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Chord Hugo - Page 526

post #7876 of 7889
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisnon View Post
 

Then he is correct Ted. He said it does not PLAY DSD natively…just like CH Precision. They both accept the DSD data natively and thn converts it internally to PCM  in the Dac section. Even Rob is on record as saying he thinks his solution sounds better than native. i dont agree, but I see his logic and admire his conviction and follow through on this point.


Then he (the OP) shouldn't be surprised...cuz that's what happens on 95% of all other DSD-capable DACs at some point in the path (even the Directstream, a "chasm DAC" in your vernacular).  Meitner, PD, Lampi, and the chipsets used in the iDSD stuff are part of the 5% and even there the paths are all vastly different.  I took his native comment to mean something else entirely (as soooo many on these forums use that term to mean many things...like something other than DoP, for example).  I mean, is upconverting to DSD128 (Meitner et al) really "native" anyway??


Edited by ted_b - Today at 12:24 pm

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post #7877 of 7889
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted_b View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Oh, I didn't know the Hugo couldn't play DSD formats natively. Ah well, I uploaded a few videos showcasing the main LED indicators within the Hugo.

 
Nice video, but the sample rate on 176.4Khz is listed as 172.6 or something.  Other than that, good job.

BTW, the Hugo does input DSD natively.  DoP is indeed native, if you define native as no conversion to PCM.  The only direct (i.e no DoP) is ASIO.  Some Linux developers are working on ASIO for Linux, but for now all Linux implementations are DoP...which is still native in my book.  Now...what a DAC does to DSD internally is all over the board, just as it is with PCM.  But the industry common parlance is that if a DAC supports the DSD formats (DSF, DFF) as input then it is a DSD-capable DAC.  If it converts to PCM before it ever gets to the DAC section (aka early Astell Kern AK4xx series), or asks that your convert before giving it to the inputs (aka Berkeley Reference) then it is not DSD-capable.
Dooh, you're right about that sampling rate. I always seem to mistype that one because I don't actually have any music in that sampling rate (I just made a pink noise file in Audacity).

Ah, I didn't know that. I tried looking up DoP and I have no idea what it means. I just found that JRiver Media Center uses it to playback DSD files and I thought DoP was a conversion to PCM. I don't actually know what ASIO is either except that it's one of the playback pathways for playing DSD files through Foobar.
post #7878 of 7889

Signals have a picture of a very special Hugo on their facebook page :p

 

https://www.facebook.com/SignalsHQ?v=wall

 

Will be at the show tomorrow afternoon to have a close up look, can take photos if any one interested

post #7879 of 7889
Quote:
Originally Posted by obsidyen View Post
 

 

Indeed, that'd be great. Philips dac chips were among the best sounding chips in 80s and 90s. They had that European sound signature.

 

I admit that my grasp on the history of those killer chips from the 'golden age of CDPs' is a little hazy - I didnt even realise that Burr-Brown stopped making chips under their own brand when they were taken over by TI in 2000.  Someone must have kept stocks of the old B-B chips as they are still implemented in various DACs.

 

Implementation is everything in a DAC, and I expect that will be even more pronounced with the FPGA DACs that I can only assume will come in the wake of the Hugo and DirectStream. 


Edited by estreeter - Today at 2:23 pm
post #7880 of 7889
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted_b View Post
 


Then he (the OP) shouldn't be surprised...cuz that's what happens on 95% of all other DSD-capable DACs at some point in the path (even the Directstream, a "chasm DAC" in your vernacular).  Meitner, PD, Lampi, and the chipsets used in the iDSD stuff are part of the 5% and even there the paths are all vastly different.  I took his native comment to mean something else entirely (as soooo many on these forums use that term to mean many things...like something other than DoP, for example).  I mean, is upconverting to DSD128 (Meitner et al) really "native" anyway??

True, but among the 95%, tehre are those who use DSD capable chips and those who don't. The BB1704 is definitely NOT DSD capable and does not even pretend to be so, yet still "DSD ready" dacs use it. The Hugo as well does not pretend to be DSD capable. It takes the signal in DSD form and upconverts to 2048fs PCM and remains forever after in the PCM domain.

 

Native definition to me is easy, but I grant you that many try to obfuscate. Native is remaining fully in bitstream at whatever rate.So yes, Meither, EMM, PBD are native. If you have niot heard native, you have not truly heard DSD. It may sound good, but it aint DSD.

