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Best subwoofer for music for my Swan M200 MKIII speakers/PC/room set-up? (Pics inside) - Page 2

post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

How about dual Dayton SUB-1500s. That would shake the room. LOL
That might cause your brain to rub against your skull.
post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrnie View Post

That might cause your brain to rub against your skull.

If that's the goal, and he lives in MI, I gotta an Outlaw LFM-1 EX I could sell him. I haven't been able to bear to part with on Craigslist to some random person. It needs a good home--I feel like I'm selling a pet (lol). But the EX and his feet would definitely not fit under that desk.
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


I looked into that a couple of years ago, and I even talked with a tech support guy for one of my sound cards. Apparently, that sub channel in Windows is meant to be used with multichannel audio, not for 2.1. So if you enable that even with movies and games, then the sound mix can be weird because you aren't getting the center and surrounds. Maybe things have changed with Windows 8X and it's improved now.

yea some one told me that too.  It's shame how pc audio ignore "true" 2.1 audio since all 2.1 that are design for the computer uses the green only. 

post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by imeem View Post
 

yea some one told me that too.  It's shame how pc audio ignore "true" 2.1 audio since all 2.1 that are design for the computer uses the green only. 

It just means the crossover is in the speakers rather than windows.

Some sound cards (like my asus) have crossover settings in them that I assume solve the problem you're talking about.

post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by imeem View Post

yea some one told me that too.  It's shame how pc audio ignore "true" 2.1 audio since all 2.1 that are design for the computer uses the green only. 

I can understand why Windows doesn't support downmixing (or whatever the proper term is) multichannel into 2.1. But it doesn't make sense to me why Windows wouldn't have the option for 2.1 from a stereo audio signal since that's just a high pass and low pass filter crossover setting. My only guess is that it's because some engineer decided that because the subwoofer output and the center channel output are on the same 3.5mm jack with sound cards, that it would only be used with multichannel.
post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraken2109 View Post
 

It just means the crossover is in the speakers rather than windows.

Some sound cards (like my asus) have crossover settings in them that I assume solve the problem you're talking about.

it's not only the crossover, but apparently if ur doing 2.1 this way and ur playing games, it won't be proper because the game/window assumes you're using 5.1 speakers when you are really using 2. So sound positioning would be weird. 

post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by imeem View Post
 

it's not only the crossover, but apparently if ur doing 2.1 this way and ur playing games, it won't be proper because the game/window assumes you're using 5.1 speakers when you are really using 2. So sound positioning would be weird. 

I don't really understand what you're saying. If you have a 2.1 setup you should have everything set to stereo.

All 2.1 means is a pair of stereo speakers with a crossover going to a mono sub. There is no reason why you shouldn't plug them into a stereo jack, they're exactly the same as a pair of 2-way stereo speakers, just with one bass driver rather than 2. The sub isn't for separate information.

post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraken2109 View Post
 

I don't really understand what you're saying. If you have a 2.1 setup you should have everything set to stereo.

All 2.1 means is a pair of stereo speakers with a crossover going to a mono sub. There is no reason why you shouldn't plug them into a stereo jack, they're exactly the same as a pair of 2-way stereo speakers, just with one bass driver rather than 2. The sub isn't for separate information.

You really don't get it.

 

When you connect your 2.0 speakers to the green and sub to the sub/center out, realtek/windows will automatically assume this is a 5.1/7.1 set up. The sub will not work in programs like Windows media player. When  you go to playback device and press test, it will play sound for the rear and side speakers out even when they are missing. In games likes BF 3, all the connected speakers will works . However, supposedly audio also goes to the rear and side speakers and since you don't have them, it will mess with your sound positioning.

 

Note that this shouldn't/would't happen if you have 2.1 speakers designed for computers since it only uses the green jack and computer treats this as normal stereo. 

 

Like i said before, this is what people are telling me and that i'm not making this up so if you're confuse or disagree, then there's nothing more i can say.  


Edited by imeem - 3/2/14 at 10:07am
post #24 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by imeem View Post

You really don't get it.

When you connect your 2.0 speakers to the green and sub to the sub/center out, realtek/windows will automatically assume this is a 5.1/7.1 set up.

Agreed. That's my experience with it too with Xonar sound cards, and I found it from an HT Omega Tech at the time that this was a Windows audio implementation problem, not the sound card design fault.

So I think this method that you listed previously is optimal:
Quote:
Originally Posted by imeem View Post

Find a subwoofer that has line in and line out (like mines) . So your pc will go line-in to your sub, and line-out to your speakers.

