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Explain the use and benefits of tube amps? - Page 3

post #31 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post

I find it kind of funny that some folks actually want to add distortion to what was recorded. When I play electric guitar, yes that's when I want to add tube distortion and plenty of it. When I listen to what was recorded, no thank you.

Not that I believe it, but the other day I heard someone say that tube distortion helps simulate the sound you get from speakers, since with speakers you have the air between the drivers as well as room reflections mucking up the sound and adding a sense of "depth." rolleyes.gif
post #32 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

I find it kind of funny that some folks actually want to add distortion to what was recorded. When I play electric guitar, yes that's when I want to add tube distortion and plenty of it. When I listen to what was recorded, no thank you.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post


Not that I believe it, but the other day I heard someone say that tube distortion helps simulate the sound you get from speakers, since with speakers you have the air between the drivers as well as room reflections mucking up the sound and adding a sense of "depth." rolleyes.gif

That's the craziest thing I've heard in a while although not as wild as how a USB cable can improve the soundstage or increase treble, etc. Apparently the human imagination is limitless. :blink:

post #33 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookinaround View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post
 

About 6 years ago, my first headphone amp and tube experience was a Musical Fidelity X-Can v3 (450 bucks retail) hybrid.  When I took it home I noticed microphonics when I tapped it.  Returned it to the store and they were happy to exchange for another unit.  It still did the same thing.  I just kept that unit.  But it always bugged me - this is not perfection in my mind.

 

After a few months I then bought a Lehman Cube solid state amp after auditioning, the bass was so much tighter and extended and the rest of the response sounded more precise at a retail price of $1100 It has to be an upgrade.  Solid state is more precise everywhere.

 

There was no going back...for a few months...after which I started to notice that a lot of instruments are not coming out of the mix like it used to...something was missing and I can't say what.  So I unboxed the MFV3 hook it back up and there it was, the dimensionality and image trajection was back.  I then noticed the treble sounded much better to me.  The bass was not as good nor is it as detailed.

 

I have since sold the Lehman amp.  The V3 is right here by my computer monitor with an upgraded V3 power supply and a few tweaks with different capacitors...it still resonates every time I tap the table.

 

Your first headphone amp will come with slight OCD - better off with a solid state for beginners then I suppose.

 

Before Head-Fi I had a Rotel solid state amplifier driving my speakers, now I have a full tube amp driving them.  I can live without solid state, but not without tubes - despite that I can clearly hear the measured superiority of a good solid state amp over any tube amp.  Some good solid state stuff can take you oh so close to tube sound - but without a tube it will always be trying to sound like a tube, never quite getting there.

Awesome reply, this is exactly what I was looking for. I'm just wondering though, how long does it usually resonate after it gets tapped? I know it'll probably be a little different for every unit, but just to get a ballpark idea

If it's a good tube, it won't resonate, period.  A very slightly microphonic tube may only reproduce the tap (a direct tap on the tube) through your headphone, nothing more.  Usually, those are easily lived with.  A badly microphonic tube will ring from just bumping the desk the amp sits on.  If it's that sensitive, chances are it will go on for many minutes, perhaps never effectively quieting down.

 

I apologize, but I get upset about this because of a recently released tube amp.  Those tubes were known in the industry as majority microphonic.  Note the post you replied to - the vendor cheerfully replace the entire amp.  Unfortunately, in most tube amps all they would've had to replace is the tube.  The X-Can stuff encloses the tube completely within the box, so I suppose that was too much to ask for the vendor to do in that case.   

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

I find it kind of funny that some folks actually want to add distortion to what was recorded. When I play electric guitar, yes that's when I want to add tube distortion and plenty of it. When I listen to what was recorded, no thank you.

There is no reason for a tube amp to have more distortion than solid-state.  At the high end, tubes and solid-state are functionally equal.  Every see a Blue Hawaii?  It's designed to power Stax SR-7's and SR-9's.  It's a tube amp.


Edited by tomb - 1/18/14 at 8:31pm
post #34 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post
 

Let me be clear: you are misleading people.  This is a beginner's section and you're spreading around the pseudo-fact that all tubes have microphonics.  The implication is that everyone should expect to hear ringing when they purchase a tube amplifier.

