Hifiman he-400i Impressions and Discussion
Feb 20, 2017 at 9:59 PM Post #11,731 of 14,386
 
Agreed.
 
I'm still running my E10K as a DAC but debating on upgrading to a Modi Uber. Still unsure if the difference would be worth it... what do you think?

Can't help you since I haven't used a E10K, I have a Modi2uber and its good, for 1/4 the price of my Bimby its a great deal and depending the individual some like the akm4490(modi2uber) better than the ad5547 (Bimby) chip.  I still like the pcm1704 or pcm1795 chips but these are getting harder to find these days due to cost and I think the 1704 has been discontinued.
 
Feb 21, 2017 at 6:10 PM Post #11,733 of 14,386
HE400i sounds brighter, faster, more analytical, more strident, more engaging, HD650 sounds warmer, slower, smoother, more resolving, more boring, on a portable device or unoptimized low/mid end system. (HE400i is easier to cause fatigue than HD650. However, HD650 is more boring for short listening session.)

My listening experience matched well with measurements, as below:

HD650


HE400i


*The flatter the top-side curve is, the more neutral the headphone sounds. The fewer peaks there are and the lesser height those peaks are, the smoother that headphone sounds.

 
---
To my ear, HE400i is quite problematic for some type of music, especially those poorly recorded pops. Because it has a very sharp peak around 7kHz. And bare in mind that this measurement is for the old design HE400i. Moreover, the new updated design HE400i sounds even brighter than the old one. Which is to say, the peak around 7kHz is even sharper on the current version HE400i...
So why that peak you may wonder? Well, peak around 7kHz makes a headphone sounds more airy, and tremble becomes sweeter and more impressive for short daily listening session. Which is to say, you are more likely to be impressed right after you listening to HE400i, and you will like listening to it for maybe around 30mins to 1hr. But after that... It does cause more listening fatigue much quicker. So for longer listening session (>2hrs), HE400i can sound too fatiguing.
---
On the other hand, HD650 sounds too boring and not exciting on some unoptimized low end to mid end system --- especially for short listening session. However, HD650 does sound great on high end system. Even for average unoptimized low/mid system, HD650 will sound smooth (not fatiguing at all) after even 3-5 hrs of listening.
---
 
Personally, I would recommend HD600 as a better headphone than HD650 or HE400i, if you want to get both smooth and exciting sound. To my ear, HD600 is easier to be pushed than HD650 (which means, you don't need to spend as much on a HD600 on your system).

HD600's flatness of curve matched well with my own listening experience: It's neither boring, nor fatiguing. It's both engaging and easy listening.

HD600


---

I have done critical listening on all the four headphones HE400i, HE400s, HD650, HD600...

To my ear,

1) HE400s sounds generally best on portable or average low / mid end system.

2) HD600 sounds best on well set low / mid end system.

3) HD650 sounds equally well as HD600 on high end system. It's becoming a personal taste preference between 650 and 600: HD650 sounds warmer and HD600 sounds less warmer --- But HD650 is not boring at all on high end system.

4) HE400i sounds best for some specific type of music, including female vocal and violins, etc..., on low end system. But it cannot be pushed as well as HE400s on portable devices (maybe because HE400i has larger impedance than HE400s).

5) HD650/HD600 doesn't sound as well as HE400s/400i on portable devices or unoptimized low/mid end system. But they do sound much better on well set low / mid end system, or a high end system.
 

 
 
  This is my EQ settings for the HE400i.
 

 
Btw, I've quickly tried the above EQ setting, and I was about to say that it looks like it would do a great job to counter the 'ringing' at 4k and 12k of the measured he400i, but looking at the EQ settings, it's actually misses both 2.5k vs 4k & 8k vs 12k...!  Is there some reason why the above EQ would work despite seeming to miss the mark given the measurements? Should all 400i measure all very similar or could there be such difference between samples?
 
And also, anybody else care to comment on the above EQ curve?  I had a bit of a trouble yesterday trying to decide if it sounded better with it on or off...  The above EQ though does seem to sound super smooth (in terms of removing sound forwardness / harshness)...  Maybe even a bit too much so, as the headphones seemed to then lack a bit of dynamism/excitement, just seemed less detailed/present, especially female vocals seemed to be somewhat a bit clearer temporal-wise (less harshness 'residueness'?) but seemed to sound a bit more off in the tonality... (NOTE: This isn't a final verdict at all, just a though after 1-2m of listening to part of one track....)
 
confused_face.gif
     I guess I should try to move the 2 dips a few khz to make them match the 'ringing' in the CSD...  That's basically what we should aim for trying to 'fix' the 400i no?  According to graph, 6dB should be enough, which might why the dips were so big on the EQ setting, removing that much hits the 'right' frequencies via brute force? (kinda like using a shotgun not quite hitting the mark vs scalpel directly on target...)  Looks like even adding a 3rd dip at 6k could also help!
 
Feb 21, 2017 at 8:28 PM Post #11,735 of 14,386
  I power mine on low gain with ease ... ?

For me the Mojo is pefect with HE400i ,, but they scale nicely with the HP-A8 , more meat on the bone :)
 
Feb 21, 2017 at 8:56 PM Post #11,736 of 14,386
 
I have a Magni2, not sure how much more power I would ever need.
 
Has anyone upgraded the cable on their 400i? Will it make much of a difference compared to the stock one?

I don't like the length of the stock cable so i bought a 2.5m HD700 cable from ebay: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Audio-upgrade-Cable-For-Sennheiser-HD700-HD-700-SHURE-SRH1840-SRH1540-SRH1440-/151724300069?var=&hash=item2353791725:m:msB9y_2KcVIg0ClpqdT3rHQ
 
Feb 21, 2017 at 9:31 PM Post #11,737 of 14,386
 
I have a Magni2, not sure how much more power I would ever need.
 
