but I still can't say it's objectively better in any way (ignoring its amplifier which is clearly crap relative to the built in amplifiers on my other DACs). I can't conclude that any of my six DACs are "better" (the five other DACs being two cell phone dacs, a laptop dac, the dac in the hdmi video card used in my desktop, and my desktop's base audio dac). They're all just different. They each have their own sound signature, some warmer, some brighter, etc. And I seriously doubt a $1,000 DAC would sound better either because I suspect the truth is that a DAC is simply a DAC.

 

If I was really worried about sound quality, I wouldn't be listening to a crappy HD800 with its tiny 1.5" drivers in the first place. I would be listening to the sweet spot of my speakers, positioned perfectly around me, all cranked up and enveloping me in glorious 5.1 sound.

 

Thank you for the note about the driver though, and ultimately my advice would be to never buy any of these Chinese dacs except as a gamble or for fun. If anyone else wants to buy, here are two chinese websites where you can buy all these dac boards directly, although ebay is still probably the preferred route due to their buyer protection.

http://www.hifiwow.com/en/12-dac-decoder-digital-to-analog-conveter

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=35324113465

 

 

I guess I don't see the point to all of your posting,(and your disputatious manner), if you are not worried about sound quality.

I mean.

Isn't that THE POINT?

It's why MOST of us are members of this Forum.

I'm not a HeadFi-er because of the shiney stuff on my rig-rack or how great my HPs make my hair look.

It's about SOUND QUALITY.

Many many of your posts and most of your edits, even in THIS thread, are about sound quality.

 

Since January, you've contributed quite a bit to the Board's culture. Including your derision towards people who are just honestly offering input and help, not criticizing you. I viewed Chodi's remark as an observation of the power needed to do justice to your 800's, not a personal remark about your gear. And that observation was only to help you in evaluating your little experiment more correctly. How can you assess what's going on if what you use, to make audible the output of your trials, is inadequate?

 

I really think maybe you already had it decided what you think on the whole Cheap Chinese idea...and that persons who offer something that differs from that are to be decried as foolish and "hilarious".  But, if you are really interested in honest results from your experiment, you'll respect that differing perspectives and honest suggestions are the best way to get the truth, especially when how you determine your results is almost entirely subjective anyway; your own ears.

 

p.s.

if the thing won't properly drive the 800's....sure isn't going to do much for your Glorious Speaker Rig.

just sayin'

 

:wink: 


Edited by DogMeat - 3/25/14 at 11:16am
post #97 of 161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogMeat View Post
 

 

 

I guess I don't see the point to all of your posting,(and your disputatious manner), if you are not worried about sound quality.

I mean.

Isn't that THE POINT?

It's why MOST of us are members of this Forum.

I'm not a HeadFi-er because of the shiney stuff on my rig-rack or how great my HPs make my hair look.

It's about SOUND QUALITY.

Many many of your posts and most of your edits, even in THIS thread, are about sound quality.

 

Since January, you've contributed quite a bit to the Board's culture. Including your derision towards people who are just honestly offering input and help, not criticizing you. I viewed Chodi's remark as an observation of the power needed to do justice to your 800's, not a personal remark about your gear. And that observation was only to help you in evaluating your little experiment more correctly. How can you assess what's going on if what you use, to make audible the output of your trials, is inadequate?

 

I really think maybe you already have it decided that you are keen on the whole Cheap Chinese idea...and that persons who offer something that differs from that are to be decried as foolish and "hilarious".  But, if you are really interested in honest results from your experiment, you'll respect that differing perspectives and honest suggestions are the best way to get the truth, especially when how you determine your results is almost entirely subjective anyway; your own ears.

 

p.s.

if the thing won't properly drive the 800's....sure isn't going to do much for your Glorious Speaker Rig.

just sayin'

 

:wink:

 

 

If you took time to actually read the thread before posting all that, you would have seen that:

 

1. I plugged the DAC it into my 500 watt amplifier, which has more than enough power and which improved the DAC by toning down its brightness. A number of the edits, again which you didn't bother to read, were focused on the DAC's unusual brightness and this eventual solution to that problem.

