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What is better: Dolby surround simulation or authentic, quality stereo? - Page 4

post #46 of 50
Off course DPL and DH are two different things, and this is why they can work together very well.

You use DPL decoder to get 4 channels out of two and then you use DH to convert these 4 channels back to two. You do that because the two you get as the result give you 3D image. Instead of DPL you can use any other DSP (e.g. matrix, echo, reverb) that will convert stereo into four channels, and once you have four channels you can put them through DH so you can hear 3D in your headphones. It's actually not going to be 3D, because it's going to be left-right-front-back only and no up-down. Do you know if DH supports up-down as well?
post #47 of 50
DH does not support height channels.

Also, dancing back and forth between stereo and 5 channels is not recommended. That's like trying to get higher bitrate audio from an already compressed 128-kbps MP3... In the case of DPL IIz and DH, what you will get is perhaps a sense that everything is somewhat in front of you, and sounding like you are inside a cave. Some people like that, because it's less in-your-face, but some people like me (and cel) prefer not messing with stereo source audio.

If you use DH with a 5.1 Dolby Digital Live (5.1 DDL) signal or a multi-channel LPCM signal, THEN DH will make a special for-headphones-stereo mix that will (or ought to) sound like you are hearing sound come from a left-front speaker, a right-rear speaker, or center speaker direction relative to your position. It sounds quite different from DPL llz + DH, and IMO is at least worth hearing and I like it a lot for games & movies.
post #48 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

DH does not support height channels.

Also, dancing back and forth between stereo and 5 channels is not recommended. That's like trying to get higher bitrate audio from an already compressed 128-kbps MP3... In the case of DPL IIz and DH, what you will get is perhaps a sense that everything is somewhat in front of you, and sounding like you are inside a cave. Some people like that, because it's less in-your-face, but some people like me (and cel) prefer not messing with stereo source audio.

Some people like to hear sound in front and to hear the space around instead of hearing all the sound inside of the head. DH is the best solution I've ever heard so far. Whether you will put the sound in the cave or if you put it into super realistic theater depends on what processing you will do to obtain 4 channels from stereo.

You know, there is a huge difference between how you hear same music on headphones and speakers. I neither prefer pure speakers nor pure headphones. In both cases sound is not the way it should be. Unless the recording is binaural you will never get proper image nor from speakers nor from headphones.

With speakers situation is simple, people assume that when 33% comes from left and 66% comes from right then sound is coming from in-between center and left. The truth is it is not. The actual sound is coming from two places, where one is on the right side. If that sound was really coming from that point in-between center and left you would hear it completely differently, because of binaural effect, because your face would occlude it differently, your nose would occlude sound coming to right ear, which won't happen if that sound is partly coming from right speaker.

With headphones situation is much much simpler, but still not perfectly simple. Simplest and almost 100% compatible with human hearing situation is only when you use IEMs. When you use over-ear headphones sound will bounce off every element of your ear, and your brain goes crazy figuring out where the sound is coming from. Ultrasone tried to address that problem with their 3D technology, but IMHO only the IEMs can deliver correct imaging, and only if recording is binaural. Otherwise whether you apply DSP or not what you hear is never going to be perfect, or even HQ.
Edited by koolas - 2/27/14 at 12:05pm
post #49 of 50
^this
Yes, exactly, this is good info for rfe777. I may not be a fan of DPL IIz guessing at positioning from a typical music recording, but still I pointed out why some other people might like it. And of course binaural recordings are an exception, more natural because our two ears are being fed two mic signals, but sadly this is just not how the majority of audio is recorded or could be engineered.

I would say stereo is 1D, because it just pans volume % between left and right (sometimes distance can be heard, because a mic is further or an engineer processed it to sound that way, but it still doesn't come from a distinct position), then Home Theater and it's emulations (like DH) are 2D because they make a "ring" around you. 3D is possible, binaural recordings are an example of that but more on that in a moment.

Dolby Headphone, when fed proper positioning data, is a step in a more realistic direction, but it is still limited to 5/7 positions and panning a % between them. It is a generic profile to calculate what your two ears hear as sound reflects around to them, BUT it's still calculating what your ears would hear in a speaker environment, not a "live" environment. Also, the algorithm is meant to simulate a living room or theater, so while it does a bit of "how would your face occlude the sound?" It also applies an EQ to the sound and you'll hear a bit of reverb from "walls", thus the occasional "in a cave" impression. So, it is indeed better, with room for improvement.

The gaming environment (and live binaural recordings) allows audio engineers to strip away the "speaker placement" layer of abstraction, and figure out what your ear would hear if a sound came from there. Some attempts at this have been made, like OpenAL, DirectSound3D, Rapture3D, and most recently AstoundSurround (by GenAudio, currently exclusive to AMD's TrueAudio DSP chip), where distance and direction is used with Head Transfer Related Functions (and no wall or Home Theater speaker emulation) to really give the listener the experience of the in-game environment. The problem that plagued all of these, however, is the game has to be coded to support them. Dolby Digital (and DTS) mastering is very widespread and common, so DH doesn't have support problems, but I am holding out for hope that AMD's TrueAudio and AstoundSound, the latest 3D HTRF, will catch on, since Gamespot and Anandtech articles mentioned that the PS4's dedicated DSP chip is or is based on TrueAudio. Hopefully, with widespread availability in a popular console, audio technology will continue progressing forward.
Edited by Evshrug - 3/1/14 at 12:15pm
post #50 of 50
I just found two VST plug-ins:

http://dallashodgson.info/articles/OpenAmbienceProject/

http://wavearts.com/products/plugins/panorama/

First one is free, other is for few bucks, but effect is really good.

Both work very well with Fidelify (http://www.fidelify.net/).
Edited by koolas - 3/11/14 at 5:30pm
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