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Violectric HPA V281 - Vorsprung durch Balanced - Page 182

post #2716 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by novicez1 View Post

To a certain extent, as the higher gain offerred by the balanced DAC allows you to set the pregain on your amplifier to a lower level, hence possibly avoiding distortion from higher amplifier gain.

 

 

But otherwise you get no improvement in the signal path when using balanced in for balanced out?

And the amp will keep using it's 2 boards for the balanced output?

I am asking because I am trying to figure out how I will connect my setup in case I'd buy a V281.

I'd prefer to connect it unbalanced if it doesn't matter.

 

I also wonder how many wires there are in a balanced headphone cable with dual 3-pin xlr connectors, 4 or 6? If I'd cut a cable like that and connect it to a 4-pin xlr connector, would that work? Or would I need a 1/4 terminated cable to reterminate it to 4-pin xlr?


Edited by AppleheadMay - 3/19/17 at 1:07am
post #2717 of 2847
Yeah you can use balanced output with single ended in - that's what I'm doing with mine. Balanced input is only used for noise rejection.

You can buy a 4 pin xlr to 2x 3pin xlr adapter cable, so they've obviously connected 2x 3 pin xlr cables into a 4 pin xlr connector, so yeah.
post #2718 of 2847

@AppleheadMay 

 

There's quite a handful of headfier's experience (mine included) that the V281 sounds leaner/faster as you lower the gain from unity down to -12 while it sounds more meatier/lusher as you increase the gain to +12. The sonic changes are quite perceivable, but not really a day and night difference. If you want the leaner/faster presentation, I think going XLR would be the best route so that you'd still have plenty of headroom volume for really quiet masters. (+4db replay gain and above).

 

As long as you can both satisfy your sonic tweaks and volume range using RCA's then there's really no need to chase XLR connections from your DAC.

 

4 pin XLR Balanced cables have a minimum of 4 wires, 2 each channel. You can have your unbalanced stock cable reterminated to 4pin XLR if buying a custom one is out of your budget. For dual 3 pin XLR, you'll need a minimum of 6 wires, 3 each channel.

post #2719 of 2847
A balanced​ headphone connection only consists of 4 wires. Just like a pair of stereo speakers, 2 wires left & 2 wires right.

In a balanced headphone system each channel (L & R) has its own ground isolated from one another. There are a total of 4 actual amplifiers in use. A pair of amps are bridged together, one in phase & one 180 degrees out of phase for the left channel and anther pair for the right channel.

Dual 3 pin XLR connectors were used years ago because they were very common. Only 2 pins on each connector were actually used for balanced headphone connections. Someone then discovered the 4 pin XLR (used mostly in the video market as a power connector). This has now become the standard and is obviously more convenient. Dual 1/4" plugs were also used on some early balanced headphone systems.

Many portable players are using a TRRS 4 contact (tip, ring, ring, sleeve) 2.5 mm connector. Why? I have no idea as this is a horrible choice for a portable balanced system! They are to small and intermittent not to mention fragile. The mini 4 pin XLR would be perfect for this application. Maybe that will become​ the standard years from now. One can only hope. smily_headphones1.gif
post #2720 of 2847

Thank you very much guys, that was exactly the kind of info I was looking for, I know how to recable now and I see I have a choice concerning the inputs.

post #2721 of 2847

Well, my V281 is ordered. Standard volume control and no dac, black with silver feet. Should have it in a week or so from what the dealer told me.

Looking into reterminating some of my phones now and getting new cables for two others.

 

I didn't take the remote control volume since I believe it''s the same volume control with a remote? Don't really need a remote.

And the stepped attenuator option? Might be better but I don't like stepped that much, had it on an amp once and never could find the exact volume I wanted. Wonder if it's that much better ...


Edited by AppleheadMay - 3/19/17 at 10:37am
post #2722 of 2847
Cool, congratulations! Looking forward to your thoughts about how it pairs with SEM1 balanced.
post #2723 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by phonomat View Post

Cool, congratulations! Looking forward to your thoughts about how it pairs with SEM1 balanced.

