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HD800 - Pink Floyd Time - Very Shrill Bells

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 

I just tried the HD800 and I love them! They sound great, very true, very detailed, great sound stage.

 

I was comparing them to the HD700 and in almost every case, I prefer the HD800. I was listening to DSOTM and when the bells started ringing on Time, some of those bells were really shrill! I've never heard that before. On the HD700, they're a little mellower. So my question is, are they supposed to be so shrill? Maybe I just couldn't hear it before because I never had such detailed headphones. Does anyone know what frequency they are? And maybe another song where I can hear the same frequency to see if there's a frequency spike with HD800 or if it's just the bells?

 

post #2 of 28
I use a pair of RS1s for PF and I know exactly what you mean. I've always found the Animals album, specifically Dogs, had some shrill but oh so sweet guitar. Ditto for some parts of Shine On You Crazy Diamond. You could check out the squawking in the middle of Echoes as well. With that said I probably shouldn't be doing the Valsalva maneuver right before listening sessions either...
post #3 of 28

It's the recording. It's the downside of having neutral reference heaphones.

I remember my old HD600 sounding even more shrill than the HD800 in that song.

post #4 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phredd View Post
 

I just tried the HD800 and I love them! They sound great, very true, very detailed, great sound stage.

 

I was comparing them to the HD700 and in almost every case, I prefer the HD800. I was listening to DSOTM and when the bells started ringing on Time, some of those bells were really shrill! I've never heard that before. On the HD700, they're a little mellower. So my question is, are they supposed to be so shrill? Maybe I just couldn't hear it before because I never had such detailed headphones. Does anyone know what frequency they are? And maybe another song where I can hear the same frequency to see if there's a frequency spike with HD800 or if it's just the bells?

 

 

Which recording?

 

One of the vinyl versions, one of the CD versions,

or perhaps a file?  If so - lossless, lossy...?

post #5 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post

I use a pair of RS1s for PF and I know exactly what you mean. I've always found the Animals album, specifically Dogs, had some shrill but oh so sweet guitar. Ditto for some parts of Shine On You Crazy Diamond. You could check out the squawking in the middle of Echoes as well. With that said I probably shouldn't be doing the Valsalva maneuver right before listening sessions either...

 

I tried the RS1s and I felt they were harsh in general, so I can imagine how the bells must sound. I listened to all of Wish You Were Here and didn't notice any shrillness. I'll listen to it again and try Echoes, too.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizura View Post
 

It's the recording. It's the downside of having neutral reference heaphones.

I remember my old HD600 sounding even more shrill than the HD800 in that song.

 

It's good to know it's not the HD800. I don't remember the HD600 being harsh, though I had them years ago. If it's the recording, I can live with that.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zazex View Post
 

 

Which recording?

 

One of the vinyl versions, one of the CD versions,

or perhaps a file?  If so - lossless, lossy...?

 

Oh, good question. I forgot how many recordings there are when I posted. It's from the Discovery CD set, Apple lossless. I may still have Oh By The Way, so maybe I'll try that to see if it was the remastering.


Edited by Phredd - 2/6/14 at 7:41am
post #6 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phredd View Post
 

 

 

 

Oh, good question. I forgot how many recordings there are when I posted. It's from the Discovery CD set, Apple lossless. I may still have Oh By The Way, so maybe I'll try that to see if it was the remastering.

 

I haven't listened to DSOTM in quite a while - just burned out on it from hearing it too many times.

 

From memory, though, I don't think that "harshness" was a part of that recording

which, of course, was a masterful job by the Floyd, Alan Parsons, and the whole crew

involved with it at Abbey Road way back then in 1972/73.

 

And besides from memory, the sound quality of that recording

(apart from the more subjective nature of the music itself)

has been lauded so often by so many in such a broad variety of places,

I hesitate to think that "harshness" was any part of it.

 

I'll be very interested to see your post after you compare the version

you have with any others.

post #7 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zazex View Post
 

 

I haven't listened to DSOTM in quite a while - just burned out on it from hearing it too many times.

 

From memory, though, I don't think that "harshness" was a part of that recording

which, of course, was a masterful job by the Floyd, Alan Parsons, and the whole crew

involved with it at Abbey Road way back then in 1972/73.

 

And besides from memory, the sound quality of that recording

(apart from the more subjective nature of the music itself)

has been lauded so often by so many in such a broad variety of places,

I hesitate to think that "harshness" was any part of it.

 

I'll be very interested to see your post after you compare the version

you have with any others.

 

It took me a while to import the 2007 recordings. I had to find them first. I'm glad I did. I love the mini-reproductions of the original albums. Very nostalgic.