 

That is manifestly untrue.


I did not once say that all tubes have audible microphonics, and I certainly did not say that people should expect ringing with all tube amplifiers. My post that started this implied the opposite -- that the Vali is different. 

Let me be clear: you are unable to recognize the difference between my words and the words that you have put in my mouth. Please work on your ability to read literally before you jump on people.  


Your later posts seemed quite clear: you were stating that all tubes have microphonics and there wasn't any clarification that you were talking about audibility. In the right design with the right tubes, there is no deficiency from one to the other: tube vs. solid-state.

 

I apologize however, and will leave it alone.

post #35 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post
 

If it's a good tube, it won't resonate, period.  A very slightly microphonic tube may only reproduce the tap (a direct tap on the tube) through your headphone, nothing more.  Usually, those are easily lived with.  A badly microphonic tube will ring from just bumping the desk the amp sits on.  If it's that sensitive, chances are it will go on for many minutes, perhaps never effectively quieting down.

 

I apologize, but I get upset about this because of the Vali.  Those tubes were known in the industry as majority microphonic.  Note the post you replied to - the vendor cheerfully replace the entire amp.  Unfortunately, in most tube amps all they would've had to replace is the tube.  The X-Can stuff encloses the tube completely within the box, so I suppose that was too much to ask for the vendor to do in that case.   

 

There is no reason for a tube amp to have more distortion than solid-state.  At the high end, tubes and solid-state are functionally equal.  Every see a Blue Hawaii?  It's designed to power Stax SR-7's and SR-9's.  It's a tube amp.

Powering the Stax is the unusual case. I definitely believe that a proper tube design is low distortion just as an SS amp. It is easier/cheaper to produce a low distortion SS amp. I just find it amusing that people look for a tube amp that colors the sound with increased even order distortion to change the "sound profile" of their cans. IMO they should buy cans that sound right in the first place. Actually in many situations they have excellent cans that need no tampering. Perhaps it's the entertainment.

I'd just get a good clean tube amp and be happy.


Edited by StanD - 1/18/14 at 8:32pm
post #36 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

Powering the Stax is the unusual case. I definitely believe that a proper tube design is low distortion just as an SS amp. It is easier/cheaper to produce a low distortion SS amp. I just find it amusing that people look for a tube amp that colors the sound with increased even order distortion to change the "sound profile" of their cans. IMO they should buy cans that sound right in the first place. Actually in many situations they have excellent cans that need no tampering. Perhaps it's the entertainment.

I'd just get a good clean tube amp and be happy.


I agree to some extent -- a tube amp usually won't turn headphones you don't like into headphones you do like. But I think some distortion or even just a different sound can be enjoyable as a change of flavor. I suppose this counts as entertainment. Variety can be nice, especially when you are in the early to middle stages of this hobby and don't know exactly what you are looking for. Gotta try something to know if you like it, and tubes make some people curious. But this not to say that all tube amps sound the same or that tube amps can't have low distortion. 

post #37 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post
 


I agree to some extent -- a tube amp usually won't turn headphones you don't like into headphones you do like. But I think some distortion or even just a different sound can be enjoyable as a change of flavor. I suppose this counts as entertainment. Variety can be nice, especially when you are in the early to middle stages of this hobby and don't know exactly what you are looking for. Gotta try something to know if you like it, and tubes make some people curious. But this not to say that all tube amps sound the same or that tube amps can't have low distortion. 

I guess I'm beyond that stage of needing entertainment by coloration. I must have bypassed it long ago.:D I'm looking for a clean neutral sound, with one vice, extra bass to compensate for the lack of body feel when using cans. I'm quite aware that tubes can be clean, that's what I mean, I want clean.

post #38 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

I find it kind of funny that some folks actually want to add distortion to what was recorded. When I play electric guitar, yes that's when I want to add tube distortion and plenty of it. When I listen to what was recorded, no thank you.

 

Have you actually listened to a good tube amp paired with a well-matched set of speakers?  

 

I find it funny how many people have a definite opinion of tube amps without actually having listened to them, choosing instead to rely on the belief that something as complex as realistic reproduction of instruments can be measured by a simple THD stat.     The sound of an organ live is never "tight and controlled".    Violins in concert are always a little smooth/rolled off compared to the rest of the orchestra.     Compare where you sit and listen to music vs where the mikes are kept.    Consider the deficiencies of the recording system - what is recorded is not perfectly identical to what was being played.

