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computer as source issues ?? - Page 2

post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by cswann1 View Post
 

 

 

I would not defrag often.  Once you have done a defrag, your music files should stay put.  Defragging introduces a risk of small data corruptions and is pretty tough on your HDD's mechanical parts. On a fairly full disc doing a defrag that takes several hours you are basically putting a few months worth of wear and tear on the mechanical parts. So defragging should only be done when it's really needed.


Where do you guys get this stuff? That is not true at all. You music files will go exactly in the free space the defrag puts them (whole) along with other files, WHOLE. any addition and deletion of files again creates fragmentation (but in this case not necessarily the files that were contiguous and have not been moved)

 

Defrag DOES not introduce data corruption and the only time you put wear and tear (as you call it) is by WAITING months to defrag instead of doing it weekly. It should only take hours on

1) a very old machine

2) a VERY heavily fragmented hard drive...Like one you waited months to do...

 

Shesh...where does this crap come from ? I mean serious? People who spout this stuff cannot be in the business of supporting SYSTEMS. I am sorry to be so vehement, I really am, but this is how false information gets propagated across the internet. You write it, someone believes it, they write it...next thing you know, someone else sees it and thinks...It must be true, I read it on the internet.

 

Excerpt from a technical white paper on SQL Server fragmentation (which differs slightly from physical hardware fragmentation)

~Physical disk fragmentation is likely what comes to mind when fragmentation is first discussed. Physical fragmentation is a side effect of how hard drives and Windows work. It is common knowledge that regular disk defragmentation is required to achieve optimal performance from your PC. Windows even includes a basic defragmentation utility. Physical fragmentation slows down your PC because reading data is interrupted by head seek delay. Windows fits files into free space, often breaking the file into segments stored apart from one another. A hard drive’s head relocates to read each individual segment. As it moves to each segment the head ‘seeks’ - often at a cost of 3-4 times the time it takes to read the segment itself. Physical fragmentation primarily affects desktop or laptop PCs containing one hard drive. The single drive must sequentially gather data – so on a fragmented disk it seeks, reads, seeks, reads - these 4 operations are performed one after another. Defragmented, the operation ends up as seek, read, read. We reduce the total cost of 24ms to 15ms in our simple example. Physical defragmentation products such as Windows defrag, Power Defrag™, Page Defrag™ (another Microsoft tool), or the granddaddy of them all, Diskeeper 2011™ work very well when repairing segmented files. Diskeeper’s technology is licensed to Microsoft as the defragmentation tool internal to Windows. In fact, Diskeeper’s latest innovations bring physical defragmentation capabilities to a completely new level. All of these products reorder the data on your disk, consolidating files into fewer segments to minimize “head seeks” – providing faster boot times, quicker file reads, and a more responsive system overall.

post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcorob View Post
 


JD...good call...and in short terms, this would go back to too many services running OR USB IRQ conflicts.

OR a bad driver somewhere (eg nvidia). you can use latencymon (http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon) to help further diagnose the issue if you indeed see DPC latency spikes. sometimes you won't be able to find out exactly which driver is the culprit though, especially if the issue is relatively rare

 

unfortunately there is no way around this issue if it is a bad driver for an essential component (eg usb controller or graphics card)


Edited by Jd007 - 1/28/14 at 9:09am
post #18 of 20
Thanks for the argument from authority, its the best way to kill discussions.  If you want to prove your credentials by mentioning hex, binary, assembly language programming, I'm not really impressed because that's basically programming 101 stuff an engineering student learns in their undergraduate course. 
 
What I stated was that defragging the hard drive is unlikely to solve the audio stutter problem as he did not mention that he was experiencing issues elsewhere.  For someone who has worked so long in the industry, I find it confusing that you haven't even bothered trying to isolate the issue and instead suggested messing around with background applications/services and defragging.  Even if you say you are a professional, why wouldn't you try isolating the core issue? When it is as easy as playing the audio file from another storage device and seeing if you can replicate the issue?  
 
