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Chord Hugo - Page 579

post #8671 of 8681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Watts View Post

Don't apologise for lack of knowledge - I would not be doing this if I wasn't discovering new things.

You have two things going on - the RF noise leaking into Hugo's ground plane, then creating havoc with the analog electronics. Random RF noise creates noise floor modulation (the noise pumps up and down with the audio signal) making it sound harder and bright - if it gets really bad, the treble will sound grainy and aggressive. The second problem is signal related audio frequency noise; this is at its worse at 0 when all the bits changeover from all 0's to all 1's (and 1's to all 0's) as the signal crosses through 0 and goes negative. This small current gets into the ground plane and corrupts the analogue signal, making the fundamental linearity worse - so a -120dB signal will now be say -119dB. These very small changes have the audible effect of confusing the brains ability to perceive depth of sound-stage. Depth of image is a hobby horse of mine, both from the listening POV and from the understanding POV (why is reproduced audio so bad at reproducing depth? what are the engineering factors?). Now I know that fundamental linearity is important to depth perception, but to what levels is it important, and are there other factors?

Anyhow, I digress. The Olimex will eliminate the LF noise currents. As to RF, it has a few pF of capacitive coupling, but optical will be perfect from this POV. But I think a few pF is good enough isolation. On my tests, I have a Olimex on the SD, and another USB card fed via optical. I can't hear a difference between them when the source is the same, so if you are hearing something, then I think perhaps something else is at play.

Rob

Hi Rob
Thanks for your reply. So can we just replace Olimex with optical, as the later can play hires to get the same quality of music?
post #8672 of 8681

Yes, but optical will only run at 192 kHz, and some transmitters only up to 96 kHz. But portable devices suffer far less from this problem - my testing has been with PC's. Mobile devices (they have very low power electronics so much lower noise)  don't seem to need it - see earlier in this thread.

 

Rob 

post #8673 of 8681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Watts View Post
 

Don't apologise for lack of knowledge - I would not be doing this if I wasn't discovering new things.

 

You have two things going on - the RF noise leaking into Hugo's ground plane, then creating havoc with the analog electronics. Random RF noise creates noise floor modulation (the noise pumps up and down with the audio signal) making it sound harder and bright - if it gets really bad, the treble will sound grainy and aggressive. The second problem is signal related audio frequency noise; this is at its worse at 0 when all the bits changeover from all 0's to all 1's (and 1's to all 0's) as the signal crosses through 0 and goes negative. This small current gets into the ground plane and corrupts the analogue signal, making the fundamental linearity worse - so a -120dB signal will now be say -119dB. These very small changes have the audible effect of confusing the brains ability to perceive depth of sound-stage. Depth of image is a hobby horse of mine, both from the listening POV and from the understanding POV (why is reproduced audio so bad at reproducing depth? what are the engineering factors?). Now I know that fundamental linearity is important to depth perception, but to what levels is it important, and are there other factors?

 

Anyhow, I digress. The Olimex will eliminate the LF noise currents. As to RF, it has a few pF of capacitive coupling, but optical will be perfect from this POV. But I think a few pF is good enough isolation. On my tests, I have a Olimex on the SD, and another USB card fed via optical. I can't hear a difference between them when the source is the same, so if you are hearing something, then I think perhaps something else is at play.

 

Rob

 

Hi Rob - it's good new about the Olimex helping with RF issues on the SD input, but alas this still seems to leave issues for those of us who want to play 24/96 and 24/192 material through the HD input. It's a real fankle unlplugging and plugging in USB leads!

 

Do you think this http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iusbpower/ USB power supply is a good way to go? I know it's made by another manufacturer, but as far as I can tell reading through the sales-talk, it does claim to clean up the 5V supply considerably, breaks the ground connection between the DAC and the computer, and has a 3-stage 6th order RF filter. It will pass 24/192 and it does work with the HD input of the Hugo, which means that it could be an alternative to the Olimex that would work for all resolutions, and with the HD input.

