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Best Studio Headphones - Page 28

post #406 of 536
Thread Starter 

I don't see what you mean. :tongue:

 

post #407 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post

I don't see what you mean. tongue.gif



What episode of Community is that? Is that the episode where Dean Pelton realizes he has a fetish for really dorky looking headphones? Haha I kid I kid
Edited by LNuneek - 4/13/15 at 1:23pm
post #408 of 536
Thread Starter 

PPGarcia a testé le NAD VISIO HP50 pour Qobuz

 

Of course, I'm sure you speak perfect French.

post #409 of 536
The NADS are to smooth overall. Tooo soft in the treble. Also the "Room Feel" is irritating if you mix in mono. What I would recommend with headphones. Got the FSP and NADS here for comparsion. While it seems that the NADS seems to sound more natural/common for in-room monitoring in the beginning they don't show flaws in the mix that easy as the FSPs. Still my T50 mod is superior to both of them in transient response and detail. The NADs are great for fun listening and just relaxing. The FSP on the other side are tiring after a while. A tad to much sizzle and main mids. I don't comment the comfort of both... And the 7520 recommendation is a joke I believe. Way to boomy mid bass and huge dip at 4,5k which makes vocals disappear. I love subbass though but not if this compromises the rest of the spectrum. Made flat and inear measurements of the 7520. The one floating around here aren't really represetive for the 7520 as the scale is 20db. Sure it looks amazing flat biggrin.gif If anyone is interested I post them.
post #410 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarsonis View Post
And the 7520 recommendation is a joke I believe. Way to boomy mid bass and huge dip at 4,5k which makes vocals disappear. I love subbass though but not if this compromises the rest of the spectrum. Made flat and inear measurements of the 7520. The one floating around here aren't really represetive for the 7520 as the scale is 20db. Sure it looks amazing flat biggrin.gif If anyone is interested I post them.

 

Tarsonis, I have the 7520's and they're not perfect, but I have to ask if you've heard them? Despite the measurements, the vocals most certainly do not disappear.

 

I'm interested in the last part of your post, but I'm afraid that I don't understand what you've written. Could you possibly carify please?

post #411 of 536
Of course I had them here for about a month. Bought them from a member here. How should have done measurements then?
I'm not saying they are crap. But we're talking about Studio HPs here where a neutral and uncolored representation is wanted. Of course one could argument this wouldn't be so important for monitoring purposes. I assume we talk about Hps that are also helpful in mastering/mixing. Then I can't recommend the 7520. To narrow, to much boomy mid bass, horrible dip around 4,5Khz and (maybe that was my specific 7520) noticable big difference in L/R driver match. My post was mainly related to the NADs. the 7520 is only a sidenote asI bought them because of the good comments on here.
post #412 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarsonis View Post

Of course I had them here for about a month. Bought them from a member here. How should have done measurements then?
I'm not saying they are crap. But we're talking about Studio HPs here where a neutral and uncolored representation is wanted. Of course one could argument this wouldn't be so important for monitoring purposes. I assume we talk about Hps that are also helpful in mastering/mixing. Then I can't recommend the 7520. To narrow, to much boomy mid bass, horrible dip around 4,5Khz and (maybe that was my specific 7520) noticable big difference in L/R driver match. My post was mainly related to the NADs. the 7520 is only a sidenote asI bought them because of the good comments on here.


Thanks for the clarification. Your opinion about the 7520's is as valid as anyone else's, but there are many experienced professionals who don't agree. I'm guessing that you haven't seen this thread:- https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/638191-new-favorite-headphones-mixing.html?highlight=sony+mdr+7520 or the others like it on Gearslutz, the pro gear forum.

 

Also have a look at my post #1985 here:- http://www.head-fi.org/t/682534/sony-mdr-7520/1980#post_11500766

post #413 of 536
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarsonis View Post

I love subbass though but not if this compromises the rest of the spectrum. Made flat and inear measurements of the 7520. The one floating around here aren't really represetive for the 7520 as the scale is 20db. Sure it looks amazing flat biggrin.gif If anyone is interested I post them.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike F View Post
 

I'm interested in the last part of your post, but I'm afraid that I don't understand what you've written. Could you possibly carify please?

