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Violectric HPA V281 - Vorsprung durch Balanced - Page 94

post #1396 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredrikT92 View Post
 

I dont want to loose the great qualities the Mjolnir give, like dynamics and fun.

So I dont want to downgrade obviously, I just want less brightness.  But I guess to get such,  V281 and Ragnarok is the only solid options?


as an owner of both the Lcd.Xand the Violectric Hpa 281 i can tell you that you get more of everything with more air and control.

It's easier to listen ,fuller

this is also because of running balanced.

This is  also compared to the mjolnir.

hope this helped you.

no regrets here

post #1397 of 1408

I think V281 is more dynamic than the Mjolnir, and certainly more fun (for me) to use! It's just not so glaring up top. 

 

Of course there are other great options to consider. GSX, Taurus, various tube amps from Eddie Current, DNA, Icon, etc. 

post #1398 of 1408

I can only get the hold of amps from Schiit, Violectric and Auralic, unfortunaly.

Else I have to order from US and pay tons of taxes and shipping :D

 

@project86:

 

You who have heard both LCD-X and LCD-3F, how do they compare when it comes to engagment/intimate with the V281 or Auralic?

Althought the LCD-X is better then the LCD-2 overall, I kinda miss getting "dragged" into the music!

But maybe that will change with a amp swap?  

post #1399 of 1408

I think the LCD-3F is mostly balanced (compared to my pre-Fazor LCD-2 for example), with a slight leaning towards lush, dynamic, musical sound.

 

LCD-X is more analytical and has even less of that slight leaning (practically none, unless you compare directly to H800 for example). 

 

I'd definitely use the V281 with LCD-X to get a more engaging, inviting sound. LCD-3F I could go either way.... Taurus would be a little more energetic, while V281 would be smoother, more muscular. 

 

If you aren't loving the LCD-X now, an amp probably won't change it. But if you are on the fence, a different amp might tip the scales just enough to enjoy it. 

post #1400 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredrikT92 View Post
 

I dont want to loose the great qualities the Mjolnir give, like dynamics and fun.

So I dont want to downgrade obviously, I just want less brightness.  But I guess to get such,  V281 and Ragnarok is the only solid options?

With the LCD-Xs, the V200 will give you the same fun and dynamics as the V281. Not exactly sure what you mean by dynamics, though; SNR is the same in V200 and V281 if that's what you have in mind. The difference between the V200 and the V281 is in the higher output power and output voltage, that's all, you won't get more than that and a balanced output. If you want more gain, you've got plenty of that already in the pre-gain settings of the V100 to blow your brains out on a pair of LCD-Xs.

There's hence no downgrade whatsoever. The Benchmark and the Anedio are as competent as the other Violectric Amps mentioned above when it comes to driving the LCD-Xs, the difference is in sound signature: where the Violectrics offer more bass and a slight warmth, the Benchmark and Anedio offer more detail retrieval and articulation, as they are also state of the art DACs - an all-in-one solution hard to beat at that price and for your particular headphones.

The V281 has a lot more output power and voltage, and is a solution for cans like the Abyss, the HE-6, AKG-1000, etc. Not for a pair of LCD-X that are made to be driven by an iPod. More power will not make any difference in sound quality! I would also dare to say that the balanced output of the V181 is - within the same argument - going to give you the qualitative advantage of the balanced output of the V281, as the extra power of the V281 is not at all needed to drive a pair of LCD-Xs.

I can't get past the 5 first marks of the V281's volume pot with my LCD-Xs (without touching the pre-gain dip switches), and rarely need to go beyond 12 o'clock on my DAC2-DX. I can also not get past 3 o'clock with most recordings using my HD800s on my DAC2-DX. I can't even get to max volume on my iPod with my LCD-Xs! The V200 is a fantastic Amp, with specs that probably make it THE reference out there, and the substantial improvements of the V220 and V281, are in adding a couple of V200s for balanced configuration, a larger power supply and the volume pots. Aside from that, the V200 design is intact. I would say the most significant upgrade are the potentiometers that Violectric has added to the V220 and V281.

My intention is not to disuade you from buying the V281, it's probably the very best Amp out there in any respect, and it has set the bar impossibly high for anything with any the pretension of rivaling it. My recommendation is very simple: if you absolutely have to have balanced output and an overachieving state of the art headphone Amp, there's way more than enough juice in the V181 to accommodate your LCD-Xs (I can't get past 11 o'clock on my V100 not using any extra gain!). If what you're looking for is a clean Amp and a state of the art D/A converter - and believe me, a good DAC makes ALL the difference - the Anedio or the Benchmark have state of the art headphone Amps as well, yet not with the huge output power and output voltage of the Violectrics, but more than enough for your LCD-Xs, and come at a nearly ridiculous price for the bang they offer. If you don't plan to get any more cans in the future, you're good with the V181, or with the Benchmark or the Anedio. The improvement of the V281 over the V181 and V200 - in my opinion -  come at a very steep price difference for driving just a pair of LCD-Xs. If I had no plans of getting more cans in the future, I would have gone for the V200 + Benchmark DAC2.


