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post #106 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post
 

Never going to happen. A modern R10 modelled R11 would cost crap loads. Considering it use to cost over $2000 over 2 decades ago and the price for everything has drastically increased over time in modern days.

 

Of course it could happen. It's all about scale of market, if sennheiser only planned to sell a thousand HD800's you can bet they would be $4000-5000 as well.

 

A lot of the cost of the R10 were because they were so bespoke, just look at that wood and leather. Today we have cnc machines and lots of other fancy stuff that weren't widely available 2 decades ago. The manufacturing industry is vastly more advanced and actually able to do a lot more for less.

 

Just make something along the lines of the Fostex TH-900 but instead it's made by Sony and tuned by then.

 

Would it be as handmade and exclusive as the R10's were? Of course not, but I honestly can't believe that it would be that expensive to reproduce the overall construction and sound of them.


Edited by TwoEars - 3/12/14 at 5:54pm
post #107 of 286

I'll put in my 2c...

 

Since everyone has mentioned Stax and summit fi expensive, I'll suggest something different. Stax are the master of tone. Instruments and voices sound as close to life-like as anything I've heard. And they are also some of the most comfortable hp's that you'll find. So with that in mind, let me suggest two different setups:

 

1. Sennheiser hd650 ($400), Bottlehead Crack with speed ball and nice tubes ($650 assembled) and Uberfrost with upgrades ($500) = $1550 HA!! 

 

Most of the headphones alone recommended here cost about as much as this whole setup. Why do suggest it? Because there are two rigs that have given me an emotional connection to the music that is beyond all others. The first was the Stax sr009 on the BHSE at the Atlanta meet last year. And the second is the $1550 setup that I mentioned above. AND between the two of them, I like the $1550 rig just as much as the Stax. :ph34r: Flame me, I can take it. Just because you've got a sizable budget doesn't mean you have to spend it all. Show you wife how much money you've saved and sit back and reap the benefits..wink wink. 

 

2. If you liked the Stax but want to try something different then consider planar magnetic. The one that I'd recommend is soon to be released at the end of this month. Shipping in early April....the he560 by Hifiman. The he560 is tuned towards the signature of the the he6, the current flagship of the line. There are few new wrinkles to the he560. It uses a "Stax like" suspension headband for comfort. Plus it's considerably lighter than most planarmags, further increasing it's comfort. Planar Mags love power but the he560 is designed to be more efficient. But it will still responds well to power, so for the amp my favorite for this technology has been vintage receivers. Not many do it better than Pioneer circa about 1975. Plus they are just damn sexy and power speakers wonderfully as a bonus. 

 

Hifiman he560 ($900), Pioneer sx1250 or sx1280 ($1400 fully restored) and expensive dac of your choice (around $1000) =$3300

 

gL!!

 

Matt

post #108 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post
 

I'll put in my 2c...

 

Since everyone has mentioned Stax and summit fi expensive, I'll suggest something different. Stax are the master of tone. Instruments and voices sound as close to life-like as anything I've heard. And they are also some of the most comfortable hp's that you'll find. So with that in mind, let me suggest two different setups:

 

1. Sennheiser hd650 ($400), Bottlehead Crack with speed ball and nice tubes ($650 assembled) and Uberfrost with upgrades ($500) = $1550 HA!! 

 

Most of the headphones alone recommended here cost about as much as this whole setup. Why do suggest it? Because there are two rigs that have given me an emotional connection to the music that is beyond all others. The first was the Stax sr009 on the BHSE at the Atlanta meet last year. And the second is the $1550 setup that I mentioned above. AND between the two of them, I like the $1550 rig just as much as the Stax. :ph34r: Flame me, I can take it. Just because you've got a sizable budget doesn't mean you have to spend it all. Show you wife how much money you've saved and sit back and reap the benefits..wink wink. 

 

2. If you liked the Stax but want to try something different then consider planar magnetic. The one that I'd recommend is soon to be released at the end of this month. Shipping in early April....the he560 by Hifiman. The he560 is tuned towards the signature of the the he6, the current flagship of the line. There are few new wrinkles to the he560. It uses a "Stax like" suspension headband for comfort. Plus it's considerably lighter than most planarmags, further increasing it's comfort. Planar Mags love power but the he560 is designed to be more efficient. But it will still responds well to power, so for the amp my favorite for this technology has been vintage receivers. Not many do it better than Pioneer circa about 1975. Plus they are just damn sexy and power speakers wonderfully as a bonus. 

