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The Astell and Kern AK240 Impressions Thread - Page 92

post #1366 of 2099
Quote:
Originally Posted by flymetothemoon View Post

Ready for your impression sharing yet?
Some very preliminary ones on the multi DAP face off thread. So far RWAK240 cannot fully replace 901 but completes it well.
post #1367 of 2099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauntere View Post
 

 

Yes, keen to know if you think the mod makes enough difference.

Sure the mod will make the difference only if 

 

i/ you want it

ii/ you need it

iii/ you are willing to spend that extra

post #1368 of 2099
Quote:
Originally Posted by flymetothemoon View Post
 

Sure the mod will make the difference only if 

 

i/ you want it

ii/ you need it

iii/ you are willing to spend that extra

 

LOL that's a big help...   I am interested to read what differences Mim hears between the modded version and the stock.

 

The money doesn't matter. I certainly don't need it. It is always only a want..:D

post #1369 of 2099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauntere View Post
 

 

LOL that's a big help...   I am interested to read what differences Mim hears between the modded version and the stock.

 

The money doesn't matter. I certainly don't need it. It is always only a want..:D

"only a want" solved all issues...happy shopping.

 

Cheers

post #1370 of 2099
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

I read Shigzeo heard hiss. I however do not hear any with my UERM and F111. The F111 picked up noise in the Herus but nothing on the AK240. The TG334, which is a hiss and noise magnet, was completely silent with the RWAK100 when I owned that combo. The RWAK100 was a black void. I've been extremely pleased with the AK240. From my experience I'd say AK has a reputation for very silent devices.

Anyway I feel for anyone picking up noticeable hiss. It's certainly annoying, so I caved and bought the iem perk on my Geek Wave.

I've been considered the 'hiss king' since 2007. My hearing has no doubt gotten worse since then, but my sensitivity to noise is the same as ever it was. My hiss benchmarking earphones, the CT7, are as bad as I am. They are far more sensitive than the TG334. I also have qualified by suggesting that the CT7 is very sensitive and that most people will probably get in just fine with the level of noise of the AK240.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfary View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrainferno View Post
 

 

He says the DX90 has lower noise than then 240, he told me. He has everything up on Ohm as well: http://ohm-image.net/opinion/audiophile/rmaa-summary-ibasso-dx90-vs-astell-kern-ak240

 



Now i'm 100% sure that for balanced armature iems there are many choices ahead of the AK240.

Noise floor is a critical parameter. As output impedance and AK240 is outperformed there by a plethora of daps.

That kind of noise floor negates the whole point of using high resolution audio.

This is player is placebo and snake oil to nth.

Great idea not so well executed but marketing will fix that. Won't it?

A week as back i listened back to back to an leckerton UHA6II amping an iPod Classi,a modded AK120 and my iPhone 5s and honestly the 5s sounded to me as the UH6Ii where the AK lagged behind audibly.

End of rant. And this is just an opinion.

AK240 has a low noise floor, it's just not the lowest out there. I'm pretty satisfied with it. But, it isn't anywhere near 'ultimate'.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauntere View Post
 

 

Ok so it is not just me and my unit is 100% not defective. Maybe i am blessed with very good hearing ? Good to know i guess.

No, you are not blessed. It's a curse to be sensitive to hiss, trust me. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daseinpdx View Post
 

 

That is NOT a safe conclusion.   That link has been posted before and the problems with the test have been pointed out before.   The test was run with a loop back test using AN EXTERNAL AUDIO SOURCE.   This would at best test how well each is at performing basically as a DAC and/or headphone amp.   Unfortunately, this is not very helpful because the majority of people buy the AK240 or DX90 to use as a DAP - as the audio source itself.  I am assuming that you are encountering problems listening to your AK240 as a DAP and not plugging an external audio source to it.