 

I was going to ask the same question. The wording wasn't very clear, though I think I can decipher: "I made raw measurements of the 7520. The measurements floating around aren't really representative at the 20db scale. Raw measurements of the 7520 sure look amazing. :biggrin: If anyone is interested in my measurements, I'll post them."

 

So yes, please post them, Tarsonis, with an explanation of your measurement method. :smile:

post #414 of 536
Thanks sinocelt! That's also what I wanted. smily_headphones1.gif
post #415 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarsonis View Post

The NADS are to smooth overall. Tooo soft in the treble. Also the "Room Feel" is irritating if you mix in mono. What I would recommend with headphones. Got the FSP and NADS here for comparsion. While it seems that the NADS seems to sound more natural/common for in-room monitoring in the beginning they don't show flaws in the mix that easy as the FSPs. Still my T50 mod is superior to both of them in transient response and detail. The NADs are great for fun listening and just relaxing. The FSP on the other side are tiring after a while. A tad to much sizzle and main mids. I don't comment the comfort of both... And the 7520 recommendation is a joke I believe. Way to boomy mid bass and huge dip at 4,5k which makes vocals disappear. I love subbass though but not if this compromises the rest of the spectrum. Made flat and inear measurements of the 7520. The one floating around here aren't really represetive for the 7520 as the scale is 20db. Sure it looks amazing flat biggrin.gif If anyone is interested I post them.

The NAD being a Bartonphone just like the PSB I think I might cross the PSB off my list. I want something more revealing of problem areas, but still maintaining a natural sound. Leaning heavier towards German Maestro 8.35 now.
post #416 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike F View Post


Thanks for the clarification. Your opinion about the 7520's is as valid as anyone else's, but there are many experienced professionals who don't agree. I'm guessing that you haven't seen this thread:- https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/638191-new-favorite-headphones-mixing.html?highlight=sony+mdr+7520 or the others like it on Gearslutz, the pro gear forum.

Also have a look at my post #1985 here:- http://www.head-fi.org/t/682534/sony-mdr-7520/1980#post_11500766

My comments may sound like a quick bash and pure fact. Its not my intend. I made intense testing with the 7520. As now with my NAD and FSP. Beside of referencing with monitors (full treated room with a pair Genelecs8040/Adam A8 running with Audessy Room correction). Also a sidechecking with my headphone measurment rig which I used for my T50 mod.
Since I owned a pair of Paradox back 2013 I began to look into headphones different. Wouldn't say that the paras are the ultimative goal but they are close.

So sure I read those threads at gearlutz. And I often must shake my head. Over the net there are a lot of reviews and comments like for example the dt990 or k701 are pure neutral and the flattest headphones ever.. also at gearlutz. I don't look out for headphones recommendation at gearlutz anymore since years. I think the tenor is not technical interested in headphones and a lot of people are outdated in the way of thinking about the topic headphones in general. A lot of the old skool sound engineers and producers there. Which is fine for all sounddesign and mix purposes. But I can't rely on comments by guys that use the ns10 as a reference. The ns is the holy grail... It sounds like crap, they are use to it and it does work because they know the flaws. But then they frown upon mixing with headphones. I got my first record deal with tracks I mixed/mastered sole on headphones. Just used monitors for the stereo placement. So I know now it works even gearlutz says it doesn't.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm of course interested in new hp gear but take those reviews and comments always with a grain of salt. Especially on gearlutz.
Often its not clear if the comments are made in regards of listening level and listening chain. Amp output R for example etc. The balance of any speaker changes drastic with listening level. Regarding research I always tend to get some impressions here or on innerfidelity though I know here are a lot of hype and bias comments too.

This is just my opinion. But I think its important to mention if I wouldn't have found some comments on the FSP that are against all hype claiming there is no bass but a lot terrible highs I wouldn't have tested my FSPs with a second new pair. Which was my somewhat my experience. Weird transients. Sounded like an early reflection with phase problems. It wasn't distortion. Anyway it turned out that mine was faulty. To name a number. About 5db less in the bass region. The transient response was less jagged on the second pair. No double transients and subbass like it should be. I will post a review with charts/CSD in the FSP thread soon. Seems Focal have some quality issues..
Anyway I wouldn't never bought a second pair to try out if there wasn't head-fi or innerfidelity. On gearlutz it was like: Totally crap and oh nice I take them for my bedroom. In short term I don't care what gearlutz has to say about headphones biggrin.gif
post #417 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarsonis View Post


My comments may sound like a quick bash and pure fact. Its not my intend. I made intense testing with the 7520. As now with my NAD and FSP. Beside of referencing with monitors (full treated room with a pair Genelecs8040/Adam A8 running with Audessy Room correction). Also a sidechecking with my headphone measurment rig which I used for my T50 mod.
Since I owned a pair of Paradox back 2013 I began to look into headphones different. Wouldn't say that the paras are the ultimative goal but they are close.

