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AKG K812 HEADPHONES REVIEW Serial No 001106 - Page 4

post #46 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

Although there are small production variances, the HD800s have always been pretty much the same in how they measure (and subjectively sound like) from the very early serial numbers to now. I've measured almost a dozen or so now. The tricky part is getting consistent measurements because of the HD800's angled driver and cup. One needs to be super precise in cup placement, otherwise the measurements from the mid-treble up will vary.

@Blackmore
: Good analysis between K812 and HD800.
Could different ear cup position explain variation in CSD graphs, especially in the time domain?
http://en.goldenears.net/22602

http://en.goldenears.net/4326

Besides the measurements, the new (say above 12k serial #) HD800 sound different than those with numbers up to 5000 or more. The new ones sound darker and have no "smell of the dead" in their sound presentation. Sorry for not finding a better word but actually I distinguish the new and old ones by presence of this effect which I don't like.
post #47 of 77

could you please eloborate on "smell of the dead" sonically. thanks.

post #48 of 77
Thread Starter 
Maybe coloration that not exciting enough, some call boring or lifeless, grey color, something between full of freshness and darky warmth, kind of misty weather, which may create the mystery feeling about whats behind it, but when you are through, nothing but the same mist are there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by saktanbers View Post

could you please eloborate on "smell of the dead" sonically. thanks.
post #49 of 77

thank you blackmore. exquisite as always.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post

Maybe coloration that not exciting enough, some call boring or lifeless, grey color, something between full of freshness and darky warmth, kind of misty weather, which may create the mystery feeling about whats behind it, but when you are through, nothing but the same mist are there.
post #50 of 77
Thread Starter 

 Year 2011

 

06.TB_Sennheiser HD800.PNG

 

 

 

 

Year 2013

 

 

c7f1b9538f807b3f21c27ecb5f1af1aa.png

 

 

So, are they got more of HD650 soul now?

 

THX

post #51 of 77

Its annoying to watch this happen, the major companies pushing the boom box sound as a standard/reference sound, what a sad joke! 

post #52 of 77
Normal measurement and production variation. Looking at normal graphs, not the one posted previously, shows this quite clearly. They aren't changing anything. And I'm not buying that CSD that shows nearly 3 ms ringing on their HD800. I've never seen any HD800 ring that long. The other CSD looks proper and matches all others I've seen.
Edited by Maxvla - 3/19/14 at 5:34pm
post #53 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

Normal measurement and production variation. Looking at normal graphs, not the one posted previously, shows this quite clearly. They aren't changing anything. And I'm not buying that CSD that shows nearly 3 ms ringing on their HD800. I've never seen any HD800 ring that long. The other CSD looks proper and matches all others I've seen.

 

Well, there's this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/646871/new-hd-800-very-different-than-the-old-hd-800. And what I've heard myself. And David Solomon's opinion,

 

"I own two pairs of the HD800: serial #297 and serial #10333. Serial #297 was made during the first production run while serial #10333 was manufactured approximately two years later. [...]

 

However, what I've found is that the two HD800s have some very noticeable sonic differences. The earlier pair (#297) has a fuller tone and is slightly more laid-back in the highs. This is, in my opinion, not a result of burn-in; I've owned the later pair for nearly two years and I still maintain this view. While many people are of the belief that there will always be differences from model to model (a belief I most certainly don't disagree with), I have had the opportunity to hear several early models and several later models of the HD800; in my opinion, the earlier ones have a slightly fuller tone. I am not certain as to when the sonic transition took place or what may have caused it.
 
Despite the earlier model's fuller tone, if I had to pick which of the two pairs was my preference, I would choose the later. I feel that the later model (#10333) offers a greater degree of transparency and puts more air around the instruments. The noted differences are not so drastic, but I have done several blind tests and I always know which headphone is which." (http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13#user_HD800)

 

I don't know what to attribute the change in sound to. It could be production changes. It could be the pads. Could be . . . who knows.

post #54 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by majkel View Post

Besides the measurements, the new (say above 12k serial #) HD800 sound different than those with numbers up to 5000 or more. The new ones sound darker and have no "smell of the dead" in their sound presentation. Sorry for not finding a better word but actually I distinguish the new and old ones by presence of this effect which I don't like.

 

Nonsense. There's an entire thread at another site dedicated to "HD800 variability measurements". I have five CSDs basically showing the same thing from s/n 500 to s/n 20k+. I've also heard at least a dozen HD800s with four s/n < 2000. They all pretty much sound the same. I'm sure there are differences, but in my experience, they are small, especially in comparison with some of the K550s, T1s, and DT1350 I've heard.