 

It is one thing to hear from people who have listened to tube amps and not found it suited to their sound preferences (for some music, I can see how that might be the case).   I personally find it a bit strange to hear people having such dogmatic opinions when they havent even heard the proper "tube sound" (and no, the Schiit Lyr or Alo Continental are NOT the classical tube sound - ref back to my first post about tubes in single-ended gain stages vs in input or buffer stages).

 

Anyway, if solid state is your thing, have at it.   

 

[quote]I guess I'm beyond that stage of needing entertainment by coloration[/quote]

 

Funnily,  I think i passed the stage of blindly chasing "neutrality" about 20 years ago, after I realized that just b/c it measures well doesnt mean it sounds engaging  :)   Now I prefer a sound that is the closest to how the instrument sounds live.


Edited by vkalia - 1/19/14 at 12:27am
post #39 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkalia View Post

Have you actually listened to a good tube amp paired with a well-matched set of speakers?  

I find it funny how many people have a definite opinion of tube amps without actually having listened to them, choosing instead to rely on the belief that something as complex as realistic reproduction of instruments can be measured by a simple THD stat.     The sound of an organ live is never "tight and controlled".    Violins in concert are always a little smooth/rolled off compared to the rest of the orchestra.     Compare where you sit and listen to music vs where the mikes are kept.    Consider the deficiencies of the recording system - what is recorded is not perfectly identical to what was being played.

It is one thing to hear from people who have listened to tube amps and not found it suited to their sound preferences (for some music, I can see how that might be the case).   I personally find it a bit strange to hear people having such dogmatic opinions when they havent even heard the proper "tube sound" (and no, the Schiit Lyr or Alo Continental are NOT the classical tube sound - ref back to my first post about tubes in single-ended gain stages vs in input or buffer stages).

Anyway, if solid state is your thing, have at it.   
Quote:
I guess I'm beyond that stage of needing entertainment by coloration

Funnily,  I think i passed the stage of blindly chasing "neutrality" about 20 years ago, after I realized that just b/c it measures well doesnt mean it sounds engaging  smily_headphones1.gif   Now I prefer a sound that is the closest to how the instrument sounds live.

Hmm - if the recording captured the live sound as it really was, then shouldn't the playback equipment's job be to accurately reproduce the recording? Or, are you saying that the recording engineer did not accurately capture the live sound, so your playback equipment needs to make up for those deficiencies?
post #40 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkalia View Post
 

 

Have you actually listened to a good tube amp paired with a well-matched set of speakers?  

 

I find it funny how many people have a definite opinion of tube amps without actually having listened to them, choosing instead to rely on the belief that something as complex as realistic reproduction of instruments can be measured by a simple THD stat.     The sound of an organ live is never "tight and controlled".    Violins in concert are always a little smooth/rolled off compared to the rest of the orchestra.     Compare where you sit and listen to music vs where the mikes are kept.    Consider the deficiencies of the recording system - what is recorded is not perfectly identical to what was being played.

 

It is one thing to hear from people who have listened to tube amps and not found it suited to their sound preferences (for some music, I can see how that might be the case).   I personally find it a bit strange to hear people having such dogmatic opinions when they havent even heard the proper "tube sound" (and no, the Schiit Lyr or Alo Continental are NOT the classical tube sound - ref back to my first post about tubes in single-ended gain stages vs in input or buffer stages).

 

Anyway, if solid state is your thing, have at it.   

 

[quote]I guess I'm beyond that stage of needing entertainment by coloration[/quote]

 

Funnily,  I think i passed the stage of blindly chasing "neutrality" about 20 years ago, after I realized that just b/c it measures well doesnt mean it sounds engaging  :)   Now I prefer a sound that is the closest to how the instrument sounds live.