 

Furthermore, the results even if they were applicable here would only show that distortion and/or noise is higher than the DX90 - but not necessarily translate into the problem you describe.  While it is theoretically possible that your hearing is so good that only you can hear it, but my suspicion is that something more probable would be the cause.  It is regrettable but even 2500 dollar devices can be defective.  I would recommend that you test your device with a variety of different headphones - preferably not just IEMs.

The tester himself pointed out the problems with the test. He's like that. The noise portion of the comment had nothing to do with the hardware test. It had to do with earphones plugged into both units and music played back. In every instance, the AK240 outputs more discernible hiss than the DX90. I also qualify elsewhere that I prefer the sound of the AK240. It is softer, more silky, which is something I'm beginning to dig. 

 

I've now heard three separate AK240's and each one has more noise than my DX90. It's just what it is. Both DAPs output very little noise. One, however, outputs less. If you want truly silent backgrounds, Mezzo HiFi.

post #1371 of 2099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauntere View Post

LOL that's a big help...   I am interested to read what differences Mim hears between the modded version and the stock.

The money doesn't matter. I certainly don't need it. It is always only a want..biggrin.gif
The mod sounds like my wallet is 500$ lighter.

Seriously the description on Vinnies page is what I hear more or less....key point is bass body.

FYI, Kaede sounds great with it but the hiss is NOT negligible.
post #1372 of 2099
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post
 

I've been considered the 'hiss king' since 2007. My hearing has no doubt gotten worse since then, but my sensitivity to noise is the same as ever it was. My hiss benchmarking earphones, the CT7, are as bad as I am. They are far more sensitive than the TG334. I also have qualified by suggesting that the CT7 is very sensitive and that most people will probably get in just fine with the level of noise of the AK240.

 

AK240 has a low noise floor, it's just not the lowest out there. I'm pretty satisfied with it. But, it isn't anywhere near 'ultimate'.

 

No, you are not blessed. It's a curse to be sensitive to hiss, trust me. 

 

The tester himself pointed out the problems with the test. He's like that. The noise portion of the comment had nothing to do with the hardware test. It had to do with earphones plugged into both units and music played back. In every instance, the AK240 outputs more discernible hiss than the DX90. I also qualify elsewhere that I prefer the sound of the AK240. It is softer, more silky, which is something I'm beginning to dig. 

 

I've now heard three separate AK240's and each one has more noise than my DX90. It's just what it is. Both DAPs output very little noise. One, however, outputs less. If you want truly silent backgrounds, Mezzo HiFi.

I'm curious what is causing the hiss.  If the mods don't cause hiss, than it's obviously from the bypassed components.  I believe Mezzo only bypasses the buffer as I've heard there is not amp inside the AK100, but an attenuator only, correct me if I'm wrong.  

post #1373 of 2099
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

I'm curious what is causing the hiss.  If the mods don't cause hiss, than it's obviously from the bypassed components.  I believe Mezzo only bypasses the buffer as I've heard there is not amp inside the AK100, but an attenuator only, correct me if I'm wrong.  

You may be right, but then, I'm just a listener to the AK100. From what I understand, the AK100 has an active attenuator. Mezzo activate it in software mode. Noise is lowest I've heard out of MD, which is great.

post #1374 of 2099
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post
 

The tester himself pointed out the problems with the test. He's like that. The noise portion of the comment had nothing to do with the hardware test. It had to do with earphones plugged into both units and music played back. In every instance, the AK240 outputs more discernible hiss than the DX90. I also qualify elsewhere that I prefer the sound of the AK240. It is softer, more silky, which is something I'm beginning to dig. 

 

I've now heard three separate AK240's and each one has more noise than my DX90. It's just what it is. Both DAPs output very little noise. One, however, outputs less. If you want truly silent backgrounds, Mezzo HiFi.

 

I don't have a problem with the test as posted.   I think it is important to look at objective data as opposed to just subjective feedback.  The issue is that people keep citing this test without noting its limitations.   As you pointed out, the AK240 still has a LOW noise floor.   People keep citing this test as proof that the AK240 has a HIGH noise floor.   You stated that you believe this to be false.   This is consistent with my experience and many other owners of the AK240.