 

Well, the shrillness was just on the bells, and only the ones from the right. I think they're the third or fourth bells you hear. The bells sound the same between 2007 and 2011. I agree that the album is fantastic. I can't count how many times I've listened and I'm still not burnt out. I'll be listening a few more times now with these amazing HD800's. I just think the bells are supposed to be shrill. Nothing else sounds harsh.

post #8 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post

I use a pair of RS1s for PF and I know exactly what you mean. I've always found the Animals album, specifically Dogs, had some shrill but oh so sweet guitar. Ditto for some parts of Shine On You Crazy Diamond. You could check out the squawking in the middle of Echoes as well. With that said I probably shouldn't be doing the Valsalva maneuver right before listening sessions either...

 

Oh by the way... I listened to Echoes and it was fantastic. I've listened to Echoes literally hundreds of times, but I've never heard it like this before. The "squawking" is sharp, but not what I would call harsh. Maybe you popped your eardrums with the valsalva maneuver or you should try the HD800. :)

post #9 of 28
I'm a huge Floyd fan and have been collecting the best mastered copies when I can. So I was very keen to try the discovery box set, hoping it would be a definitive issue. So in order to dip my toe in the water without the full outlay, I had tthe opportunity to losslessly rip Animals. I have great versions of my other favourites so this thisis e one I checked out first. I was hugely disappointed. It has been significantly compressed like almost all contemporary releases. This happens at the pressing plant (a colleague of mine has witnessed this). I have no current evidence the others are the same, but given the industry's attitude it seems likely.

When I get home I will check out the bells on my HD-800s on the various mastering of DSOTM and see how they stack up. But generally you can rely on the Mobile Fidelity mastering: google MFSL and see if you can get one of these limited editions. DSOTM, The Wall and Meddle are superb. Wish You Were Here is fantasic on the Master Sound version.
post #10 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagwap View Post

I'm a huge Floyd fan and have been collecting the best mastered copies when I can. So I was very keen to try the discovery box set, hoping it would be a definitive issue. So in order to dip my toe in the water without the full outlay, I had tthe opportunity to losslessly rip Animals. I have great versions of my other favourites so this thisis e one I checked out first. I was hugely disappointed. It has been significantly compressed like almost all contemporary releases. This happens at the pressing plant (a colleague of mine has witnessed this). I have no current evidence the others are the same, but given the industry's attitude it seems likely.

When I get home I will check out the bells on my HD-800s on the various mastering of DSOTM and see how they stack up. But generally you can rely on the Mobile Fidelity mastering: google MFSL and see if you can get one of these limited editions. DSOTM, The Wall and Meddle are superb. Wish You Were Here is fantasic on the Master Sound version.

 

I'm a huge fan, too. I was lucky enough to see the DSOTM concert. As I was reimporting Ummagumma, I remembered the big NYT ad for that concert tour with the headline, "Pink Floyd on the Road." I converted it to halftone to look more like the newspaper ad.

 

 

So, do you think the 2007 Oh By The Way recordings are better than 2011 Discovery? Or am I wasting my time importing them. I thought they had really good people working hard to remaster the recordings for Discovery. Was it after they finished that the next process degraded them?

 

Thanks for the head up on the different masters. Are these Mobile Fidelity masters from the remastering for 2007 or 2011? Or are they from the original tapes? I'll look for them. I just wonder what the trade-offs are between the uncompressed Mobile Fidelity and the recent remasters. I also wonder if the individual Immersion sets had better quality (uncompressed) masters, though I don't intend to pay $150 for each album -- that doesn't mean I'm not a huge fan! :)

 

UPDATE: I could only find a couple of Mobile Fidelity masters, both vinyl. Were these old releases that may not be available any more?


Edited by Phredd - 2/9/14 at 4:47pm
post #11 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phredd View Post
 

 

I'm a huge fan, too. I was lucky enough to see the DSOTM concert. As I was reimporting Ummagumma, I remembered the big NYT ad for that concert tour with the headline, "Pink Floyd on the Road." I converted it to halftone to look more like the newspaper ad.

 

 

So, do you think the 2007 Oh By The Way recordings are better than 2011 Discovery? Or am I wasting my time importing them. I thought they had really good people working hard to remaster the recordings for Discovery. Was it after they finished that the next process degraded them?

 

Thanks for the head up on the different masters. Are these Mobile Fidelity masters from the remastering for 2007 or 2011? Or are they from the original tapes? I'll look for them. I just wonder what the trade-offs are between the uncompressed Mobile Fidelity and the recent remasters. I also wonder if the individual Immersion sets had better quality (uncompressed) masters, though I don't intend to pay $150 for each album -- that doesn't mean I'm not a huge fan! :)

 

UPDATE: I could only find a couple of Mobile Fidelity masters, both vinyl. Were these old releases that may not be available any more?

 

I have only seen the "Momentary Lapse in Talent" and "Derision Bell" tours, and Roger Waters twice (one at the Berlin Wall).  But this is due to age rather than lack of interest, so I am naturally jealous.