 

The HD800 pads so have an effect on their sound though, so that is something to take into consideration.

 

Again, placement on the HD800 is crucial when measuring. If you look at Goldenears CSD graph of the HD800 in 9/2011, you'll notice it's messed up. The gating for the impulse response is incorrect. I don't trust it. And that 2.5 ridge looks more like a screw up / artifact than anything else. Could have been his CPU fan running at 2500rpm for all we know.

 

But enough of this nonsense, this thread is really more about K812 vs. HD800, and in that sense I think Blackmore really nailed it with the possible exception that I didn't find the K812 all that great at extracting plankton. (I did a comparison with HD600 and found the HD600 way more resolving.)


Edited by purrin - 3/19/14 at 7:10pm
post #55 of 77
Thread Starter 

That's correct, I am not looking for HD800 differences war here, neither many who may like to keep it to the subject, but...As we all try to explain something, different subjects are popping up just like that, so, as long as we can keep it nice, no problems either.

 

Regarding better or worse, K812 vs. HD800

 

From the start, and I like to say it again, I didn't like what I heard, not because they were that terrible sonically only, no, also, because I experienced a very nasty adjusting period from out of box and say few days later with very little burn in. I don't read much another man reviews lately, but when I do, I don't see much about the burn in process as a whole, so, I thought it may help some of possible users to understand that K812 are really need some serious burn in time, before you can say anything, that's how I felt and still feel about them. More even, while I don't expect wonders, my idea is that these need around 400 for sure, as the changes they show after 250 are pretty noticeable in every area, however, and this is how I still feel to, even they will be fully burned in, I don't expect them become the pair of headphones I REALLY like to own, because their basic intentions are differ from my preferences. They are/were tuned at the way I don't like it at full and areas where they failed are not acceptable for me personally.

 

Here are the areas:

 

- I wish they used better material/construction to make them lighter and automatically more comfortable

- I wish they were more realistic with their way of ambience reproduction

- I wish they were more spacey, not just RIGHT LEFT and  centric oriented, with more air around the instruments, less pressure around midsection

- I wish their bass had real depth

- I wish that their cable were like HD800 and offer fully balanced option

 

These, as far as I can remember, the most important things that draw me away from them. Yes, some may disagree, but that's them and not me and to me, all above makes a very important part of the whole, each single thing push them to the top or bottom. With premium price I expect premium headphones.

 

THX

post #56 of 77
Thread Starter 

Don’t want to sound to negative, but I don’t believe these will survive next winter, if you know what I mean. I just remember when HD800 are came out, man, it was like storm, but it is already 4 month after K812 been released and I feel like falling asleep already.

They should fix the issues and introduce them to the general customer with lower price around EUR 1000, with good marketing  and very quick to, otherwise, they will disappear like drop water in hot sand.

post #57 of 77
Four pages plus an obituary. Wow!
post #58 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post
 

Don’t want to sound to negative, but I don’t believe these will survive next winter, if you know what I mean. I just remember when HD800 are came out, man, it was like storm, but it is already 4 month after K812 been released and I feel like falling asleep already.

They should fix the issues and introduce them to the general customer with lower price around EUR 1000, with good marketing  and very quick to, otherwise, they will disappear like drop water in hot sand.

 

I think people need a chance to hear them at stores and meets before you mothball them. I seldom buy without having a 20 minute demo using reference tracks for my genres. That's even more true over $500.

post #59 of 77
Thread Starter 

This is great sarcasm, like it very much.

 

THX

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mambosenior View Post

Four pages plus an obituary. Wow!

 

 

This can be a big problem for many people, audition I mean, as most sellers are online and don't offer demo, besides, burn in is crucial and take lots of time, so, 20 minutes aren't enough with these, however, folks who love them from out of box, will adore them after 200 hours even more.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claritas View Post
 

 

I think people need a chance to hear them at stores and meets before you mothball them. I seldom buy without having a 20 minute demo using reference tracks for my genres. That's even more true over $500.

post #60 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post
 

This can be a big problem for many people, audition I mean, as most sellers are online and don't offer demo, besides, burn in is crucial and take lots of time, so, 20 minutes aren't enough with these, however, folks who love them from out of box, will adore them after 200 hours even more.

 

You have a good point about burn in. If the store is serious about selling it (or anything else), they should burn in their demo unit. That's not an issue at a meet.

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