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Balanced Armatures and BASS - Page 2

post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 
ER4 may have staying power but these days its regarded more of a mid tier level IEM if that. Multi-drivers don't dance around ER4, they crap all over ER4.

10 years ago ER4 was among the best that was out there. I remember all the threads on what was king of universals....ER4 or Shure E4 or E5.

But today there are SO many better choices due to advancements in IEMs. ER4 is more of a nostalgia product these days anyway.
Edited by Spyro - 1/25/14 at 6:20pm
post #17 of 25

I still consider the ER-4 to be very accurate despite the lack of tactile bass or room gain type bass.

The midrange and treble response are very good without being harsh or unpleasant.

It might be considered mid-tier today with all the FOTM products that are out there, but the ER-4 is a tried and true classic.

http://en.goldenears.net/en/files/attach/images/108/704/020/789343833fcc14accc150eb713292416.png

post #18 of 25

-8dB in mids?! I hope you aren;t listening to vocals.

post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

ER4 may have staying power but these days its regarded more of a mid tier level IEM if that. Multi-drivers don't dance around ER4, they crap all over ER4.

In 2006, Don Wilson said:

Do you need a dual driver IEM, or did some marketing genius convince you that two drivers are better than one?

 

His question is no less relevant today. You're entitled to your own subjective opinion, though.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

-8dB in mids?! I hope you aren;t listening to vocals.

It's the green and blue lines, not the dotted line.


Edited by higbvuyb - 2/4/14 at 3:49am
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by higbvuyb View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

ER4 may have staying power but these days its regarded more of a mid tier level IEM if that. Multi-drivers don't dance around ER4, they crap all over ER4.

In 2006, Don Wilson said:

Do you need a dual driver IEM, or did some marketing genius convince you that two drivers are better than one?

 

His question is no less relevant today. You're entitled to your own subjective opinion, though.

I believe like sennheiser does, that 1 dynamic driver well done is better than several with all the crossover troubles. but with BA drivers it's not the same music. I'm still waiting for a single BA  driver IEM that does not roll off badly. the er4 is yet to be surpassed in that respect, but still the er4 sub bass extension/quantity is far from satisfying.

post #21 of 25

It's well extended, but the punch you are looking for is probably not there.

Why not use an EQ then?

post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by EtyFan View Post
 

It's well extended, but the punch you are looking for is probably not there.

Why not use an EQ then?

 

I did ^_^. 

the punch (80hz and above) is actually good enough for me. I'm a fake basshead and get used to the level of bass after a few minutes on the er4, what I miss compared to fullsize phones is some serious rumble (60hz and under). and that I couldn't get without making a mess out of those poor er4s.

boosting the sub bass requires a huge boost for little effect. +5db doesn't sound at all like a +5db. and It seems to affect the mids and trebles long before I can get a satisfying level of rumble. so in the end I used only very little boost to keep high freqs at an er4 quality level. as after all, I didn't buy the er4 to make them sound like my IE80.

anyway EQing down a small part always gave me better results than trying to boost something(and I'm not even talking about clipping).

 

in any case, I don't think it can work on a wide enough range. and I don't think any BA can, single or multi driver. multi BAs seem to give an overall more satisfying result when the crossovers are well done, but really they usually amputate the trebles after 13 or 14khz and end up humiliated by the trebles of the er4. I really don't know why, but that's what I've heard consistently over the years. 1BA lack of sub bass extension, multi BA lack of treble extension.

post #23 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by castleofargh View Post
 

I believe like sennheiser does, that 1 dynamic driver well done is better than several with all the crossover troubles. but with BA drivers it's not the same music. I'm still waiting for a single BA  driver IEM that does not roll off badly. the er4 is yet to be surpassed in that respect, but still the er4 sub bass extension/quantity is far from satisfying.

In my experience dynamic bass driver is slow and sloppy sounding and too easy to distort.  As far as bass texture and impact I much prefer a good BA like the Westone Pro30 I'm currently using.

post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by castleofargh View Post
 

I did ^_^. 

the punch (80hz and above) is actually good enough for me. I'm a fake basshead and get used to the level of bass after a few minutes on the er4, what I miss compared to fullsize phones is some serious rumble (60hz and under). and that I couldn't get without making a mess out of those poor er4s.

boosting the sub bass requires a huge boost for little effect. +5db doesn't sound at all like a +5db. and It seems to affect the mids and trebles long before I can get a satisfying level of rumble. so in the end I used only very little boost to keep high freqs at an er4 quality level. as after all, I didn't buy the er4 to make them sound like my IE80.

anyway EQing down a small part always gave me better results than trying to boost something(and I'm not even talking about clipping).

 

I think the Q factor of your bass lift is set too low, too wide.

 

in any case, I don't think it can work on a wide enough range. and I don't think any BA can, single or multi driver. multi BAs seem to give an overall more satisfying result when the crossovers are well done, but really they usually amputate the trebles after 13 or 14khz and end up humiliated by the trebles of the er4. I really don't know why, but that's what I've heard consistently over the years. 1BA lack of sub bass extension, multi BA lack of treble extension.

 

High frequency extension and quantity is a problem with most in-ears, the Ety simply makes the most of the limited extension, and cuts off right at the 16khz peak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyro View Post
In my experience dynamic bass driver is slow and sloppy sounding and too easy to distort.  As far as bass texture and impact I much prefer a good BA like the Westone Pro30 I'm currently using.

 

Dynamic driver in-ears generally have far lower distortion, both in quantity and in order, than balanced armature designs. Generally.

 

About the topic: etys tend to be slightly shorthanded in the subbass zone, so I'm not sure that the etys alone invalidates the idea that neutral=natural by itself. Granted, people gravitate to some amount of bass boost during audio testing, so this isn't invalid either. If put to the test, I'd imagine there would be a lot of issues with maintaining seal on a canalphone between a variety of listeners.


Edited by briskly - 2/5/14 at 9:19pm
post #25 of 25

Above 16kHz ear simulators aren't all that reliable, but there isn't much sound information up there anyway. Especially if your ears aren't young anymore.

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