Once you've done this then you can test latency, SMART, and (yes!) defrag.  Again, if you do these things in a methodical manner, you save headaches for yourself.  
 

defragsvc is the service that will automatically defrag the operating system when it is idle and it exists in both Windows 7 and 8.  You do not need to do anything, if you leave the laptop alone for a few minutes, Windows will automatically defrag your system for you.  If you leave you laptop on at night to download, it will also defrag itself unless you messed around with the settings as Windows 7 and 8 both have daily scheduled defrag periods.  Also, hard drive caches exist to improve and/or alleviate drive performance issues by facilitating things such as read ahead and NCQ - both things aid performance in fragmented systems.  Hence why I find it doubtful its fragmentation as modern systems try to deal with the problem via hardware and software - if you're using a non-NTFS system, like Mac OS or some Linux distro, its even less of a problem. 

 

(Yes I know fragmentation kills performance.  It is unlikely for a Windows 7 or Windows 8 PC with any moment of idle time to end up like an old Windows XP PC in regards to fragmentation unless you went out of your way to tell the OS to never defrag your system)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd007 View Post
 

OR a bad driver somewhere (eg nvidia). you can use latencymon (http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon) to help further diagnose the issue if you indeed see DPC latency spikes. sometimes you won't be able to find out exactly which driver is the culprit though, especially if the issue is relatively rare

 

unfortunately there is no way around this issue if it is a bad driver for an essential component (eg usb controller or graphics card)

 

 

Reminds me of the old PS/2 port problem on those old nForce boards.  If you ever used those PS/2 ports with those nForce chipset boards, I/O latency would go through the roof for whatever reason. 


Edited by jeffreyw311 - 1/28/14 at 8:37pm
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreyw311 View Post
 
Thanks for the argument from authority, its the best way to kill discussions.  If you want to prove your credentials by mentioning hex, binary, assembly language programming, I'm not really impressed because that's basically programming 101 stuff an engineering student learns in their undergraduate course. 
 
What I stated was that defragging the hard drive is unlikely to solve the audio stutter problem as he did not mention that he was experiencing issues elsewhere.  For someone who has worked so long in the industry, I find it confusing that you haven't even bothered trying to isolate the issue and instead suggested messing around with background applications/services and defragging.  Even if you say you are a professional, why wouldn't you try isolating the core issue? When it is as easy as playing the audio file from another storage device and seeing if you can replicate the issue?  
 
Once you've done this then you can test latency, SMART, and (yes!) defrag.  Again, if you do these things in a methodical manner, you save headaches for yourself.  
 

defragsvc is the service that will automatically defrag the operating system when it is idle and it exists in both Windows 7 and 8.  You do not need to do anything, if you leave the laptop alone for a few minutes, Windows will automatically defrag your system for you.  If you leave you laptop on at night to download, it will also defrag itself unless you messed around with the settings as Windows 7 and 8 both have daily scheduled defrag periods.  Also, hard drive caches exist to improve and/or alleviate drive performance issues by facilitating things such as read ahead and NCQ - both things aid performance in fragmented systems.  Hence why I find it doubtful its fragmentation as modern systems try to deal with the problem via hardware and software - if you're using a non-NTFS system, like Mac OS or some Linux distro, its even less of a problem. 

 

(Yes I know fragmentation kills performance.  It is unlikely for a Windows 7 or Windows 8 PC with any moment of idle time to end up like an old Windows XP PC in regards to fragmentation unless you went out of your way to tell the OS to never defrag your system)

 

 

 

Reminds me of the old PS/2 port problem on those old nForce boards.  If you ever used those PS/2 ports with those nForce chipset boards, I/O latency would go through the roof for whatever reason. 

Deleted because intelligence is limited but stupidity knows no bounds...


Edited by arcorob - 1/31/14 at 6:34am
post #20 of 20

Some time ago I made a tutorial to set up windows like I have to help other people from a forum in my country, I put you the google translation and maybe helps you to... the sreens are in spanish but I think there is no problem to understand...

 

http://translate.google.es/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.auriculares-hifi.com%2Fforo%2Findex.php%2Ftopic%2C521.0.html&act=url


Edited by Remior - 2/1/14 at 4:47am
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