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Violectric HPA V281 - Vorsprung durch Balanced - Page 25

post #361 of 1068
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx79ez08 View Post
 

 

My unit is behaving exactly the same as your. Pretty sure this is intentional and how Violectric decide to implement it. If you look at their phono amp the V600 which have similar balance adjustment function, then it become pretty clear:

 

http://cdn.head-fi.org/6/62/900x900px-LL-62367098_V6002013Front.jpeg

 

Thanks. 

Even though I'm perplexed why they have chosen the "poor man's balance" approach in their flagship unit, it's still reassuring that the unit works as designed.

post #362 of 1068
Quote:
Originally Posted by PleasantSounds View Post

Speaking of balance, I do have one minor gripe: the way the balance control works in my unit. When I turn it to the right, the right channel goes louder, but there's no change in the left. When turning left, it attenuates the right channel but the left remains unchanged. In the end the outcome is the balance shift, but it also impacts the overall volume level. I don't believe it is like that by design, but inspecting the interior failed to unravel any issues with the assembly quality. It's not a big concern as I hardly ever need to touch the balance, but at this price point I'm not too keen to accept anything less than perfect. Can someone please confirm that their unit behaves as expected (i.e. when volume in one channel goes down, it goes up in the other) when using the balance control? 

So what you are saying is, the balance knob is behaving like a volume control for the right channel only?
What an odd implementation...
post #363 of 1068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper2005 View Post


So what you are saying is, the balance knob is behaving like a volume control for the right channel only?
What an odd implementation...


Like one eyepiece on a pair of binoculars?

post #364 of 1068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper2005 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PleasantSounds View Post

Speaking of balance, I do have one minor gripe: the way the balance control works in my unit. When I turn it to the right, the right channel goes louder, but there's no change in the left. When turning left, it attenuates the right channel but the left remains unchanged. In the end the outcome is the balance shift, but it also impacts the overall volume level. I don't believe it is like that by design, but inspecting the interior failed to unravel any issues with the assembly quality. It's not a big concern as I hardly ever need to touch the balance, but at this price point I'm not too keen to accept anything less than perfect. Can someone please confirm that their unit behaves as expected (i.e. when volume in one channel goes down, it goes up in the other) when using the balance control? 

So what you are saying is, the balance knob is behaving like a volume control for the right channel only?
What an odd implementation...


if the amp is fully balanced from gain to power stage, maybe it has something to do with the balance control operating on both single ended (v220) amps inside, one for the left and one for the right channel, independently, so you will have a balance control operating on both channels simultaneous only out of the balanced xlr output, which is again also quite odd, but could make sense, if one wants to avoid using balanced potentiometers for whatever reason


Edited by roskodan - 8/25/14 at 6:50am
post #365 of 1068
Quote:
Originally Posted by roskodan View Post
 


if the amp is fully balanced from gain to power stage, maybe it has something to do with the balance control operating on both single ended (v220) amps inside, one for the left and one for the right channel, independently, so you will have a balance control operating on both channels simultaneous only out of the balanced xlr output, which is again also quite add, but could make sense, if one wants to avoid using balanced potentiometers for whatever reason

 

Nope. I'm using mostly the balanced out and it acts the same way as SE.

Think of balance control as a secondary volume pot, just with one of the sections connected backwards. That's how it is usually done. If you can control volume, you can control balance.

post #366 of 1068
Quote:
Originally Posted by PleasantSounds View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roskodan View Post
 

...only out of the balanced xlr output, which is again also quite add, but could make sense, if one wants to avoid using balanced potentiometers for whatever reason

...Think of balance control as a secondary volume pot, just with one of the sections connected backwards.

that was my assumption, in which case you would need a balanced aka 4 channel pot for it to work on both channels simultaneously, or not?

 

which makes me wonder if the volume pot is balanced aka dual stereo aka 4 channel?


Edited by roskodan - 8/25/14 at 7:09am
post #367 of 1068
Quote:
Originally Posted by roskodan View Post
 

that was my assumption, in which case you would need a balanced aka 4 channel pot for it to work on both channels simultaneously, or not?

 

which makes me wonder if the volume pot is balanced aka dual stereo aka 4 channel?


if you open up the V281 the balance control and volume control use the same alps rk27 pot, and are attached upside down onto a pcb board that is mounted diagonally(so both pots line up externally in their positions). The issues being stated from the balance control are not normal operation. As I mentioned previously normally it just raises the volume of one channel and slightly lowers the other, and vice versa, +/- 6dB. If it is only affecting one channel, then it is not working right. Volume pots are not always perfect, I'm sure it's just a defect inside the pot, and a simply replacement would fix the issue.

 

edit- When working properly it should give you the sensation of sliding the center image side to side or your head. play a vocal track (which is usually in the center) and move the balance control side to side, the voice should feel as if you are moving a dot in front of your head to the left or right up to a certain degree.