Has anyone upgraded the cable on their 400i? Will it make much of a difference compared to the stock one?

I have the new AudioQuest NightHawk Cable w/ Mic. that I have used with the 400i (DragonFly Red w/ Vali 2).  I cannot hear a difference.  YMMV.
 
Feb 22, 2017 at 12:48 AM Post #11,738 of 14,386
   
 
 
Btw, I've quickly tried the above EQ setting, and I was about to say that it looks like it would do a great job to counter the 'ringing' at 4k and 12k of the measured he400i, but looking at the EQ settings, it's actually misses both 2.5k vs 4k & 8k vs 12k...!  Is there some reason why the above EQ would work despite seeming to miss the mark given the measurements? Should all 400i measure all very similar or could there be such difference between samples?
 
And also, anybody else care to comment on the above EQ curve?  I had a bit of a trouble yesterday trying to decide if it sounded better with it on or off...  The above EQ though does seem to sound super smooth (in terms of removing sound forwardness / harshness)...  Maybe even a bit too much so, as the headphones seemed to then lack a bit of dynamism/excitement, just seemed less detailed/present, especially female vocals seemed to be somewhat a bit clearer temporal-wise (less harshness 'residueness'?) but seemed to sound a bit more off in the tonality... (NOTE: This isn't a final verdict at all, just a though after 1-2m of listening to part of one track....)
 
confused_face.gif
     I guess I should try to move the 2 dips a few khz to make them match the 'ringing' in the CSD...  That's basically what we should aim for trying to 'fix' the 400i no?  According to graph, 6dB should be enough, which might why the dips were so big on the EQ setting, removing that much hits the 'right' frequencies via brute force? (kinda like using a shotgun not quite hitting the mark vs scalpel directly on target...)  Looks like even adding a 3rd dip at 6k could also help!

 
I hope I don't sound too rude, but that EQ is pretty awful, but if it floats your boat, and you're happy, why not.
The need to cut 8dB at some point of the curve seems rather extreme, I'd go for a different set of cans altogether at that point.
 
Feb 22, 2017 at 2:46 PM Post #11,741 of 14,386
   
 
 
Btw, I've quickly tried the above EQ setting, and I was about to say that it looks like it would do a great job to counter the 'ringing' at 4k and 12k of the measured he400i, but looking at the EQ settings, it's actually misses both 2.5k vs 4k & 8k vs 12k...!  Is there some reason why the above EQ would work despite seeming to miss the mark given the measurements? Should all 400i measure all very similar or could there be such difference between samples?
 
And also, anybody else care to comment on the above EQ curve?  I had a bit of a trouble yesterday trying to decide if it sounded better with it on or off...  The above EQ though does seem to sound super smooth (in terms of removing sound forwardness / harshness)...  Maybe even a bit too much so, as the headphones seemed to then lack a bit of dynamism/excitement, just seemed less detailed/present, especially female vocals seemed to be somewhat a bit clearer temporal-wise (less harshness 'residueness'?) but seemed to sound a bit more off in the tonality... (NOTE: This isn't a final verdict at all, just a though after 1-2m of listening to part of one track....)
 
confused_face.gif
     I guess I should try to move the 2 dips a few khz to make them match the 'ringing' in the CSD...  That's basically what we should aim for trying to 'fix' the 400i no?  According to graph, 6dB should be enough, which might why the dips were so big on the EQ setting, removing that much hits the 'right' frequencies via brute force? (kinda like using a shotgun not quite hitting the mark vs scalpel directly on target...)  Looks like even adding a 3rd dip at 6k could also help!

 
I use EQ, but my bumps are much more subtle.  I lower 4k-12k by a couple dBs, and bump 20-80 by a couple dBs.  Nothing more than +/- 3 dBs and I roll into and out of that peak EQ point.
 
Feb 22, 2017 at 7:01 PM Post #11,742 of 14,386
I use Elemental Watson's tube adjustment knob to adjust EQ below 3dB, and rolling new tubes for anything above 3dB.

Since it's all anolog, everything sounds natural and smooth --- without those digital EQ harshness / stridency / sacrifice of image positioning / narrowed soundstage / ill-timed transients / digital jitter feel side-effects.
 
Feb 22, 2017 at 11:13 PM Post #11,744 of 14,386
 
That's a bit disappointing :frowning2:
 
I kind of wish these cans had more potential (I like modding things, cars especially), I think that's why the T50's are so popular.

If you want to have fun modding then go with a Grado clone made with various 3rd party drivers.  Different wood types and shapes of cups, dynamat, felt, sorbothane and ear pads all make a difference in how you can tune them to your liking.  I've posted a few pictures some of my builds in this thread or you can go to my profile to see more.
 
Feb 23, 2017 at 12:14 AM Post #11,745 of 14,386
   
I hope I don't sound too rude, but that EQ is pretty awful, but if it floats your boat, and you're happy, why not.
The need to cut 8dB at some point of the curve seems rather extreme, I'd go for a different set of cans altogether at that point.


Additionally @GirgleMirt, use an analysis panel to reflect the actual changes via EQ to confirm/estimate what's happening, always use a (negative) pre-amp option to avoid clipping if you're boosting something (or cut everything besides the part you want to boost the most).
 
For any newcomers to EQ with 400i, I'd suggest combating the 6-9k peak a bit (especially if it troubles you, otherwise aiming for a wee bit more neutral and linear FR curve, but personally: not too much to avoid changing the addicting characteristics of 400i), along with combating the slight roll-off of the sub-bass if it exists in your 'phones.
Any other EQ options just to suit your personal tastes, if absolutely required, and/or you want to fiddle something besides the obvious.
 

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