 

Hifiman he560 ($900), Pioneer sx1250 or sx1280 ($1400 fully restored) and expensive dac of your choice (around $1000) =$3300

 

gL!!

 

Matt


Or he could just wait for the new Jade like I said before :P

post #109 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoEars View Post
 

 

Of course it could happen. It's all about scale of market, if sennheiser only planned to sell a thousand HD800's you can bet they would be $4000-5000 as well.

 

A lot of the cost of the R10 were because they were so bespoke, just look at that wood and leather. Today we have cnc machines and lots of other fancy stuff that weren't widely available 2 decades ago. The manufacturing industry is vastly more advanced and actually able to do a lot more for less.

 

Just make something along the lines of the Fostex TH-900 but instead it's made by Sony and tuned by then.

 

Would it be as handmade and exclusive as the R10's were? Of course not, but I honestly can't believe that it would be that expensive to reproduce the overall construction and sound of them.

 

I'd disagree and if you've done a bit marketing or observed product development you would know why it will not produced at the same costs or less that it was back then. Everything be it tangible or non-tangible, moving or non-moving, prices have all gone up. Efforts and labor are not gone unpaid, labor per hr have increased over 10 fold compared to the typical hourly pay rate in the late 80's. 

 

There is more to it then just supply and demand, machinery may have advanced over time but it is just as expensive as it was back then, that is if you aim for the best tools and machinery you can buy. Engineering, planning, implementation, knowing your customers/stakeholders, any setbacks/limitations and constraints with producing X product are major key factors and finally most importantly is customer/stakeholder satisfaction. Another problem is materials the R10 uses a special wood partly for it's attributes to acoustical properties of sound.

 

The final thing is even if there is supply and demand and a niche group that want an R10 remake, Sony is no longer the exclusive company it was once in the 60-80's, like 99% of every other old school company, why spend/invest millions on producing a limited range of products where supply and demand is low for a niche audience and profitability is low, when they can produce a V6 remake for significantly less and make more money due to the large amount of hipsters that would buy it compared to a few rich 50 year olds anticipating for an R10 remake. Companies these days only care about money and profit and the easiest path to reaching there. No matter how popular or effective Head-fi or any other headphone site have become or are, we are still a small percentage participating in the pool of general consumer and high end audio.


Edited by DefQon - 3/12/14 at 6:31pm
post #110 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimzerz View Post
 


Or he could just wait for the new Jade like I said before :P

 

Sorry, I missed that. :o

post #111 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post
 

I'd disagree.

 

Well, we can agree to disagree. And if you think like you do why would any big company bother with making halo products? Why would Mercedes-Benz build the S-class when they actually make more money off the C-class? If you don't have a halo product sooner or later you're just another run of the mill company competing for lowest price just like everyone else. And there's also the tech-trickle down effect, if you don't try and push ahead to the front of the pack you're going to end up last sooner than you think.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post
 :ph34r: Flame me, I can take it. Just because you've got a sizable budget doesn't mean you have to spend it all. Show you wife how much money you've saved and sit back and reap the benefits..wink wink.

 

I've never heard a stax rig (or R10 for that matter) but I've heard a lot of other headphones and I completely agree that if you can forget that the LCD-2/3/X and HD800's of this world are theoretically, and for a all practial purposes, "better" headphones then a well driven HD600/650 is still right up there on the "enjoyment" scale. Especially for midranged focused music such as vocal and light classical.

 

A lot of modern pop music is actually more enjoyable on my HD650 than on my HD800's simply because it isn't that well produced.

 

Flame me too if you have to! :rolleyes: 


Edited by TwoEars - 3/12/14 at 6:51pm
post #112 of 286
I guarantee if Sony made an effort to bring back the R10, or something similar (less reliant on specific things like the bio drivers and a specific wood, please) that actually sounded good they would easily sell every unit they made. If Ultrasone can sell out a production run of Edition 10s at $2700 and sound like complete crap, Sony can sell a good sounding headphone for $3000+. The kicker is that most of the research is already done, they just need to adapt to new materials and production methods.