Edited by saxelrod92 - 8/25/14 at 8:46pm
post #368 of 1068
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxelrod92 View Post


if you open up the V281 the balance control and volume control use the same alps rk27 pot, and are attached upside down onto a pcb board that is mounted diagonally(so both pots line up externally in their positions). The issues being stated from the balance control are not normal operation. As I mentioned previously normally it just raises the volume of one channel and slightly lowers the other, and vice versa, +/- 6dB. If it is only affecting one channel, then it is not working right. Volume pots are not always perfect, I'm sure it's just a defect inside the pot, and a simply replacement would fix the issue.

 

edit- When working properly it should give you the sensation of sliding the center image side to side or your head. play a vocal track (which is usually in the center) and move the balance control side to side, the voice should feel as if you are moving a dot in front of your head to the left or right up to a certain degree.

 

Well, I've gone a step further. I have played a sine wave from a generator and recorded the output back on the PC. Looking at the signal amplitude in Audacity it is clear that signal in one channel remains unchanged, while the other goes up or down with the pot rotation.

 

The effect regarding the center of the image is the same - it shifts to one or the other side. But at the same time it gets louder or quieter and I have to compensate with volume.

 

I have just contacted my vendor and they're going to find out from Violectric what the real story is.

post #369 of 1068

 

 

Quick update after almost 3 weeks of balanced listening. (to almost every genre, always with the best recordings I could find).

 

I finally have come to the conclusion that with the LCD-2, the balanced output doesnt deliver better bass/mids or trebble, the SE output sounds to my ears close to none in differences about this.

 

BUT, the thing you notice is the soundstage and imaging, overall balance of these 2 things. With the balanced output the LCD-2 opens more with wider recordings and images better with closer recordings, (of course wider ones image is better too) and this, in the very first days made me think that the balanced output sounded more neutral, which I was not very sure about liking it better or not.

 

But I havent noticed more trebble, or more forward mids, or deeper/punchier bass. All you get from SE (which is very good) you get it from BAL, but with the soundstage and image improvement. And I frikking love that.

 

This also helps to define the sound better, with vocals, guitars, bass, etc. "It cleans the sound" a little bit.

 

Conclusion for me is that with this combo I have the sound that allows me to listen with extreme detail and no harsh at all. I dont need more (doh, this is not cheap xD).


Edited by Megalomaniak - 8/26/14 at 1:44am
post #370 of 1068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
 

So last night I sent Hans in, a highly-skilled water Ninja from zhe great lake of Bodensee, look what he found:

 

 

 

 

Hallo da Fegefeur,

Hast du vielleicht auch einige Bilder von der V220 Verstärker?

Grüße aus Neu Zeland


Edited by Zkadoush - 8/26/14 at 9:10pm
post #371 of 1068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalomaniak View Post

 

do not forget to try the balanced xlr output at -6dB pre-gain :cool:

post #372 of 1068

About Balance Control inside V220 / V281 / V600

 

The standard balance control interacts between both channels and will surely affect the crosstalk in a negative way.

If you dont want to affect the crosstalk simply give up any balance control - what is made by most manufacturers of high end gear.

 

Or think about an alternative way to interact between both channels if you think this might be a neccessary feature.

So did we !! 
Our balance control will not affect the crosstalk because it is acting in only one channel.

The result is the same, the center position will move a bit from left to right or vice versa when turning the knob.

Also it is intended to do this only by +/- 6 dB
Because when the imbalances from the source, the cans, the hearing will be greater, a balance control would not help.

So everbody is invited to decide if this implementation is rather odd or ingenious  :beerchug:

 

Reading the manual (page 17) would also explain the reason. 

 

Greetz

 

Fried

post #373 of 1068
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdg View Post
 

About Balance Control inside V220 / V281 / V600

 

The standard balance control interacts between both channels and will surely affect the crosstalk in a negative way.

If you dont want to affect the crosstalk simply give up any balance control - what is made by most manufacturers of high end gear.

 

Or think about an alternative way to interact between both channels if you think this might be a neccessary feature.

So did we !! 
Our balance control will not affect the crosstalk because it is acting in only one channel.

The result is the same, the center position will move a bit from left to right or vice versa when turning the knob.

Also it is intended to do this only by +/- 6 dB
Because when the imbalances from the source, the cans, the hearing will be greater, a balance control would not help.

So everbody is invited to decide if this implementation is rather odd or ingenious  :beerchug:

 

Reading the manual (page 17) would also explain the reason. 

 

Greetz

 

Fried



Hi Fried,

Is it possible to download the V281/V220 manuals as Pdf?

Cheers

post #374 of 1068

Manuals from V220 / V281


can be found here:   http://violectric-usa.com/downloads  


Edited by fdg - 8/27/14 at 11:16pm
post #375 of 1068
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdg View Post
 

Manuals from V220 / V281


can be found here:   http://violectric-usa.com/downloads  


Thanks Fried,

Checking them out now.

Cheers

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