 

Anyway, we understand each other and I now see you were trying to interpret what the OP meant.


Edited by wisnon - Today at 2:32 pm
post #7881 of 7889
Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post
 

 

I admit that my grasp on the history of those killer chips from the 'golden age of CDPs' is a little hazy - I didnt even realise that Burr-Brown stopped making chips under their own brand when they were taken over by TI in 2000.  Someone must have kept stocks of the old B-B chips as they are still implemented in various DACs.

 

Implementation is everything in a DAC, and I expect that will be even more pronounced with the FPGA DACs that I can only assume will come in the wake of the Hugo and DirectStream. 

 

I'm only 28 but my father is an audiophile too so I played with a lot of audio gear when I was a kid. I still remember our lovely Meridian cd player back in early 90s. It's the reason why I love Meridian so much, and why I have Meridian speakers and system in my living room.

 

It is true that old BB chips are still being used, they are reported to sound more analog/real than modern chips. iFi Audio (AMR) is one of those manufacturers who use them. I agree with them in that regard, as modern dac chips (especially now commonly used ESS Sabre chips) tend to be detailed but over-analytical and cold, somewhat non-musical. This is what differentiates Hugo, it is like a technically more advanced old-school dac. Musical and resolving. Not just resolving.


Edited by obsidyen - Today at 2:31 pm
post #7882 of 7889
Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post
 

 

I admit that my grasp on the history of those killer chips from the 'golden age of CDPs' is a little hazy - I didnt even realise that Burr-Brown stopped making chips under their own brand when they were taken over by TI in 2000.  Someone must have kept stocks of the old B-B chips as they are still implemented in various DACs.

 

Implementation is everything in a DAC, and I expect that will be even more pronounced with the FPGA DACs that I can only assume will come in the wake of the Hugo and DirectStream. 

I guess you also see how differently these chips can be implemented when you throw out the spec sheet and suggested implementation manuals they come with and run them the way YOU the Dac designer wants to.

 

There are many ways to skin a cat in this business.

post #7883 of 7889
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisnon View Post
 

I guess you also see how differently these chips can be implemented when you throw out the spec sheet and suggested implementation manuals they come with and run them the way YOU the Dac designer wants to.

 

There are many ways to skin a cat in this business.


Yes I agree, it is the sum of whole parts that make the sound signature, not just some standalone chips. Many a time, we are obsessed with the kind of DAC chips, ops amps, whatsoever but comparing 2 DAPs from 2 different brands or even the same brand but different product category, you can hear a difference, it is simply a matter of design (Electronics) and control (Firmware) that makes all the difference of the sound signature.

post #7884 of 7889
I too have a Chord Hugo. I have used a Moon Audio Silver Dragon usb cable from my MBP and the Hugo. Very very happy with the fit, finish & sound. I have 18" and a 3' and both work great. If anything, the small USB almost fits too tight so be careful on disconnect. When ordering, tell Drew that it will be used with a Hugo and he will ensure the correct USB gets used. The cable is a nice silver variety. They also have copper & copper/ silver mix.

Moon Audio
www.moon-audio.com
post #7885 of 7889
Frank, please see my post (#7874) above. After reader you post, I would be happy to hear/ read your comments & suggestions.

Papa Kief
post #7886 of 7889

Thanks this is helpful. Have you compared the sonic signature to copper mixes?

post #7887 of 7889
I have both the Blue Dragon & Silver Dragon. To me the Silver Dragon is slightly more detailed & a little brighter up top. The Blue Dragon has a more relaxed overall sound that is nice too. I feel it depends on the type of music and headphones used. I use both Shure se425 IEM's & Senn HD650's.
post #7888 of 7889
If you email Drew at Moon Audio, he is readily available and is very knowledgable when it comes to cables & headphones. I would suggest you email him. He's very helpful.
post #7889 of 7889
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisnon View Post
 

I guess you also see how differently these chips can be implemented when you throw out the spec sheet and suggested implementation manuals they come with and run them the way YOU the Dac designer wants to.

 

There are many ways to skin a cat in this business.

 

I dont know what kind of manual Rob got with the Xilinx but I'm assuming that he most definitely did it his way, hence my point re future FPGA implementations. Hopefully it will put an end to the spec nazis who see SABRE anywhere on the product page and immediately pronounce it DOA.

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