Particularly if one has a sub like mine that has the high pass filter option on the line out. That allows one to let the sub take over part of the midbass--this is assuming that someone is using a good sub that actually produces better midbass. Otherwise, the option just to match the sub low pass filter setting with the natural roll off of the speakers may work better.

A second option is to split the left/right channels coming out of the audio source and run them both to the sub and the speakers. Some people get bent of shape about how that might decrease audio quality, but it's only a little reduction in the gain that should only affect SNR a little. Meanwhile, noise floor in any room is generally much higher than noise floor output from the speakers/sub, so I can't imagine it makes an audible difference.

Also, both these methods require that the sub have left/right RCA inputs. Some subs may only have a single LFE input.
post #25 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrallite View Post
 

Sealed subs work very well for music due to lower cycle delay, the trade-off is output. Rythmik has some ported servo subs which is a bit of combination of both, the start-stopping ability of sealed with the output of ported. If you can squeeze enough budget to get an entry-level Rythmik you'd be golden. Otherwise, there are some nice deals on ebay/craigslist.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Not sure about some of your used choices, but the SVS subs are the best out of that list that are available new. For an equivalent sub to the PB-1000, you would have to look at the HSU VTF-1. The SVS subs are also nice because you can demo them in home for free (free shipping both ways), they have a 1 year trade up policy, and the warranty is full five years driver and amp.

The SVS subs also have an 80hz high pass filter on the line output, allowing you the option to crossover your speakers higher than their low frequency rolloff. I think that's important, because otherwise when you buy a sub, all you will be doing is filling in where the speakers are starting to drop off in bass. With that 80hz option, you can let the sub take over some of the midbass output from the speakers, and, because the sub has a separate gain (volume) control, you can even add some emphasis to that midbass.

 

The more I read the more the PB-1000 seems to be recommended above the SB-1000 (and all the rest I have listed).  The issue being that it's significantly bigger/heavier and would be more difficult finding an easy placement for it in the room.  So how about adding another option to the mix; the SVS SB12-NSD?  It's sealed but appears to have more output than either the SB-1000 or PB-1000, is lighter and smaller than than the PB-1000, and seems like a superior sub to both.  The only two issues would be; 1.) the added price.  Used, I can get it for between $550-585 and new I can get it from the manufactuter for $629 but that's a fair amount above my $400 budget and I'm wondering if it's worth it.  And 2.) Would it hook up as easily as the SB-1000 would with my Swan speakers/ASUS P9X79 WS?  From what I gather, one of the big advantages of the SVS SB-1000 is that it's fairly easy to hook up with my set-up but I'm not sure that the same would be true with the SVS SB12-NSD.

 

(Please correct me if I'm wrong) but I believe to hook up the SB-1000 with the Asus motherboard and the Swans speakers I'd only need two cables - a 3.5mm to 2RCA cable to go from the motherboard to the sub and a 2RCA to 2RCA cable to go from the sub to the Swan speaker.

 

Would this also be the case with the SVS SB12-NSD?

 

Thanks again for all the help!

post #26 of 27
Yes. The SB12 would hook up fine to your speakers and you are looking at the right kind of cables.

My guess is that the PB-1000 would have more max output than the SB12, and it will also extend a little lower. But the SB12 should be be the better SQ sub of the two. The SB12 should have plenty of output for your whole room unless you like it extremely loud (probably louder than those Swans can go). Audioholics reviewed it and rated it good for 1500 to 3000 cubic feet. Note that the listening tests were done in a 4000+ cubic ft room and did pretty well for a compact 12" sub: http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/sb12-nsd-subwoofer/sb12-nsd-listening

The benefit of the extra extension on the PB-1000 would help with movies, but not going to matter with 99.9% of the music out there, even in bass heavy genres.

Another sub you could consider would be the Reaction Audio BPS 212 "Turbo". It has dual opposed 12" drivers (two in the same enclosure). They are a new company. Someone over at AVS who also owns another good Internet direct subwoofer got one and liked it: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1519727/reaction-audio-dual12-inch-subwoofers Impossible to tell which would sound better between the SB12 and that the BPS 212 Turbo, but I would bet on it to outperform the SB-1000 in total output and likely do as well as the SB12 (if not a good bit better). However, I don't know if it has the built in high pass filter capability, which is a big plus to me in your kind of application.
Edited by cel4145 - 3/6/14 at 7:34pm
post #27 of 27

I will most likely buying sub for my M200MKIII speakers later this year.

 

My options are Audioengine S8, Swan H6 and H10. 

 

Does anyone have experience with these subs?

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