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Hifiman HE-400i and HE-560: From CES to Pre-Launch - Page 45

post #661 of 3090

I hope the pads and headband become available for sale before March.

post #662 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post
  Concerning sound stage... (Click to show)

Talking about big sound stage annoys my inner audiophile as it is such a diffuse term. There are so many factors, it ain't that simple. A bigger sound stage isn't necessarily better for me. I'd rather have proportionality in many cases. Makes for a more realistic sound stage compared to something like an extremely wide sound stage with no depth to speak of. Not good. 

And speaking about big sound stage is also misleading, as the perception of sound stage partially rely on other technicalities like imaging, frequency response, transients, detail extraction, etc..

 

Example: A lot of high end headphones (like HE-500) doesn't necessarily have a bigger sound stage than some lower end headphones. But they still sound 'bigger' and gives more 'scale'... Like HE-500 vs. ksc75 for example.

 

Another example: HE-500 sound stage is said to be fairly shallow (not that much depth). I am quite positive some of the reason behind people saying that is because vocals and instruments in the front of the listener sounds a little diffused and spread out. Yet those terms are what we mostly refer to as terms describing imaging...

 

Even the word sound stage isn't too strongly defined and people here use it in various ways.. As one might refer to the actual perceived size of the stage (is x inches wide, x inches deep, etc.), while others might refer to how big they perceive the stage of a live recoridng (front row, like being in a concert hall, like having x artist sitting on my lap singing to me, blah blah, etc. etc.).

Some don't even agree in what height, depth and width is, have seen that several times before!

We need a proper definition of sound stage, imaging, etc IMO. I like the view Darth Nut takes in his sr-007 review for example. That actually describes the staging ability in a way that can't be misunderstood.

//end rant

 

Still looking forward to the new hifimans. Another 'impression' to add to the list is the guys from Sieveking claiming both the HE400i and 560 are nice upgrades to the 400 and 500 in sound quality. That is at least what I have heard..

This pretty much sums up what I've been trying to say about soundstage/imaging and what I value highly in a headphone personally.  It's been my biggest criticism of planars in general that I've owned or heard.  Even the HE-6, which is sufficiently airy to have a width that seems to extend beyond the cups when properly powered, has a very limited depth compared to dynamics.  I'm hoping perhaps the single ended magnet design improves the sense of depth and imaging in the HE-560.

post #663 of 3090

The first part was referring to earlier HFM QC issues.. now that there will be wood cups, hence reference to Audeze. :)

post #664 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyVee View Post

The first part was referring to earlier HFM QC issues.. now that there will be wood cups, hence reference to Audeze. smily_headphones1.gif
the he-5 HAD wood cups tongue.gif
post #665 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWahl View Post
 

This pretty much sums up what I've been trying to say about soundstage/imaging and what I value highly in a headphone personally.  It's been my biggest criticism of planars in general that I've owned or heard.  Even the HE-6, which is sufficiently airy to have a width that seems to extend beyond the cups when properly powered, has a very limited depth compared to dynamics.  I'm hoping perhaps the single ended magnet design improves the sense of depth and imaging in the HE-560.

 

Very limited depth compared to what? The HD-800? Yeah right, but all headphone fall short of it in that department.

The TH-600 or AKG Q/K-701 have worse depth than the HE-5LE or HE-6.

post #666 of 3090

I think planars in general excel in the depth department-- far more than your average dynamic.  It's the width where I find them a little lacking.  Their metaphorical soundstage is more of a circle than dynamics, that are more like elongated ovals.  Only the HD800 has been able to place things seemingly forward.

post #667 of 3090

I stand corrected.  Here's hoping for a QC free launch.  I'm looking forward to what both the HE400i and HE560 have to offer.  Looking for something to compliment (or be different from) my HD800.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultramus View Post


the he-5 HAD wood cups tongue.gif
post #668 of 3090

I'm looking forward to what angled pads will do to depth. Maybe this helps in the depth dept...we shall see. Denon angled pads should be in any day (which happen to slip right over the plastic Hifiman rings).

post #669 of 3090

Angled velours would be very nice and I'm interested!

post #670 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsktsk View Post
 

Angled velours would be very nice and I'm interested!


I've emailed Hifiman and got the response that the pads have not been mass-produced yet. I take it as soon as these hit the market it's open game for parts. Headband and pads please! Wonder if they'll sell the cups... but then again you can get mango tree cups now if you do a search (not from HF).

post #671 of 3090

Let's hope if they do sell them that they won't cost too much.

post #672 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemmaster View Post
 

 

Very limited depth compared to what? The HD-800? Yeah right, but all headphone fall short of it in that department.