 

2. The other more expensive DAC that chodi thought I had purchased and which was linked earlier was just a DAC, not the powerful amplifier you incorrectly think is necessary for an HD800, so your whole premise was wrong.

 

3. I can't enjoy my speakers, because I can't play them at 70-75db ear level without annoying others. That's why I listen to the HD800. The point was that all of this nit-picky criticism of headphone set ups (criticism which can often be summarized as, "I haven't heard your system but you need to spend more money" and which is often wrong) is kind of like a midgets criticizing each other for being 4'11 instead of 4'11 1/2. At the end of the day everyone listening to headphones is a person who doesn't have the privacy necessary to enjoy speakers. But such misguided critiques are especially hilarious when offered by a person who neither heard my setup or the setup he thinks would sound better.

 

Your post is a perfect example of why some on head-fi seek only to spread misinformation, based on false premises, and why one has to be very careful before listening to anyone on here.


Edited by ag8908 - 3/25/14 at 11:44am
post #98 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post
 

 

 

If you took time to actually read the thread before posting all that, you would have seen that:

 

1. I plugged the DAC it into my 500 watt amplifier, which has more than enough power and which improved the DAC by toning down its brightness. A number of the edits, again which you didn't bother to read, were focused on the DAC's unusual brightness and this eventual solution to that problem.

 

2. The other more expensive DAC that chodi thought I had purchased and which was linked earlier was just a DAC, not the powerful amplifier you incorrectly think is necessary for an HD800, so your whole premise was wrong.

 

3. I can't enjoy my speakers, because I can't play them at 70-75db ear level without annoying others. That's why I listen to the HD800. The point was that all of this nit-picky criticism of headphone set ups (criticism which can often be summarized as, "I haven't heard your system but you need to spend more money" and which is often wrong) is kind of like a midgets criticizing each other for being 4'11 instead of 4'11 1/2. At the end of the day everyone listening to headphones is a person who doesn't have the privacy necessary to enjoy speakers. But such misguided critiques are especially hilarious when offered by a person who neither heard my setup or the setup he thinks would sound better.

 

Your post is a perfect example of why some on head-fi seek only to spread misinformation, based on false premises, and why one has to be very careful before listening to anyone on here.

 

No, your premise is that you think you were wronged somehow because someone recommended you to buy a pair of headphones (HD800) which you refuse absolutely to try on decent gear. Here's something you can do FOR FREE: take your HD800s, drive to a meet or a local audio shop, and try them on a PROPER headphone amp/DAC combo. Then you can come on here and tell us all how we are spreading misinformation - when you've actually tried decent gear.

 

In fact, why haven't you sold the HD800 by now? You could still sell them and buy some cheap 50usd headphone and be done with it. Why keep them? Also, why are you still on Head-Fi if everybody spreads misinformation and tries to make you waste your money? I don't understand your purpose in posting on these forums if that's how you feel.


Edited by elmoe - 3/25/14 at 12:27pm
post #99 of 161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post
 

 

No, your premise is that you think you were wronged somehow because someone recommended you to buy a pair of headphones (HD800) which you refuse absolutely to try on decent gear. Here's something you can do FOR FREE: take your HD800s, drive to a meet or a local audio shop, and try them on a PROPER headphone amp/DAC combo. Then you can come on here and tell us all how we are spreading misinformation - when you've actually tried decent gear.

 

In fact, why haven't you sold the HD800 by now? You could still sell them and buy some cheap 50usd headphone and be done with it. Why keep them? Also, why are you still on Head-Fi if everybody spreads misinformation and tries to make you waste your money? I don't understand your purpose in posting on these forums if that's how you feel.


