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post #121 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans2025 View Post

There's going to be a big difference, much more than just volume

That's not a difference. That's blatant misuse of the iThing and the LCD's. If the amplifier does not deliver the minimum power required by the driver then the sounds the driver makes will be distorted. Like plugging those LCD's into the iThing. Once the amplifier can supply this minimum power then any additional power really is just more volume. This goes to the upper limit of the driver's design at which point more power turns into distortion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post

Oh right. You should try this experiment.

Go over to Youtube, look for the "Audio Myths Workshop", and watch and listen. It's about an hour long. My favorite is the $800 jar of colored rocks.

Edit: I aplogize. The rocks are "only" $130. It's the dodgy alligator clips that are $800. Still. A hunnert and thirty bucks for a jar of rocks. And people buy these things and insist that they work.
Edited by ratinox - 2/26/14 at 5:23pm
post #122 of 211
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratinox View Post


That's not a difference. That's blatant misuse of the iThing and the LCD's. If the amplifier does not deliver the minimum power required by the driver then the sounds the driver makes will be distorted. Like plugging those LCD's into the iThing. Once the amplifier can supply this minimum power then any additional power really is just more volume. This goes to the upper limit of the driver's design at which point more power turns into distortion.
Go over to Youtube, look for the "Audio Myths Workshop", and watch and listen. It's about an hour long. My favorite is the $800 jar of colored rocks.


Thanks I'll check it out later. Sounds interesting.

post #123 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post
 


If that's true then you can have a pretty lucrative business with a tiny bit of effort after work. Make them and sell them for $100 on ebay, advertising them to be as good as cardas. $75 profit per sale.

What do you think the vast majority of these supposedly 'boutique' ultra-high end cable-sellers do?  Exactly that.  Except that you're drastically underestimating their margins.

It's all about marketing, promotion, making slick-looking stuff, getting a couple of reviews posted and the hype-train moving.  And making sure that on an elementary level your product is not deficient of course.  The hard part is getting the hype-train rolling, that requires more cash than product development and production.

post #124 of 211
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
 

What do you think the vast majority of these supposedly 'boutique' ultra-high end cable-sellers do?  Exactly that.  Except that you're drastically underestimating their margins.

It's all about marketing, promotion, making slick-looking stuff, getting a couple of reviews posted and the hype-train moving.  And making sure that on an elementary level your product is not deficient of course.  The hard part is getting the hype-train rolling, that requires more cash than product development and production.


Oh no he didn't!

post #125 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post
 


I have a decent DAC and a good amp, my laptop and my lg g flex have 24 bit 192khz dacs and sufficient amplification.

I facepalmed then lol'ed.

post #126 of 211
Thread Starter 

The LG G2 and the LG G Flex are known to have top of the line Wolfson 192 khz audiophile DACs.

 

By the way, do you people with old expensive DACs from 2008 and earlier realize that you're probably using obsolete and outdated technology? It's like having a computer from 2008.


Edited by ag8908 - 2/26/14 at 5:40pm
post #127 of 211

They might have the best chip, but it's the implementation arround it that is important, and smartphones focus ain't DAC implementation.

post #128 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post
 

The LG G2 and the LG G Flex are known to have top of the line Wolfson 192 khz audiophile DACs.

 

By the way, do you people with old expensive DACs from 2008 and earlier realize that you're probably using obsolete and outdated technology? It's like having a computer from 2008.

:D I think it's a pretty safe bet to state that some of the posters here have probably forgotten more about DAC/AMP technology and topology than what constitutes the sum total of your current knowledge.

 

If you think it's possible to drive a pair of LCD's or an HD-800 to their full extent using the preamp section of a DAC....then I'm afraid you're deluded.  Set aside your prejudice, go to a good audio store and take your time to audition a couple of setups.

 

Errare humanum est, in errore perseverare stultum. (Seneca)

post #129 of 211
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
 

:D I think it's a pretty safe bet to state that some of the posters here have probably forgotten more about DAC/AMP technology and topology than what constitutes the sum total of your current knowledge.

 

If you think it's possible to drive a pair of LCD's or an HD-800 to their full extent using the preamp section of a DAC....then I'm afraid you're deluded.  Set aside your prejudice, go to a good audio store and take your time to audition a couple of setups.

 

Errare humanum est, in errore perseverare stultum. (Seneca)

 

Similarly, I'm sure the Mayans had more knowledge about the benefits of human sacrifice than the spanish invaders. Not all "knowledge" is helpful. You're just sacrificing your imagination, money and convenience (the bulkiness of the amp) over a fantasy. A watt is a watt whether it's created by a headphone jack or an amp. It's just energy.

post #130 of 211
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem0o View Post
 

They might have the best chip, but it's the implementation arround it that is important, and smartphones focus ain't DAC implementation.


The last generation wolfson dac was a quad core chip with 600 MIPs of processing power. http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/media_centre/item/Introducing_the_industrys_first_quad_core_HD_Audio_Processor_SoC/

 

I'm not even sure what their latest DAC has.

 

That's right, a good DAC needs to have processing power, something that overpriced hobby project built in someone's garage in 2003 and sold to you for $1,000 doesn't have. Sorry.

post #131 of 211

It isn't smart to put a lot of money into DACs and players. The technology keeps improving and new formats keep getting created. I made the mistake of buying a very expensive DVD/SACD deck. It's swell, but now I want to play blu-rays and use an optical or HDMI out, not analog. Plus, it skips on DVD-Rs. The $120 Sony blu-ray player I got to replace it runs rings around it and has the same great sound quality. And for $120, I can afford to replace it six or seven times and still not pay as much as that lousy DVD/SACD player.


Edited by bigshot - 2/26/14 at 6:44pm
post #132 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post
 

 

Similarly, I'm sure the Mayans had more knowledge about the benefits of human sacrifice than the spanish invaders. Not all "knowledge" is helpful. You're just sacrificing your imagination, money and convenience (the bulkiness of the amp) over a fantasy. A watt is a watt whether it's created by a headphone jack or an amp. It's just energy.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post
 


The last generation wolfson dac was a quad core chip with 600 MIPs of processing power. http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/media_centre/item/Introducing_the_industrys_first_quad_core_HD_Audio_Processor_SoC/

 

I'm not even sure what their latest DAC has.

 

That's right, a good DAC needs to have processing power, something that overpriced hobby project built in someone's garage in 2003 and sold to you for $1,000 doesn't have. Sorry.

 

Dude, I hope you are trolling right now. You ain't listening or even trying to understand some of the great post people have been posting, trying to help you figure out how all this stuff works. You're just repeating the same non-sense mixed with tons of electronic misconceptions/lack of knowledge.

GL with your newsletter.

post #133 of 211
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem0o View Post
 

 

 

Dude, I hope you are trolling right now. You ain't listening or even trying to understand some of the great post people have been posting, trying to help you figure out how all this stuff works. You're just repeating the same non-sense mixed with tons of electronic misconceptions/lack of knowledge.

GL with your newsletter.

 

GL with your belief that a watt of energy is somehow different because it comes out of a $1,000 amp, or that MIPs and processing power don't matter for DACs.

 

That's why in the OP I said I didn't want to debate these things. If you want to believe that all that wasted money on often obsolete technology is helpful it's up to you.

post #134 of 211

Right, I shouldn't have tried to argue if you didn't ask for it from the start.

To each their own point of view.

Peace.


Edited by Rem0o - 2/26/14 at 7:49pm
post #135 of 211
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem0o View Post
 

Right, I shouldn't have tried to argue if you didn't ask for it from the start.

To each their own point of view.

Peace.

 

There will never be peace between the various audiophile factions in head-fi.

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