So sure I read those threads at gearlutz. And I often must shake my head. Over the net there are a lot of reviews and comments like for example the dt990 or k701 are pure neutral and the flattest headphones ever.. also at gearlutz. I don't look out for headphones recommendation at gearlutz anymore since years. I think the tenor is not technical interested in headphones and a lot of people are outdated in the way of thinking about the topic headphones in general. A lot of the old skool sound engineers and producers there. Which is fine for all sounddesign and mix purposes. But I can't rely on comments by guys that use the ns10 as a reference. The ns is the holy grail... It sounds like crap, they are use to it and it does work because they know the flaws. But then they frown upon mixing with headphones. I got my first record deal with tracks I mixed/mastered sole on headphones. Just used monitors for the stereo placement. So I know now it works even gearlutz says it doesn't.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm of course interested in new hp gear but take those reviews and comments always with a grain of salt. Especially on gearlutz.
Often its not clear if the comments are made in regards of listening level and listening chain. Amp output R for example etc. The balance of any speaker changes drastic with listening level. Regarding research I always tend to get some impressions here or on innerfidelity though I know here are a lot of hype and bias comments too.

This is just my opinion. But I think its important to mention if I wouldn't have found some comments on the FSP that are against all hype claiming there is no bass but a lot terrible highs I wouldn't have tested my FSPs with a second new pair. Which was my somewhat my experience. Weird transients. Sounded like an early reflection with phase problems. It wasn't distortion. Anyway it turned out that mine was faulty. To name a number. About 5db less in the bass region. The transient response was less jagged on the second pair. No double transients and subbass like it should be. I will post a review with charts/CSD in the FSP thread soon. Seems Focal have some quality issues..
Anyway I wouldn't never bought a second pair to try out if there wasn't head-fi or innerfidelity. On gearlutz it was like: Totally crap and oh nice I take them for my bedroom. In short term I don't care what gearlutz has to say about headphones biggrin.gif


Thanks for the more detailed response. I have to say that it only furthers my impression that opinions about any given headphone are (obviously) subjective and a matter of personal preference, and that tests produce different results depending on who does them and also, as in the case of the FSP's, on product variation.

 

The only reason I take notice of opinions on Gearslutz is that they are generally made by people who use headphones to produce music, rather than people who use them for music listening. Most people prefer Hi-Fi speakers for listening to music on rather than monitors because Hi-Fi speakers are designed to make music pleasant to listen to rather than to be revealing.  There's also some debate about whether a headphone should in fact measure 'flat' to sound correct. I personally think that open and closed headphones should probably measure differently to sound the same due to how the different types react acoustically with the ear, especially with regard to the bass region.

post #418 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post
 

 

I was going to ask the same question. The wording wasn't very clear, though I think I can decipher: "I made raw measurements of the 7520. The measurements floating around aren't really representative at the 20db scale. Raw measurements of the 7520 sure look amazing. :biggrin: If anyone is interested in my measurements, I'll post them."

 

So yes, please post them, Tarsonis, with an explanation of your measurement method. :smile:

 
 
 

 

 

OK here they are. Measurments where taken with a calibrated amp/mic combo. Chain is a RME Fireface UCX with an Lake People G100 amp which I measured has an output impendance of 0.1Ohm.
Take those measurments with a grain of salt and don't compare them with others. I don't use any HRTF compensation curve with the INEar measure rig and also the mic is missing a calibration. So there is a downfall  in the lows because of the missing calibration or  that is a seal problem. Dunno. It definitly not representing the subbass correct.