Cheers!


Edited by Zkadoush - 4/6/15 at 3:24pm
post #1401 of 1408

lol there's lots of very valid points over the past dozen or so comments but I feel like we haven't helped you make a decision at all...

post #1402 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by mulder01 View Post

lol there's lots of very valid points over the past dozen or so comments but I feel like we haven't helped you make a decision at all...

The V281 is worth more than double the $ of the V200 as it has 2 improved V200's inside. Since he is only going to be using a LCD-X he doesn't "need" all of the power the V281 has but why buy something that just has enough and strain it all the time. The V281 works well with anything, even IEM's on lower gain settings or the HE-6 on high. It's basically a 1 and done Soild State Amp. And with this hobby, 1 headphone turns into 2 turns into 10. If he truly will only even own the LCD-X and doesn't like the bright sounding amps, and doesn't want the power of the V281, get a balanced tube amp. I wouldn't consider the V200 for my LCD-X after hearing the improvements in the Balanced V281 vs the SE V281 which is basically a single improved V200.
post #1403 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostchili View Post


The V281 is worth more than double the $ of the V200 as it has 2 improved V200's inside. Since he is only going to be using a LCD-X he doesn't "need" all of the power the V281 has but why buy something that just has enough and strain it all the time. The V281 works well with anything, even IEM's on lower gain settings or the HE-6 on high. It's basically a 1 and done Soild State Amp. And with this hobby, 1 headphone turns into 2 turns into 10. If he truly will only even own the LCD-X and doesn't like the bright sounding amps, and doesn't want the power of the V281, get a balanced tube amp. I wouldn't consider the V200 for my LCD-X after hearing the improvements in the Balanced V281 vs the SE V281 which is basically a single improved V200.


nicely said !!

post #1404 of 1408

Violectric to introduce a new D/A converter: DAC V850



 

 

 

Violectric will introduce a new D/A converter during the May 2015 HiEnd exhibition in Munich Germany.
 
The case and the front panel will share the familiar look of our well known DAC V800.
 
The DAC V850 features 4 digital inputs: balanced AES/EBU via XLR, coaxial SPDIF via RCA, optical via
Tos-Link, and Asynchronous USB. All inputs are capable of PCM up to 24 bits at 192 kHz.

Topology:

The digital signal is first routed to re-sampling circuitry where virtually all incoming jitter is eliminated.
Then up to 4 times up-sampling can be selected from the front panel.
This process can be completely disabled or set to “best” operation which means that all incoming digital signals will be normalized to 96 kHz.
We have found this to be the optimal frequency to achieve the best audio quality when re-sampling lower bit rate data.

A digital output is also provided which mirrors either the active input signal or the digital signal that has been processed by the re-sampler.
Our design features a 32 bit double mono converter architecture which consists of two 32 bit (PCM1795) converters for each channel.
This serves to enhance the dynamic range and minimize distortion.

The analog output circuitry is fully balanced from the D/A converters to the analog outputs.
This is very similar to the circuitry design we used in the DAC V800 but, with further refinement in the output stage.
The maximum balanced analog output level may be set internally to +24 / +18 / +15 / +12 / or +6 dBu to ensure a perfect match with your other equipment.
The unbalanced analog outputs will always be 9 dB lower compared to the balanced output setting.

The volume control is again all digital just like we used in the DAC V800.
There is no scratching, no channel imbalance, and no reduced crosstalk which can be the case with an analog volume implementation.
This is why we prefer digital all the way through our design. Yes, there is some reduced resolution when lowering the volume.
However since we first up-sample the input to 32 bits we have at least 8 bits with no definitive content.
This gives us 8 x 6 = 48 dB of gain reduction available to lower the output volume and prevents any degradation of the original digital signal.

The DAC V850 may be equipped with an optional remote control for volume and input selection.
A motor driven potentiometer serves to set the attenuation.

The DAC V850's front panel will be available in BLACK  and SILVER.

The estimated price will be around 1175 Euro excl. VAT, the remote control option adds 210 Euro excl. VAT.

post #1405 of 1408

So I'm going to ask the obvious question... What is the difference between the V800 and V850?  Same chassis by the look of it

 

I'm guessing a new chip that we can get drivers for?

And a usb 24/192 card as standard?  Can the USB card be swapped out if ever a problem like the current driver problem happens again?