 

MFSL CDs, SACD and Vinyl are always from the original master tapes as I understand.  They just take great care.  Check out the Thick As a Brick from Tull if you can.  They are always limited release time, so they get valuable over time.  I generally graze the hi-fi show stalls and second hand stores.  EAC software tells you if you get a 100% rip.

 

The vinyl is excellent, but I am talking about the CDs which they call UDCD or UDCD II (marketing for gold plated and very carefully mastered.  I don't think the gold is critical).

 

I was talking about the Discovery release of Animals.  I haven't come across the "By the Way..." version yet.

 

Amazon has the MFSL DSOTM available: 

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dark-Side-Moon-Pink-Floyd/dp/B000000IRB/ref=sr_1_8?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392001005&sr=1-8&keywords=udcd

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B000000IRB/ref=sr_1_8_olp?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392001005&sr=1-8&keywords=udcd&condition=used

 

I think used is a better option with the 186 GPB discount! (I said they get valuable)

post #12 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagwap View Post
 

 

I have only seen the "Momentary Lapse in Talent" and "Derision Bell" tours, and Roger Waters twice (one at the Berlin Wall).  But this is due to age rather than lack of interest, so I am naturally jealous.

 

MFSL CDs, SACD and Vinyl are always from the original master tapes as I understand.  They just take great care.  Check out the Thick As a Brick from Tull if you can.  They are always limited release time, so they get valuable over time.  I generally graze the hi-fi show stalls and second hand stores.  EAC software tells you if you get a 100% rip.

 

The vinyl is excellent, but I am talking about the CDs which they call UDCD or UDCD II (marketing for gold plated and very carefully mastered.  I don't think the gold is critical).

 

I was talking about the Discovery release of Animals.  I haven't come across the "By the Way..." version yet.

 

Amazon has the MFSL DSOTM available: 

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dark-Side-Moon-Pink-Floyd/dp/B000000IRB/ref=sr_1_8?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392001005&sr=1-8&keywords=udcd

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B000000IRB/ref=sr_1_8_olp?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392001005&sr=1-8&keywords=udcd&condition=used

 

I think used is a better option with the 186 GPB discount! (I said they get valuable)

 

They weren't THAT BAD. :) Definitely lacking without Waters. Must have been cool at THE wall. I have the original vinyls, but no way to listen to them. All the original Beatles vinyls too. Thanks for the links. I have to look, but I think I may have that version of DSOTM somewhere. It looks something I remember buying years ago.

post #13 of 28

I had a quick listen to "The Bells" this morning, on the HD-800s, admittedly only on an Audioquest Dragonfly.  My original late '80s CD was the closest to brash sounding, but not quite shrill despite the Dragonfly.  The MFSL was more mellow but better, and I know it to be the most musical which is what matters.  The clearest was the 2 channel 88.2kHz/24b output from the SACD, mastered my Alan Parsons himself.  Not shrill but very clear, clean and with great transients, especially impressive given the age of the original material.

 

Some of the other SACD 2 channel flac outputs appearing on the internet can be very good.  Some of them are downmixes of the 5.1 weird mixes the producers experimented with, so can sound a bit phasey. Also some can be a little light in balance due to the filters used to recompile the DSD stream to PCM.  But they haven't been through the pressing plant compressors and are high resolution 24bit.  

 

Also Bluray Audio is official, and DSOTM and Wish You Were Here have been released, which include the original animations and film backdrop used in the gigs.  They are delicious.

post #14 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagwap View Post
 

I had a quick listen to "The Bells" this morning, on the HD-800s, admittedly only on an Audioquest Dragonfly.  My original late '80s CD was the closest to brash sounding, but not quite shrill despite the Dragonfly.  The MFSL was more mellow but better, and I know it to be the most musical which is what matters.  The clearest was the 2 channel 88.2kHz/24b output from the SACD, mastered my Alan Parsons himself.  Not shrill but very clear, clean and with great transients, especially impressive given the age of the original material.

 

Some of the other SACD 2 channel flac outputs appearing on the internet can be very good.  Some of them are downmixes of the 5.1 weird mixes the producers experimented with, so can sound a bit phasey. Also some can be a little light in balance due to the filters used to recompile the DSD stream to PCM.  But they haven't been through the pressing plant compressors and are high resolution 24bit.  

 

Also Bluray Audio is official, and DSOTM and Wish You Were Here have been released, which include the original animations and film backdrop used in the gigs.  They are delicious.

 

If I come across the other masters at a reasonable price, I might give them a try. Right now, I'm thoroughly enjoying the Discovery CDs. The blu-ray sounds cool. Can you share a link?

post #15 of 28

Never been a fan of Pink Floyd's music , so I couldn't tell you anything about the bells. 

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