Yes, I've listened to good tube setups, more than once and have owned them as well. Really good tube equipment is clean, unless you overdrive it. In the early days of Class B SS amps, tubes were the only choice, we've come a long way since then. If you want to color things, that's fine with me. You call that engaging, I do not. 'Just because you say, '"The sound of an organ live is never "tight and controlled".' doesn't mean that during playback a clean controlled system is not required, I happen like to listen as closely as possible as was recorded. I realize that is not 100% possible, but IMO why muddy the waters any further.

Yes I agree that the classic tube sound is not a hybrid but with proper output stages and a really good output transformer, not some cheap junk. Done right, such a system isn't big on coloration.


Edited by StanD - 1/19/14 at 8:50am
post #41 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post


Hmm - if the recording captured the live sound as it really was, then shouldn't the playback equipment's job be to accurately reproduce the recording? Or, are you saying that the recording engineer did not accurately capture the live sound, so your playback equipment needs to make up for those deficiencies?

+1

post #42 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post


Hmm - if the recording captured the live sound as it really was, then shouldn't the playback equipment's job be to accurately reproduce the recording? Or, are you saying that the recording engineer did not accurately capture the live sound, so your playback equipment needs to make up for those deficiencies?

 

Dont you think the positioning of the mikes and subsequent mixing may affect how the sound is reproduced vs how it is perceived live in the concert hall (I've seen never seen any mikes amidst the audience, btw)?    Do you think that recording equipment captures the input sound *perfectly* and that the A/D conversion process is absolutely perfect?    

 

There is no proven association to show that low THD equals more *lifelike* reproduction - and a very large number of fans of acoustic instruments and vocals feel quite that second-order distortion actually improves the timbre and body of reproduced sound.   Nelson Pass has an article about it on his website as well.   What someone so definitively calls "coloration", others call "realism".

 

We can argue about this all we want - but in the end, it doesnt matter.  I've owned/listened to a high-end Stereophile-approved solid state rig, I've owned a high-quality tube rig, and I attend a lot of classical concerts live - and while I definitely do not consider myself an audiophile or the snake-oil being peddled as such (silver cables are brighter?   Really?  GMAFB), I know what a violin or a piano or cello sounds like live, and I know which rig reproduces this sound more faithfully.     

 

For the longest time, I avoided tube amps b/c of arguments like the ones on this thread.    It took me a lot of time to convince myself to trust my ears instead of relying on the "Low THD is good" mantra that everyone seems to buy into by default.   And I am so glad I did. My point is not to convince you or others who have made up their mind one way or the other.   It is to have a contrary point of view recorded here for posterity, so that people who are undecided - like the OP - realize that there are 2 sides to the argument.

 

To anyone considering tube amps (esp fans of classical music or jazz) - all I have to say is:  go listen to a good 300B or 2A3 amp with a matching pair of speakers.      You may like it, you may not like it - but either way, you'll form it based on your listening preferences and perceptions, not that of some random guy on the internet who may or may not know his ass from his elbow.    You know what they say about opinions being like a-holes (mine included) - so form your own based on your ears, not quoted pseudo-science.

 

I have made my point and if you disagree, more power to you - as long as you enjoy the music, that's good.    I will, however, in the interest of keeping an open mind and reaching an informed decision, urge you to try a good tube rig, as suggested above.   

post #43 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

Yes, I've listened to good tube setups, more than once and have owned them as well. Really good tube equipment is clean, unless you overdrive it. In the early days of Class B SS amps, tubes were the only choice, we've come a long way since then. If you want to color things, that's fine with me. You call that engaging, I do not. 'Just because you say, '"The sound of an organ live is never "tight and controlled".' doesn't mean that during playback a clean controlled system is not required, I happen like to listen as closely as possible as was recorded. I realize that is not 100% possible, but IMO why muddy the waters any further.

Yes I agree that the classic tube sound is not a hybrid but with proper output stages and a really good output transformer, not some cheap junk. Done right, such a system isn't big on coloration.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, of course and I am not saying for a second that your opinion is wrong.  It is the right opinion - for you.   As I stated in my post above, I am only trying to point out that what you are so definitively claiming as "coloration" is merely an opinion.    And that there are plenty of other opinions which feel that your choice of references is artificial.