I have no idea what the hell you're talking about, or your reasoning (why exactly do I need to sell my HD800? I like it). If you could rewrite your post slowly and carefully that would be great. or just drop it. either way. thanks.

post #100 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post

 

If I was really worried about sound quality, I wouldn't be listening to a crappy HD800 with its tiny 1.5" drivers in the first place. I would be listening to the sweet spot of my speakers, positioned perfectly around me, all cranked up and enveloping me in glorious 5.1 sound.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post
 


I have no idea what the hell you're talking about, or your reasoning (why exactly do I need to sell my HD800? I like it). If you could rewrite your post slowly and carefully that would be great. or just drop it. either way. thanks.

 

Whose reasoning needs work again?

 

My post is fine. Read it a little slower.


Edited by elmoe - 3/25/14 at 12:40pm
post #101 of 161
Thread Starter 

The fact that the HD800 sounds worse than my speakers doesn't mean that I would want to sell them. They're the closest to speakers of any headphone I've tried.

 

I'm planning on trying a stax 009 one day. The stax isn't something I can buy from amazon and return if I don't like it, so I have to wait for a meet or soemthing. But so far the HD800 is the best I can do.

post #102 of 161

Good, now that we've got the useless argument out of the way (although you did call them crappy, yet you're now saying they're the best headphones), why don't you try responding to the relevant part of my post? Here, I'll retype for you:

 

Here's something you can do FOR FREE: take your HD800s, drive to a meet or a local audio shop, and try them on a PROPER headphone amp/DAC combo. Then you can come on here and tell us all how we are spreading misinformation - when you've actually tried decent gear.

post #103 of 161

I think the INITIAL premise is the decision to be deliberately contrary and demeaning to people just trying to be helpful.

Sneering to people he knows nothing about. Stabbing at semantics instead of acknowledging actual intent. CHOOSING to feel all wronged by decent responses from other people.

 

For example;

I am pleased as punch when I get a superior sound from my gear with the least expenditure.

He doesn't know that... but spews assumptions about my intent,(which he missed/chose to miss ENTIRELY,BTW), with derogatory abandon.

 

Just to edify aggie's assumptiveness over there;

I have both Headphones AND Big Speakers.

They do different things for my listening experience.

So I have each, for each purpose. And I know, far more clearly than does Aggie, how I, ME, hear what I listen to.

I DO absolutely, believe that my Senns will justify and elucidate my source far more honestly than will a set of iBudz....

 

 

Not ALL persons are circuit-board builder star-geniuses, with extra time to assemble their own DACs, either.

So we are willing to pay for more costly gear, thus paying wages of people who do the quality control for us.

Or buy from companies who don't have the components assembled by the little hands of Chinese slave children.

Some of what I pay for is about a guarantee that starving 8 years old children didn't go into what I buy.

Can you, Ags, guarantee the same with your ElCheapo, Off-market purchasing? 

 

There's more to it, for many of us, than cost and specs.

And CERTAINLY, most of us are not here for deliberately misinforming each other.

 

I agree with elmoe;

WHY are you here, posting and posting and posting,(>500 since 1/2014), if the forums are so very malignant and waste-of-time for you?

Oh wait...the malignancy is on the other foot.

 

This is a FORUM, you know.

Which means that there are OTHER PEOPLE who will make responses. Attempt to be helpful to somebody posting,when that person is just laying in wait to feel all attacked, or put down other person's opinions as "hilarious".

This ain't the "ag8908 Show" up in here.

 

 

 

:popcorn:

post #104 of 161

What other DACs do you have? The difference between a cheapo DAC and a more expensive DAC does have significant differences. Also, you say you don't hear a difference between amping the HD800s and listening to them straight through the headphone jack of your laptop :rolleyes:

post #105 of 161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lin0003 View Post
 

What other DACs do you have? The difference between a cheapo DAC and a more expensive DAC does have significant differences. Also, you say you don't hear a difference between amping the HD800s and listening to them straight through the headphone jack of your laptop :rolleyes:

 

Not with this DAC. It's almost harshly bright on the HD800 unamped, but if I amp it through my stereo receiver (using the coaxial out to my receiver's coaxial in) it warms up significantly. Night and day really. I think this DAC must have a really crappy amp.

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