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post #286 of 2658

Got done reading through the thread.  Interesting that this guy has the same DAC chip(BB PCM) as Fiio X5.  Of course I expect better ui from Cowon, and audio affect options.  

 

I've also looked at X5 specs, and the P1 has magnitude lower THD+N and higher SNR(probably due to taking measurements without load).  Also, the spec'd values are slightly better than AK240, except the AK's balanced specs, but SNR is better over all.  Also interms of crosstalk, the P1's value is same as the AK240's balanced.  That's P1's single ended has the same crosstalk value as the AK240's balanced output.  They do have screenshots of the values measured, so their values could be legit.  Looking at the specs for all the AK players, they pretty much have identical SNR and THD+N.  Except the AK10 which is magnitude higher.

 

I'm guessing the THD+N values of P1 and the AK series are without load as the DX90 shows .0015 with 32ohm load.

 

Anybody know if there has been measurements done on the AK240 or any of the AK series?  I would like to find out if their specs are for real, would be useful for values with load.  

 

In all, their measurements are pretty much identical to AK series player, but lacks balanced if that is something that one feels puts out better SQ(but again the crosstalk values are the same even if P1 is single ended).

 

Hope yall can provide some subjective sound comparisons to X5 and AK series players.


Edited by SilverEars - 6/22/14 at 7:03pm
post #287 of 2658
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

  Of course I expect better ui from Cowon

*Record needle scratch* You must not have tried anything but the J3 haha

post #288 of 2658
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

Got done reading through the thread.  Interesting that this guy has the same DAC chip(BB PCM) as Fiio X5.  Of course I expect better ui from Cowon, and audio affect options.  

 

I've also looked at X5 specs, and the P1 has magnitude lower THD+N and higher SNR(probably due to taking measurements without load).  Also, the spec'd values are slightly better than AK240, except the AK's balanced specs, but SNR is better over all.  Also interms of crosstalk, the P1's value is same as the AK240's balanced.  That's P1's single ended has the same crosstalk value as the AK240's balanced output.  They do have screenshots of the values measured, so their values could be legit.  Looking at the specs for all the AK players, they pretty much have identical SNR and THD+N.  Except the AK10 which is magnitude higher.

 

I'm guessing the THD+N values of P1 and the AK series are without load as the DX90 shows .0015 with 32ohm load.

 

Anybody know if there has been measurements done on the AK240 or any of the AK series?  I would like to find out if their specs are for real, would be useful for values with load.  

 

In all, their measurements are pretty much identical to AK series player, but lacks balanced if that is something that one feels puts out better SQ(but again the crosstalk values are the same even if P1 is single ended).

 

Hope yall can provide some subjective sound comparisons to X5 and AK series players.

and what matters also ... what the file format used in these measurements ... and more important and describes the shape of sound and the quality of the output that actually heard obviously is the square wave response with different loads ...... THD and S/N ratio numbers are all good and indicates good performance indeed but with that price range of those sky high players even less than exceptional audio performance with all types and formats is not accepted we need a real world use specs .... with the popular loss-less & lossy formats too

post #289 of 2658

I prefer different types of load measurements as indicators of quality of the output of the DAP.  Here are some examples.  The specs provided by Cowon or AK don't reveal anything beyond, their values are well below a threshold that are considered not great performing.

 

Spectrum graph

 

ct.png 


Edited by SilverEars - 6/22/14 at 10:09pm
post #290 of 2658

You know what would be really nice is, measuring the headphones like Golden Ears, Tyll, or Rin does, but using several types of sources with same iem as load for all to see if there are any significant variations.  That would be interesting.


Edited by SilverEars - 6/22/14 at 10:20pm
post #291 of 2658

i totally agree with you  that would be nice .... in some players they are specified high in terms of s/n & thd  and other measures .... but actually sounds really bad and not as expected from that high measurements .... because they neglected the real life use specs ... and measure with formats actually will make any player sound good :bigsmile_face: .... if we measured its performances with aac or mp3 320 , will see wonders some times ( and i know they are lossy and those things ) but they are quite popular and really if track well recorded and mastered and compressed will sound awesome with little to no difference in sound quality in actual use and listening with a massive increase in storage capacity ) and the disappointing thing to see some models of ipods measures better than those players _  by the way ipods sound sucks too _i wish to have some transparency here from those factories ... even if that player sounds bad with some loads or some kind of headphones or have a specific sound signature ( warm , bright , neutral.. etc ) .. they tell the customers about that to help them to get the headphones that achieves the best synergy with their players and brings  the full enjoyment of the player ( the purpose of our hobby by the way :rolleyes:) .. i know reviewers do that .. but if it is comes from the manufacturer it will sound different and more accurate 

post #292 of 2658
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicHolyGhost View Post

Hi, just wondering if u meant the HM-901 has primitive UI features...i do not encounter "bugs" on my daily usage with FLAC and WAV files.

yes, definitely meant primitive as well. I thought I've read about issues with the UI, having to restart it at times. Perhaps those were earlier reviews as I've not read the entire thread yet, it's quite long.
post #293 of 2658
Primitive is correct..
post #294 of 2658
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrior1975 View Post


yes, definitely meant primitive as well. I thought I've read about issues with the UI, having to restart it at times. Perhaps those were earlier reviews as I've not read the entire thread yet, it's quite long.


I agree that it is very primitive and all audiophile DAPs go through some teething problems upon release

post #295 of 2658
Hifiman should have known much better than to come with that UI and lack of responsiveness.
Especially that nothing seems to have been much improved since release long time ago,
Considering sound is not that much better than any of the other totl daps it represents bad value for money imo.
post #296 of 2658
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundblast75 View Post

Hifiman should have known much better than to come with that UI and lack of responsiveness.
Especially that nothing seems to have been much improved since release long time ago,
Considering sound is not that much better than any of the other totl daps it represents bad value for money imo.

 

Well I happen to find the hm901 sounding A LOT better than most of my DAPs.... only my AK240 came close.  Considering the price, even with it's primitive (but effective and usable) UI, I think it's great value.  YMMV.

 

I just hope the P1 would equal the 901 SQ and it IS great value with a much sleeker profile and probably prettier UI.

post #297 of 2658
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkcc View Post

Well I happen to find the hm901 sounding A LOT better than most of my DAPs.... only my AK240 came close.  Considering the price, even with it's primitive (but effective and usable) UI, I think it's great value.  YMMV.

I just hope the P1 would equal the 901 SQ and it IS great value with a much sleeker profile and probably prettier UI.

Not that I ever heard the 901 or the P1, but I believe, due to the thickness of both players, the 901 will still sound better.

My paypal account is steadily filling up, I hope I can catch the preorder price.
post #298 of 2658
Glad you are enjoying it,to me its a pointless device,at home i have better desktop stuff and for outdoors..u know..been discussed long:)
AK240 is better in the same way 901 is to dx90,nothing i would notice massively on the street imo.
Cowon wont be any different,there's only so much u can do in a portable,differences are insignificant in relation to a home sound setup.
Thats where im coming from anyway:)
You either have too much money or you are curious/stupid..im in the latter category:)))
post #299 of 2658
Unfortunately for me, being a lover of electronics as well, the UI is up there almost as important as SQ. If I had a choice of best UI with great sound or vice versa I'd choose sound. however, choosing awesome sound with terrible ui won't work, has to be some middle ground for me.
post #300 of 2658
Put it this way-
No dap,especially high end costing in the$1000s has any excuse to be giving me just sound for my money..it is not complicated..a simple Nokia running linux has far better ui and music players than ak's,hifimans and Ibassos..shame really
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