 

I ordered the Pioneer balanced cable and will reterminate it with a 4-pin plug. I thnik the stock cable is of good quality and it's a pain to find the connectors for the headphone side anyway.

What cable are you using by the way?

post #2724 of 2847
Thread Starter 

Got the XLR cable from Beyerdynamic's T1 2G/T5P 2G line for an excellent price to match with the AH-D7200 from DENON and as expected it proves that to make full use of this amp you gotta go balanced. Surely it's logical per design but experiencing the "upgrade" is simply another (joyful) matter. I wish headphone makers would go 4-PIN balanced with included adapters to 6,3mm but alas - that'll never happen when there's more money to make from those that cannot build themselves. DENON doesn't offer one so I had to look for one that fits the female plugs. These are it and are also lighter than the original cables, cutting the luxurious sleeve down to reasonable levels, wired with the same 7N OFC.

 

So how does the AH-D7200 improve when running balanced? First it improves slam and kick. The headphone hits harder now, the bass is held even more with an iron grip. Some tracks I got used to before now kick so hard - it's a another form of deep satisfaction I have to be careful about. I'm watching the volume levels of course. Soundstage gains width and height (typical for the V281), more breathing room for the 7200 to shine (details, separation). Depth is unfortunately not the strongest trait of these DENONs, at least compared to the HD800 - which of course are another level in that matter.

 

At 9 o'clock the D7200 is already at maximum levels for my taste. I need 32 Bit volume control. :ph34r: (sometime next year) 


Edited by Fegefeuer - 3/20/17 at 3:50pm
post #2725 of 2847

You can also consider lowering the pre-gain on the back of the v281, which should give you more increments of control with the volume pot.  The instructions are in the manual.

post #2726 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post

Got the XLR cable from Beyerdynamic's T1 2G/T5P 2G line for an excellent price to match with the AH-D7200 from DENON and as expected it proves that to make full use of this amp you gotta go balanced. Surely it's logical per design but experiencing the "upgrade" is simply another (joyful) matter. I wish headphone makers would go 4-PIN balanced with included adapters to 6,3mm but alas - that'll never happen when there's more money to make from those that cannot build themselves. DENON doesn't offer one so I had to look for one that fits the female plugs. These are it and are also lighter than the original cables, cutting the luxurious sleeve down to reasonable levels, wired with the same 7N OFC.

So how does the AH-D7200 improve when running balanced? First it improves slam and kick. The headphone hits harder now, the bass is held even more with an iron grip. Some tracks I got used to before now kick so hard - it's a another form of deep satisfaction I have to be careful about. I'm watching the volume levels of course. Soundstage gains width and height (typical for the V281), more breathing room for the 7200 to shine (details, separation). Depth is unfortunately not the strongest trait of these DENONs, at least compared to the HD800 - which of course are another level in that matter.

At 9 o'clock the D7200 is already at maximum levels for my taste. I need 32 Bit volume control. ph34r.gif  (sometime next year) 

Good tip on the cable, a more affordable solution, thanks for that!

But what do you mean by 32-bit volume control? The stepped attenuator option on the V281?
post #2727 of 2847
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shea View Post
 

You can also consider lowering the pre-gain on the back of the v281, which should give you more increments of control with the volume pot.  The instructions are in the manual.

 

I'm already at -14db. 

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleheadMay View Post


Good tip on the cable, a more affordable solution, thanks for that!

But what do you mean by 32-bit volume control? The stepped attenuator option on the V281?

 

 

A DAC like the V850 where I can adjust/lower the volume to get more volume control out of the V281 (past/towards 12 o'clock) and not worry about losing bits. 

post #2728 of 2847

"I'm already at -14db."

 

The pre-gain switches on the v281 are only for -6 and -12 dB (and +6/12), so I assume you mean you've already selected -12 dB for both channels.  The headphones you're using are remarkably easy to drive at just 25 Ohm impedance and 105dB/mW sensitivity, though, so I guess I'm not surprised the v281 can drive them without breaking into a trot.

post #2729 of 2847
Thread Starter 

you can get -14db out of -12 and -6. 

post #2730 of 2847

Was it ever confirmed that we shall be adjusting more than one switch at a time? I recall the manual stating otherwise.

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