By the way, it's not just 50 year olds buying high end headphones. The meets and tradeshows I've been to show high end headphones are mostly purchased by 20-40 year olds. Speakers still hold true to the high end being mostly for older people, but then again, a high end headphone rig is a mere $10k at most, usually, where a high end speaker rig starts at more than double that.
post #113 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

I guarantee if Sony made an effort to bring back the R10, or something similar (less reliant on specific things like the bio drivers and a specific wood, please) that actually sounded good they would easily sell every unit they made. If Ultrasone can sell out a production run of Edition 10s at $2700 and sound like complete crap, Sony can sell a good sounding headphone for $3000+. The kicker is that most of the research is already done, they just need to adapt to new materials and production methods.

By the way, it's not just 50 year olds buying high end headphones. The meets and tradeshows I've been to show high end headphones are mostly purchased by 20-40 year olds. Speakers still hold true to the high end being mostly for older people, but then again, a high end headphone rig is a mere $10k at most, usually, where a high end speaker rig starts at more than double that.

There's a few things that stand out from your post:

 

1. If it sounds good that is, but no one's here judging that good sounding headphones aren't a profitable asset in return back to the manufacturer, everybody loves a good product.

2. Moar expensive doesn't equal better. The Abyss is a prime candidate as an example.

3. Although the research has been done, but it's completely different to one of the cycles in product deployment and that is implementation. Who says Sony doesn't have there old design papers still for the design of the R10? Look at Stax, the second time the company was brought back to life, most of there old stuff was junked and lost, I mean they don't even know if the SR-2 was an actual e-stat model as it isn't even listed in there history timeline. New materials and production methods means different sound (not always necessary), the CD3k I use own were never the best headphones even in this modern day, they don't excel in detail retrieval that even my HD600's capable of producing better, no... but what stands out about them is the unique sound signature and certain entities of it's sound that make's it a legend of a headphone and still sought after those that are collectors, ex-owners or those curious, no modern headphone I have owned/heard has been able to reproduce or replace the sound I very much liked from them. Properties of materials have a bigger affect then just simple tuning you were taught in class 101.

4. I know it's not just 50 year old's buying headphones it was a cultural stereotypical example of those seen getting into high end gear, generally older or more mature folks. You don't see much if any 18-20 year olds owning a BHSE + 009 or Orpheus set now do you?

post #114 of 286
Not going to argue point for point with you. My main point was that if they made something that sounded at least good, maybe not great or maybe not fantastic, they could do no worse than the Edition 10, which sold out despite sounding like a $10 headphone you'd win from a grabber game machine. Sony's name still carries intrigue, though they sure haven't shown much to be intrigued by lately. The fact is that Sony will not make a R10 clone or successor because they are bankrupt or near to being. The sad part is that a decision to make this headphone would be a step in the right direction, profit and prestige. They are busy making stuff to fit the lowest common denominator pinching pennies and losing dollars.
post #115 of 286

Yes and I agree with that post. They are busy making money elsewhere in the market and business sector so they don't have interests to invest money into making a product just to regain that Legendary status and reputation they once had.

post #116 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post
They are busy making stuff to fit the lowest common denominator pinching pennies and losing dollars.

 

Too true. And the battle on the TV market with samsung and LG has cost them dearly, even the PS4 is believed to be sold at a loss of at least $60 per unit.

 

Why not make a TOTL headphone and actually turn a profit on each unit for a change? :rolleyes:

post #117 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoEars View Post
 

Why not make a TOTL headphone and actually turn a profit on each unit for a change? :rolleyes:

 

Even with bigger companies out there, it's always a risk factor with 2 sides of the story. Even when there is demand for it, you have to oversee it in the long term to propose the product as a worthy competitor in the market, a worthy substitute product and a worthy profit turnover for the companies increase in assets. Something may be popular now but hard to say in a few years time, theoretically speaking.

post #118 of 286

Going to put in my 2c here, as Matt said;)

 

I am a bit biased here, as my favorite headphone is the HD800, why? The most comfortable headphones I have found, the soundstage is massive, and there is gobs and gobs of detail. Pair that with a DNA Stratus with tube upgrades, and a random DAC(Not sure why, but I really don't ever have recommendations for DACs, never researched them much..). The HD800 & DNA Stratus is a heavenly pairing to me. Maybe that pairing with a turntable? I love turntables.. 

post #119 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

There's a few things that stand out from your post:

2. Moar expensive doesn't equal better. The Abyss is a prime candidate as an example.

Just when you were beginning to make some sense, you slip in a political reference.wink.gif
post #120 of 286

He has Stax ears.... 'nuff said.

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