Thats why I got a second rig with a planar surface which represents the mid to treble range far better without pinna/earcanal resonances. Thanks to solderdude who gave me some hints. The surface itself is equipped with a human skin replicating material to tame reflections from the surface.
The INEAR rig is rebuild of BMF and Solderdudes tutorial. Its a bit imprecise because of the missing calibration and well my pina shape. 
As you see I aiming towards the Harman Target curve with a tilt downwards with my mods. Correlates well with the in room response. There are interesting topics floating around about the target curve.

 

 

Sony 7520 blue/red

Genelec 8040 in background

 

 

FSP new pair red/blue

FSP faulty pair green

 

 

NAD vs FSP...

 

 

INEar measurments - not reliable below 50Hz and above 8KHz

 


Edited by tarsonis - 4/15/15 at 12:20pm
post #419 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarsonis View Post
 
 

Sony 7520 blue/red

Genelec 8040 in background

 

 

FSP new pair red/blue

FSP faulty pair green

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the measurements, tarsonis.

 

I have to say that your measurement of the 7520 looks much better than Tyll's at the bottom end - much flatter and more extended with a relatively mild hump. Yes, there's a dip after that and they're clearly not as flat as the FSP's, but still not bad. The dip in the upper frequencies occurs at around the pitch at which the human ear is the most sensitive, so we hear those frequencies much louder anyway. Frankly I'm more worried by the much more pronounced V shaped dip at around 8kHz on the FSP's. I would have thought that that would have a worse effect, sonically.

 

The driver mis-match on the 7520's is almost certainly just product variation - perhaps they were as 'faulty' as your first pair of FSP's? In any event I'm sure that product variation is present in any manufacturers headphones - heck, even every HD800 measures slightly differently, and Sennheiser provide a graph to show it! I think that headphone measurements should probably show the average measurements from half a dozen similar pairs, but I realise that in most cases that's a practical impossibility.

post #420 of 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike F View Post
 

 

 

Thanks for the measurements, tarsonis.

 

I have to say that your measurement of the 7520 looks much better than Tyll's at the bottom end - much flatter and more extended with a relatively mild hump. Yes, there's a dip after that and they're clearly not as flat as the FSP's, but still not bad. The dip in the upper frequencies occurs at around the pitch at which the human ear is the most sensitive, so we hear those frequencies much louder anyway. Frankly I'm more worried by the much more pronounced V shaped dip at around 8kHz on the FSP's. I would have thought that that would have a worse effect, sonically.

 

The driver mis-match on the 7520's is almost certainly just product variation - perhaps they were as 'faulty' as your first pair of FSP's? In any event I'm sure that product variation is present in any manufacturers headphones - heck, even every HD800 measures slightly differently, and Sennheiser provide a graph to show it! I think that headphone measurements should probably show the average measurements from half a dozen similar pairs, but I realise that in most cases that's a practical impossibility.

 

Yeah the dip in the presence area on the FSP looks drastic But it looks more drastic then it really sounds. Actually to my suprise it matches really good in resolution with my monitors. The treble on the FSP may sound so "unnatural" like I often read in reviews, because its so dry. I think its the missing in-room reverberation. I would prefer if it wouldn't compare that good because I really hate the comfort factor on the FSP. :D Wasn't the sound balance I have returned them immideatily

 

And You're right that the 7520 driver mis-match may just be a product variation. Couldn't test a second pair as they are hard to get in Europe. The mismatch wasn't really obvious in stereo but if I switched to mono it was noticable. In the time I tested the 7520 i found some flaws in my current project/master that wasn't clear audible with the FSPs/Genelecs. Even with that microscopic characteristic I decide against the 7520 because of the bassy balance and the huge dip. Fore sure its good to have a dip there. Its enjoable for fun listening also a thick big bass. But for mastering and mix decisions its a worse case, as you would lead to think the mix sounds ok, while somenones ears starting to bleed because of to much sharp 4,5Khz. I think you know what I' trying to indicate. Its the studio headphone thread. So I think preferation shouldn't be an remarkable attribute.

 

So as always measurements don't tell the so hole story. Just an indication. The soundstage for example on the 7520 is so narrow. You couldn't tell alone with graphs. For me its important to have trustful can to save time on making mix decisions. But of course I want also enjoy other music too. 

 

P.S.: I maybe update the graphs with csd graphs later on when I find time.

 

 

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