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Can the O2 amp fully drive the Beyerdynamic T1? - Page 2

post #16 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTom View Post
 

I see so your point is that even if if the O2 can drive the T1 to loud volumes it might not be able to match its speed i.e. quick changes in frequency/volume?.

 

That depends on how you define "speed". In terms of measurable "speed", the O2 has sufficient high frequency extension, flat response (less than 0.1 dB variation from 20 Hz to 20 kHz and no significant phase shift), and slew rate (can output a nearly 48 kHz tone at full scale 20 Vp-p voltage) that it should not have problems with reasonably well reconstructed - that is, not with a NOS DAC or other device that outputs a lot of ultrasonic/RF garbage - CD quality digital audio. Whether it has enough PRaT or whatever in sighted subjective listening, it is mostly down to individual biases and other factors.

 

Ultimately, you either trust - even sub-consciously - the objective approach or you do not. In the latter case, just buy the most expensive amplifier you can afford, because you will never find peace of mind with the O2 or other low-ish cost amplifiers, and you will end up "upgrading" anyway, spending more than if you just skipped the alleged lo-fi gear in the first place. Otherwise, you may also consider the possibility that using different headphones, rather than amps, could give the best sound.


Edited by stv014 - 2/25/14 at 4:17am
post #17 of 32
This question isn't going to be decided on the drawing board, but on the ground. The measurements indicate that it should work; only experience will prove if it does.
post #18 of 32
Thread Starter 

I think stv014 makes some interesting points. It would be interesting to hear a rebuttal from someone on the other side of the fence.

post #19 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTom View Post
 

I think stv014 makes some interesting points. It would be interesting to hear a rebuttal from someone on the other side of the fence.

 

I think Xenophon sufficiently explained the issue. What didn't you agree with?

post #20 of 32
stv014 has shown quite comprehensively why Xenophon has not "sufficiently explained the issue".
post #21 of 32
Thread Starter 

It's not a case of agreeing or disagreeing. The way I understood Xenophon's comments is that it is not possible to equate SPL levels attainable with an amps ability to fully drive a headphone.

 

The implication being that the O2 is lacking in some other manner when paired with the T1 but no specific details of technical shortcomings of the O2 was given. From what I understood, it appears that stv014 is arguing that this not the case i.e. the O2 has a sufficiently high slew rate etc. 


Edited by PTom - 2/26/14 at 12:57am
post #22 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roly1650 View Post

stv014 has shown quite comprehensively why Xenophon has not "sufficiently explained the issue".

 

Yes, that's my point.  

post #23 of 32

I thought Xenophon's point was that it works in theory (with a sine wave) but not in practice (lively varied music). That wouldn't surprise me.

 

Objectivity must meet the test of experience, so try it and see if it works.

 

I don't think it's all objective or all subjective--at least not at the current state of measurement.

post #24 of 32
Thread Starter 

Yes but to convincingly apply those statements to the O2/T1 combo requires a more in-depth technical argument and this has not been given. Maybe we're getting into a subjective vs objective debate. The point of this thread is to come up with an objective answer.


Edited by PTom - 2/26/14 at 1:48am
post #25 of 32
And stv014 has supplied an objective answer.
post #26 of 32

OK. I don't think we've gotten into an objective-subjective debate.

 

As it stands:

1. The O2 can drive a very high impedance model at reasonable volume, or

2. You accept stv014's answer, or

3. We haven't come up with a good objective explanation of why it can / can't, or

4. We've reached the limits of today's measuring standards in predicting performance

 

I should think that the more powerful adapter would positively affect performance in this case. If I can't drive the K340 (400 ohms) I just bought at normal volume, I'll try the other adapter before buying a different amp.

 

Regardless, if O2 can't drive a 600 ohm model, I don't conclude that the objective approach is wrong and we should buy "audio jewelry" instead.


Edited by Claritas - 2/26/14 at 2:22am
post #27 of 32

From listening experiences on various occasions, I think that the O2 sounds great with the T1 and can drive them fine. I do however enjoy a tube amp more with the T1, but they do sound great out of the T1.

post #28 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post
 

I thought Xenophon's point was that it works in theory (with a sine wave) but not in practice (lively varied music). That wouldn't surprise me.

 

It is possible to objectively test even with music. This is done by sampling the output of the device that is being tested, and then subtracting the original signal that has been filtered to match the frequency response (including phase response and delay) of the recorded audio as accurately as possible. The result contains all distortion, noise, jitter, and whatever other artifacts that have been added.

 

Here is an example of this. Difference extraction can be used to disprove claims that an amplifier performs great with sine waves, but fails badly with music.

post #29 of 32

I Used T1 with SPL Auditor for 9 months , but needing money i sold the Auditor and Get an O2 and used it with T1 for about 6 month before selling my T1 , i mostly used it on 1X Gain , i almost never used 2.5x gain (only on some very quiet classical track , when i was too lasy to turn the plot ) .Usually i let the pot at 12'oclock and ajust volume on foobar . (so their was plenty of marge to crank up the volume) .

 

I had the same pleasure hearing my T1 from O² than i had with Auditor . Although i only listen musique at relatively moderate volumes , never very loud .

 

So if you feel that O² is not powering T1 correctly you are wrong , you just don't like the combo IMO .


Edited by HaVoC-28 - 2/26/14 at 9:34am
post #30 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
 

To be honest I didn't detect any audible difference between the adapters.  I listen to classical only, also at lowish volumes and use the lowest gain setting.  When I use higher gain there's a noticeable degradation in details such as reproduction of higher piano notes, xylophone, strings, cymbals...they lose detail.  Subjective appreciation of course but that's my impression.

 

The O2 differs from the majority of other amplifiers in that it has the gain stage before the volume control, which is followed only by a unity gain buffer. For this reason, setting too high gain can result in clipping (distortion) that cannot be eliminated by turning down the volume on the amplifier. This happens very easily with the default 6.5x high gain, since the clipping starts at not much more than 1 Vrms input level (compared to ~2 Vrms for CD players and many other desktop sources, and 1.2 even for Realtek onboard codecs). If you really need high gain for the last few dB of output with hard to drive headphones and high dynamic range music, reducing the source (DAC) volume could be necessary to avoid clipping.

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