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How to find a low priced Chinese version of any super expensive DAC? - Page 6

post #76 of 161
I still don't get that American chauvinism. 40y ago I thought it was nice, then when I grew up I thought it was funny, now I can only look at it as brainwashing (best case scenario).
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopQuark View Post

Here's the deal.  Don't buy it!  As simple as that.  They have been honest enough to say that a 2000usd cable is not going to make any difference on a DAC that cost below 10,000usd or so.  It is for a niche market who are willing to spend that amount.

But that doesn't mean because they are selling a 2000usd cable, their $439 dual ESS Sabre balance DAC cannot be better than an equivalent unknown Chinese DAC. confused.gif
Wow. Don't worry, we won't. But there is something fishy going on here. They have been honest enough to say that a 2000usd cable is not going to make any difference on a DAC that cost below 10,000usd or so. ... rolleyes.gif
Honest enough to to make a totally unsubstantiated statement (I I'm not even calling it what it is: a lie) implying that you do need their (snakeoil) usb cable for their 'superior' > $10k DAC. It is for a niche market , meaning rich people? Whats next? Robin Hood stature?

I don't really like the turn we are taking here, but let's please just keep our discussion honest.
post #77 of 161
Thread Starter 

What's funny is that I would be money that for its most sensitive military applications (nuclear missile launchers, nuclear subs etc. etc.) the United States military uses an average USB cable. If anyone in the military knows please tell us. A USB cable is supposed to transmit binary digits, which is an all or none proposition at a particular data speed, if I understand correctly. Either it works at the speed you want to transmit data, or it doesn't. There's no such thing as a "this cable works better than that cable at xyz speed" phenomenon.

post #78 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by ]eep View Post

I don't really like the turn we are taking here, but let's please just keep our discussion honest.

 

As stated earlier, I will not go into discussion whether an expensive USB cable is better than a standard $4 cable.  This had been discussed to death in several other threads.  Moreover, a lot of us have not tried a >$10,000 DAC with $2,000 cable to compare with so I have no further comment there.

 

For the record, I have nothing against established Chinese DACs. I have several Chinese DACs myself.  One is a 4 year old Matrix Mini-i and it is very nice.  I also have several iBasso USB DACs that I modified with Blackgates and they are simply amazing.  4 years ago, there were no European or US manufacturers close to the $500 price point that can compete with similarly spec'd Chinese DACs.

 

This thread started about unknown Chinese DACs in eBay against established manufacturers in either US or Europe.  The latter's pricing is now very close.  Elmoe chose to get the more established Augio-gd.  I hope that saved him from grief over those unknown DACs in eBay.  Competition now abound from US and European DACs with very similar price points and that is the point of this thread.

post #79 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post
 

What's funny is that I would be money that for its most sensitive military applications (nuclear missile launchers, nuclear subs etc. etc.) the United States military uses an average USB cable. If anyone in the military knows please tell us. A USB cable is supposed to transmit binary digits, which is an all or none proposition at a particular data speed, if I understand correctly. Either it works at the speed you want to transmit data, or it doesn't. There's no such thing as a "this cable works better than that cable at xyz speed" phenomenon.

 

Others contention is there is electro magnetic interference from the power line in the cable so designers shields the power and signal legs separately.  The power line is only used for initial negotiation so it can be turned off after 2 seconds or so.  If one can put an on/off switch after USB negotiation, it should work just as well.  The other is the bandwidth the cable allows.  The higher the bandwidth, the lower the chances of signal loss.

 

By the way, Light Harmonic sends a free 1 meter USB cable with separate power/signal shielding with the Pulse X.

 

Also, some background from Light Harmonics Larry Ho who designed the DAC's and cable.  To quote: "Larry Ho worked as the Executive Vice President of a leading USB integrated circuit company. He and his team of over 150 electronic engineers contributed vital work to the USB 2.0 Audio Class Standard, and developed USB DSP software drivers for partners like Dolby, DTS, and Sennheiser."

 

Disclosure: I use a $4 cable myself.

post #80 of 161
Thread Starter 

But if a USB cable successfully transmits the digit string 10100110100 or whatever, at a specified data speed, despite whatever electromagnetic interference exists, then hasn't it done everything it can possibly do, meaning that a better cable can't do more? I really don't know the answer but that's my amateur understanding.

 

By the way, did you see that video of Mr. Ho putting an HD800 on backwards?


Edited by ag8908 - 3/15/14 at 11:11am
post #81 of 161

Shielding is all nice and good, but not 2000usd nice and good. You can buy a decently shielded cable for 10x less (and I'm being nice). As for bandwidth, a 192/24 FLAC file will be maybe 6-7000kbps, even the cheapest USB cables can handle that easily.

post #82 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post
 

But if a USB cable successfully transmits the digit string 10100110100 or whatever, at a specified data speed, despite whatever electromagnetic interference exists, then hasn't it done everything it can possibly do, meaning that a better cable can't do more? I really don't know the answer but that's my amateur understanding.

 

It is more of "a lot" of 1's and 0's traveling simultaneously.  Some of them do not get to the other end, hence, signal loss.  The others reached the end, but, the time they reached it is not exactly the time they were sent.

 

Quote:
 By the way, did you see that video of Mr. Ho putting an HD800 on backwards?

 

LOL!  :beyersmile: He's smiling too when he put it on.  I will not put much to this.  It's an ad.  I'm happy if the DAC he designed sounds a lot better than how he puts the HD800 on!  :wink_face:

 

BTW, I don't want to sound to much going for Light Harmonics.  I'm not a fan boy but the discussion swayed me this way.  :confused_face:

post #83 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post
 

...As for bandwidth, a 192/24 FLAC file will be maybe 6-7000kbps, even the cheapest USB cables can handle that easily.

 

Good point.  I guess one difference is the signals will reach the other end in style. :dt880smile:

post #84 of 161

lol; 2000 bucks worth of style... 

post #85 of 161
Thread Starter 

plus . . . there's something called USB 3.0 which is super fast

post #86 of 161

Well, the key thing of importance with USB audio is latency, not bandwidth, so in that respect USB 3.0 is useless, 2.0 is by far fast enough. Latency isn't that much better with 3.0 afaik, but that's still kind of moot because latency is mostly important if you need to record instruments and the likes, for audio playback I'm not sure that better latency (less) would bring about any kind of improvement.

post #87 of 161

Just Buy the audiogd... 

 

post #88 of 161

Aren't you a constructive poster. :rolleyes:

post #89 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post
 

Aren't you a constructive poster. :rolleyes:

Well..he owns the 10.32 Audio-gd and he also owns a lot of highly regarded headphones so his opinion is worth considering. I agree he could expand on that thought a little.

post #90 of 161

Unfortunately you guys at the mean time only could rely on gbay vendors to source your gears from China. The difficulty is simply the lack of background knowledge on individual chinese makers and designers. Obviously there is a lot of poor quality products in the market not only outside China but the same happens locally. If you are capable reading chinese hifi forums, you will be in better position to judge their recent trends in terms of sound quality and hardware integrity. 

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