 

You may prefer to listen to what was recorded, but that doesnt make it a truism everyone should aspire towards.   Some of us like to listen to a sound that is true to the original.  A tightly- controlled organ doesnt sound anything like the live thing, and personally, I have no desire to have it reproduced that way.     Violins in a concert dont sound as shrill and piercing as they do when reproduced in a system with a flat FR from 20-20k - so why would I want to have my system reproduce them that way?

 

If you prefer an sound that deviates from reality just b/c you have for some reason chosen to use the "recorded signal" as the reference, that's your preference but that doesnt make it a truism.   Heck, from where I sit, that doesnt make any logical sense either.    What you call "hi-fi", I call "artificial" - to me, the true reference is, and should always be, the live sound of an acoustic instrument.       

 

Here's a simple though experiment to illustrate my point (you dont have to agree with me, btw):   Listen to Furtwangler's Bayreuth Beethoven's 9th?    No one in their right mind would argue that that recording is a suitable "reference standards".    It is a mere extension of that logic to realize that even today's recordings - even though they are a lot better than in the 40s or 50s - do not capture the live sound perfectly: I dont think anyone would argue that a system that reproduced the audio signal perfectly would reproduce the concert perfectly.   

 

So now you have 2 options - you can shoot for perfect reproduction of an imperfect recording, or you can shoot for something that does a better job of compensating for the imperfections of the recordings (although for this, you have to trust your ears - and being the insecure audiophiles we are, that is a hard one for all of us, myself included).

 

You chose to go one route.  That's fine.   But please dont arbitrarily dismiss those that go the second route as people that prefer colorations - that comes across as condescending, whether or not you intend it to be so, and without any real basis for that condescension.   There is a damn good reason for why we choose that option.   

 

I'll say this - NO solid state system I've ever heard has come close to reproducing the fine timbre and body of a piano, a string bass, a cello or a human voice (actually, I do think solid state amps do a better job with violin solos, but not with violins that are a part of a symphony).   YMMV.

post #44 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkalia View Post
 

 

You are entitled to your opinion, of course and I am not saying for a second that your opinion is wrong.  It is the right opinion - for you.   As I stated in my post above, I am only trying to point out that what you are so definitively claiming as "coloration" is merely an opinion.    And that there are plenty of other opinions which feel that your choice of references is artificial.

 

You may prefer to listen to what was recorded, but that doesnt make it a truism everyone should aspire towards.   Some of us like to listen to a sound that is true to the original.  A tightly- controlled organ doesnt sound anything like the live thing, and personally, I have no desire to have it reproduced that way.     Violins in a concert dont sound as shrill and piercing as they do when reproduced in a system with a flat FR from 20-20k - so why would I want to have my system reproduce them that way?

 

If you prefer an sound that deviates from reality just b/c you have for some reason chosen to use the "recorded signal" as the reference, that's your preference but that doesnt make it a truism.   Heck, from where I sit, that doesnt make any logical sense either.    What you call "hi-fi", I call "artificial" - to me, the true reference is, and should always be, the live sound of an acoustic instrument.       

 

Here's a simple though experiment to illustrate my point (you dont have to agree with me, btw):   Listen to Furtwangler's Bayreuth Beethoven's 9th?    No one in their right mind would argue that that recording is a suitable "reference standards".    It is a mere extension of that logic to realize that even today's recordings - even though they are a lot better than in the 40s or 50s - do not capture the live sound perfectly: I dont think anyone would argue that a system that reproduced the audio signal perfectly would reproduce the concert perfectly.   

 

So now you have 2 options - you can shoot for perfect reproduction of an imperfect recording, or you can shoot for something that does a better job of compensating for the imperfections of the recordings (although for this, you have to trust your ears - and being the insecure audiophiles we are, that is a hard one for all of us, myself included).

 

You chose to go one route.  That's fine.   But please dont arbitrarily dismiss those that go the second route as people that prefer colorations - that comes across as condescending, whether or not you intend it to be so, and without any real basis for that condescension.   There is a damn good reason for why we choose that option.   

 

I'll say this - NO solid state system I've ever heard has come close to reproducing the fine timbre and body of a piano, a string bass, a cello or a human voice (actually, I do think solid state amps do a better job with violin solos, but not with violins that are a part of a symphony).   YMMV.