 

This discussion started because we were trying to determine whether a reported noise problem was due to intrinsically high noise in the AK, poor headphone match, defect, or sensitive hearing.  I think there were a couple of people that were insisting on the first cause based on the test in question.

 

In any case, this is all rather moot at this point because the guy who originally posted about the noise problem specifically states that he would not describe the problem as a "hiss."   Not really sure what he is hearing then.  It could be the hiss or general higher noise level heightened by sensitive hearing and/or poor headphone match, or maybe he is just picking up more harmonics or overtones that are sometimes more accessible with high res files.  Need more specifics.


Edited by daseinpdx - 7/18/14 at 8:12am
post #1375 of 2099
I never ever said it was noisy. I merely expressed that I didn't think it was absolutely silent and that if it was, in my opinion it would be improved.
post #1376 of 2099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauntere View Post

I never ever said it was noisy. I merely expressed that I didn't think it was absolutely silent and that if it was, in my opinion it would be improved.

 

Nothing is absolutely silent - including the AK240.   However, the claim of "high noise floor" was made by another user who jumped in.

 

Still, if It isn't "hiss" and it isn't "noise," perhaps you can describe what it is you are hearing?   This will help us make sure that you don't actually have a defective unit.

post #1377 of 2099
I didn't claim that the ak240 had a high noise floor either. I just wrote down that the older players have had a history of high noise (high enough for me not to like them before even playing any music ) . The 240 would thus most likely not be silent either. It just so happened that everyone got defensive.
post #1378 of 2099
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post
 

I've been considered the 'hiss king' since 2007. My hearing has no doubt gotten worse since then, but my sensitivity to noise is the same as ever it was. My hiss benchmarking earphones, the CT7, are as bad as I am. They are far more sensitive than the TG334. I also have qualified by suggesting that the CT7 is very sensitive and that most people will probably get in just fine with the level of noise of the AK240.

 

 

I've now heard three separate AK240's and each one has more noise than my DX90. It's just what it is. Both DAPs output very little noise. One, however, outputs less. If you want truly silent backgrounds, Mezzo HiFi.

 

Is it just the CT7 that you can hear hiss with or are there others?  What about the TG334, have you tried it with that one too?  If they are far more sensitive to noise and hiss over FitEar's... Note to self, stay away from the CT7.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by angelo898 View Post

I didn't claim that the ak240 had a high noise floor either. I just wrote down that the older players have had a history of high noise (high enough for me not to like them before even playing any music ) . The 240 would thus most likely not be silent either. It just so happened that everyone got defensive.

 

LOL, you said it should have, based on your experience, but that's all good- this is a good discussion to have.  We should state what iems, as I assume no headphones, they hear the noise/hiss with, it's good information for potential buyers.  We should be able to intelligently discuss both the good and the bad. Even though the Parterre specs might not show it to be the most sensitive iem, in my experience FitEar universals pick up hiss and noise much easier than 'normal' super sensitive iems.  I've found the F111 and TG334 to be more sensitive to hiss and noise than the UERM, JH13 and a host of others I've owned and auditioned.

 

I read your back posts that you heard hiss with the original AK100?  I wonder if my RWA modded AK100 had less than stock?  It was like a black void to me. It was utterly silent with the TG334.


Edited by shotgunshane - 7/18/14 at 5:21pm
post #1379 of 2099

Looks like hiss is in the highest region of the audible frequency range.  By a certain age, sensitivity to those frequencies will be lost.  Basically if you are old enough, you hearing is rolled off.  This could explain the reason why most enjoy BA iems with rolled off high end. Same for some audio sources.


Edited by SilverEars - 7/18/14 at 5:38pm
post #1380 of 2099
The thing about the rwak is it specifically reduced the ohm value so that it would be much more quiet with iems.
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