And you say it will be introduced next month - does that mean it's available to buy next month?

post #1406 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdg View Post
 

Violectric to introduce a new D/A converter: DAC V850



 

 

 

Violectric will introduce a new D/A converter during the May 2015 HiEnd exhibition in Munich Germany.
 
The case and the front panel will share the familiar look of our well known DAC V800.
 
The DAC V850 features 4 digital inputs: balanced AES/EBU via XLR, coaxial SPDIF via RCA, optical via
Tos-Link, and Asynchronous USB. All inputs are capable of PCM up to 24 bits at 192 kHz.

Topology:

The digital signal is first routed to re-sampling circuitry where virtually all incoming jitter is eliminated.
Then up to 4 times up-sampling can be selected from the front panel.
This process can be completely disabled or set to “best” operation which means that all incoming digital signals will be normalized to 96 kHz.
We have found this to be the optimal frequency to achieve the best audio quality when re-sampling lower bit rate data.

A digital output is also provided which mirrors either the active input signal or the digital signal that has been processed by the re-sampler.
Our design features a 32 bit double mono converter architecture which consists of two 32 bit (PCM1795) converters for each channel.
This serves to enhance the dynamic range and minimize distortion.

The analog output circuitry is fully balanced from the D/A converters to the analog outputs.
This is very similar to the circuitry design we used in the DAC V800 but, with further refinement in the output stage.
The maximum balanced analog output level may be set internally to +24 / +18 / +15 / +12 / or +6 dBu to ensure a perfect match with your other equipment.
The unbalanced analog outputs will always be 9 dB lower compared to the balanced output setting.

The volume control is again all digital just like we used in the DAC V800.
There is no scratching, no channel imbalance, and no reduced crosstalk which can be the case with an analog volume implementation.
This is why we prefer digital all the way through our design. Yes, there is some reduced resolution when lowering the volume.
However since we first up-sample the input to 32 bits we have at least 8 bits with no definitive content.
This gives us 8 x 6 = 48 dB of gain reduction available to lower the output volume and prevents any degradation of the original digital signal.

The DAC V850 may be equipped with an optional remote control for volume and input selection.
A motor driven potentiometer serves to set the attenuation.

The DAC V850's front panel will be available in BLACK  and SILVER.

The estimated price will be around 1175 Euro excl. VAT, the remote control option adds 210 Euro excl. VAT.

 

An upgrade is always welcome, especially to an already great performing DAC like the V800. It would be very interesting to know more about the specific differences between the V800 and the V850; both about the technologies that set them apart and the new features. You had also announced a more basic or downsized version of the V800, with less features but with the same performance; will that unit also be coming as a alternative to the V800 DAC?

You have mentioned before in this thread that both you and John Siau from Benchmark prioritize THD and linearity over SNR. I believe this is an important aspect to understand, could you perhaps elaborate a bit more on that topic?

Cheers!

post #1407 of 1408

@ mulder01:

 

The differences between V800 and V850 are more evolution than revolution.
I don´t think that there can be a revolution concerning DACs these days.

But the differences are more than cosmetical.

First, the base of the USB circuitry is not Tenor any more but X-Mos based.

So we are sure to have a software support also for upcoming OS like Windows 10.


Second, we now have a double-mone architecture with two converters per channel.

This will not be noticeable in therms of THD or SNR but it sharpens our philosophy "no sound".

V850 is more open, more detailed, has a bigger and deeper soundstage but still retains a maximum neutrality compared with V800.

For our opinion all this is not due to the 32 bit deep conversion but has its source in the dual converters per channel and our refined analog output circuitry.

To be honest, 32 bit deep processing is useful in mixing consoles or other equipment where data is merged, filters and equalisers are set or rooms are created.
In a D/A converter, at the endpoint of digital data, it is nice to have but nothing more.

Third, there had been lots of customers asking for a remote control in the past because our D/A served to drive (active) speakers directly.
DAC V850 offers the opportunity to be remote controlled !

 

And of course there is a better power supply, better signal tracing and much more details.


Other things which made V800 famous will remain:
- The compact size
- The range of digital inputs
- The selectable range of resampling
- The volume control in the digital domain
- Five different analog output voltage settings without affecting the output impedance
- Balanced and unbalanced outputs which can be used simultaneously because they have their own drivers

 

 

@ Zkadoush and others

... if somebody would be so kind to open a new thread concerning DAC V850 in "dedicated source components", this would be the right place to further discuss about our new gear.

As a member of trade I am allowed answer to questions but it is not welcome to open a thread.

post #1408 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdg View Post

 

... if somebody would be so kind to open a new thread concerning DAC V850 in "dedicated source components", this would be the right place to further discuss about our new gear.

As a member of trade I am allowed answer to questions but it is not welcome to open a thread.

 

Done:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/761936/violectric-dac-v850

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