Coloration is exactly that, a change from what is recorded. I think I've already stated my opinion and whatever another likes that's good for them as well.

post #45 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkalia View Post

Dont you think the positioning of the mikes and subsequent mixing may affect how the sound is reproduced vs how it is perceived live in the concert hall (I've seen never seen any mikes amidst the audience, btw)?    Do you think that recording equipment captures the input sound *perfectly* and that the A/D conversion process is absolutely perfect?    

There is no proven association to show that low THD equals more *lifelike* reproduction - and a very large number of fans of acoustic instruments and vocals feel quite that second-order distortion actually improves the timbre and body of reproduced sound.   Nelson Pass has an article about it on his website as well.   What someone so definitively calls "coloration", others call "realism".

We can argue about this all we want - but in the end, it doesnt matter.  I've owned/listened to a high-end Stereophile-approved solid state rig, I've owned a high-quality tube rig, and I attend a lot of classical concerts live - and while I definitely do not consider myself an audiophile or the snake-oil being peddled as such (silver cables are brighter?   Really?  GMAFB), I know what a violin or a piano or cello sounds like live, and I know which rig reproduces this sound more faithfully.     

For the longest time, I avoided tube amps b/c of arguments like the ones on this thread.    It took me a lot of time to convince myself to trust my ears instead of relying on the "Low THD is good" mantra that everyone seems to buy into by default.   And I am so glad I did. My point is not to convince you or others who have made up their mind one way or the other.   It is to have a contrary point of view recorded here for posterity, so that people who are undecided - like the OP - realize that there are 2 sides to the argument.

To anyone considering tube amps (esp fans of classical music or jazz) - all I have to say is:  go listen to a good 300B or 2A3 amp with a matching pair of speakers.      You may like it, you may not like it - but either way, you'll form it based on your listening preferences and perceptions, not that of some random guy on the internet who may or may not know his ass from his elbow.    You know what they say about opinions being like a-holes (mine included) - so form your own based on your ears, not quoted pseudo-science.

I have made my point and if you disagree, more power to you - as long as you enjoy the music, that's good.    I will, however, in the interest of keeping an open mind and reaching an informed decision, urge you to try a good tube rig, as suggested above.   

I think you are confusing the *creation* of sound with the *reproduction* of sound.

Just because a rock guitar can create an awesome riff when the Mesa Boogie amp is dramatically overdriven does not mean you want your audiophile home stereo amp to be overdriven into distortion.

I agree that the recording of a live event adds it's own effects to the sound - it will not be exactly the same as what the guy sitting in row 20 at the same concert hears. What I don't agree with is that a home playback system can or should try to "correct" for the set-up of the recording equipment and the personal preferences of the recording engineer. For one thing, each concert, recording studio and recording engineer would add unique aspects to the recording. How can your home set-up hope to correct for all possible permutations of that? You *might* be able to start to reproduce a specific concert that you personally attended - but even that would be an impossible task.

Now, with all that said, each person has their own unique transfer function for what they prefer to hear. In it's most gross aspect, this is usually described as preferring "warm" or "bright" or "bassy", etc. Constructing a home set-up that provides the flavor of sound you prefer in the majority of music is a completely valid (and I would say optimal) goal of the audiophile. Your optimal system might or might not be absolutely accurate from a purely engineering perspective - and it might or might not produce the same sound as my optimal system. In addition, I'll also add that I would be very surprised if the designer of an audiophile amp (either SS or tube) said they were trying to do anything other than make as transparent an amp as possible. Of course, there are more detailed design parameters that drive their design in one direction or another, but I really doubt adding distortion or color is one of those parameters. This is completely different from the designer of a mic preamp or guitar amp, who very well could be trying to add a specific type of coloration to the input signal.

So - what am I really saying? I'm saying that it is perfectly OK for an audiophile amp to NOT be perfectly transparent. It doesn't have to be (and in practice really won't be) purely a "wire with gain". However, I'm also saying that the slight coloration should be for the right reasons, and for me the right reason is because I think it sounds good. Justifying your preferred sound with the idea that you are making up for the recording errors just doesn't make sense to me.

As usual, all of this is IMHO. I actually think we are not that far apart in our thinking, and most of the differences are semantics. beerchug.gif
Edited by billybob_jcv - 1/19/14 at 11:00am
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