 

Or would a USB to optical s/pdif converter be a better way to go? 

 

'Scuse the questions, it's just that the Hugo is so wonderfully good that I want the best way of listening to my hi-res studio masters I can get, and I'd really prefer not to have to fiddle with cables.


Edited by AndrewOld - 10/27/14 at 12:03pm
post #8674 of 8681

I've momentarily lost all interest in the Hugo - words like 'fankle' tell me i may be in way over my head here  :D

post #8675 of 8681
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewOld View Post
 

 

Hi Rob - it's good new about the Olimex helping with RF issues on the SD input, but alas this still seems to leave issues for those of us who want to play 24/96 and 24/192 material through the HD input. It's a real fankle unlplugging and plugging in USB leads!

 

Do you think this http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iusbpower/ USB power supply is a good way to go? I know it's made by another manufacturer, but as far as I can tell reading through the sales-talk, it does claim to clean up the 5V supply considerably, breaks the ground connection between the DAC and the computer, and has a 3-stage 6th order RF filter. It will pass 24/192 and it does work with the HD input of the Hugo, which means that it could be an alternative to the Olimex that would work for all resolutions, and with the HD input.

 

Or would a USB to optical s/pdif converter be a better way to go? 

 

'Scuse the questions, it's just that the Hugo is so wonderfully good that I want the best way of listening to my hi-res studio masters I can get, and I'd really prefer not to have to fiddle with cables.

Don't worry about the 5v on the USB, it is only used to detect that a USB is connected, and then powers up the HD USB chip. It has no influence on SQ, as the RF on the 5v is decoupled. Some people have reported that USB to optical works well with Hugo, and they should work OK. But if you are using a mobile device for the source, don't worry, as the noise levels due to the low power electronics is already very low.

 

Rob

post #8676 of 8681
listened and compared coaxial connected to CDP and USB hd input via windows tab and chord asio driver. sound via hd USB is cleaner and has wider soundstage and more separation. it is also quieter with hd USB. difference is subtle but discernable. I thought there should not therefore be any issue with USB input regarding rf noise. IMHO resolution of Hugo exceeds the ADC and digital processing done during recording and mastering stages as it brings out the distortion and anomalies introduced to vocals during processing with out being analytical or adding its own distortion. great achievement indeed. I believe after ADC has done discrete sampling, the job of creating the analog wave form closer to original is far more difficult. even the DAC of same manufacturer as ADC may not guarantee the faithful conversion closer to original as both processes are totally different. kudos to mr watts and chord for designing such a revolutionary product at such price point.
post #8677 of 8681

Question for Rob - Successor to the Qute HD ...

 

Hi Rob,

 

I can't resist asking you this.

 

I have a Qute HD and would love to replace it with a Hugo, but I don't need the portability, just an always on, static, DAC.

 

Can you say if there is a replacement in sight for the Qute HD having the Hugo's specs?

 

 

Thanks for any hints you may feel able to give ....

 

Cheers.

post #8678 of 8681
Bit off topic but Tidal has been released. Highest stream content. Sounded pretty good the few minutes I listened to it Check it out!
post #8679 of 8681

How much time it takes to full charge Hugo with stock batteries and with panasonic NCR18650B with additional protection?

Now I have to charge my stock Hugo for 10+ hours :(  My e-cig's 18650 batteries (sony 18650vtc5 2600 mAh)  is charging for 1-2 hours.

post #8680 of 8681
Quote:
Originally Posted by SearchOfSub View Post

Bit off topic but Tidal has been released. Highest stream content. Sounded pretty good the few minutes I listened to it Check it out!

It sounds great, even better than Qobuz. (in my system).

post #8681 of 8681

fwiw, I'm getting really nice results with the Hugo and my Grado GS1000e phones, both with my external amp (a Rudistor) or direct. It's a full, rich midrange and nice plump vocals, no EQ needed.

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