The TH-600 or AKG Q/K-701 have worse depth than the HE-5LE or HE-6.

 

Strangely enough, my K712 is the first headphone I've been able to get what I would consider a sense of depth with, which I value more than sheer width.  However, this was only after adding a battery supply to my current Modi DAC which noticeably reduced the noise floor, clearing out some kind of digital noise ground loop I had going on.  I suspect the noise floor plays a part in my perception of depth.  

 

On that note, I had a rather deep ear wax impaction removed about a month ago, and am able to hear high freqs a little better now.  This would probably explain my several db hearing loss at 6k (the highest they test) on my last audio test.  Perhaps the HD800 would be excruciating to me now :wink_face:  

 

Seriously though, Head-Fi'ers should never use Q-tips to clean ears and get your ears checked every once in a while.  I had no idea it was like that.  That being said please take my below comments with a grain of salt and in the proper context.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post
 

I think planars in general excel in the depth department-- far more than your average dynamic.  It's the width where I find them a little lacking.  Their metaphorical soundstage is more of a circle than dynamics, that are more like elongated ovals.  Only the HD800 has been able to place things seemingly forward.

 

Perhaps it's just the way I'm describing what I'm perceiving.  Most of us already know that headphones without crossfeed will make a recording sound too panned out to the side in comparison with speakers (ignoring binaural recordings).  Some recordings exaggerate this effect more than others but I find it to be more exaggrated with planars IMO.  

 

My first planar, was the R1 LCD-2 which was actually the high end 'phone I owned the longest.  I was very pleased with the sound until I got bored one day and threw on my old Sennheiser HD-590.  Terrible headphones in comparison, but after adjusting to the Audeze sound the sense of air and soundstage seemed astounding, despite it's other flaws.  

 

That got me to sell my LCD-2 and buy a T1.  I never really had any serious problems with the T1 but sold it out of pure curiosity to buy an HE-6.  The HE-6 blew me away with it's extreme detail and sense of transient speed and impact.  Only nitpick as I said was the extreme sense of panning.  I believe some people describe this as a "wall of sound" effect and I think It's related to the large drivers being close to the ears.  The AD2000X had a very similar presentation to the planars, with large drivers close to the ears.  I only ended up selling it because I had to scrap my whole setup at the time for money.  

 

When I got back into the hobby I built up again from K702 65th to AD2000X to HD800, the last being my favorite overall, though again I had to sell it for money and I'm currently making due with a K712, which is great for the money but I plan to upgrade again soon.

 

Sorry for the long winded OT Head-FI life story.  I just wanted to put my comments into proper context.  Hopefully when I get to hear the HE-560 I will better appreciate the planar imaging properties with my newly clean and clear ear canals.  :) 

post #673 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWahl View Post

Strangely enough, my K712 is the first headphone I've been able to get what I would consider a sense of depth with, which I value more than sheer width.  However, this was only after adding a battery supply to my current Modi DAC which noticeably reduced the noise floor, clearing out some kind of digital noise ground loop I had going on.  I suspect the noise floor plays a part in my perception of depth.  

On that note, I had a rather deep ear wax impaction removed about a month ago, and am able to hear high freqs a little better now.  This would probably explain my several db hearing loss at 6k (the highest they test) on my last audio test.  Perhaps the HD800 would be excruciating to me now wink_face.gif   

Seriously though, Head-Fi'ers should never use Q-tips to clean ears and get your ears checked every once in a while.  I had no idea it was like that.  That being said please take my below comments with a grain of salt and in the proper context.


Perhaps it's just the way I'm describing what I'm perceiving.  Most of us already know that headphones without crossfeed will make a recording sound too panned out to the side in comparison with speakers (ignoring binaural recordings).  Some recordings exaggerate this effect more than others but I find it to be more exaggrated with planars IMO.  

My first planar, was the R1 LCD-2 which was actually the high end 'phone I owned the longest.  I was very pleased with the sound until I got bored one day and threw on my old Sennheiser HD-590.  Terrible headphones in comparison, but after adjusting to the Audeze sound the sense of air and soundstage seemed astounding, despite it's other flaws.  

That got me to sell my LCD-2 and buy a T1.  I never really had any serious problems with the T1 but sold it out of pure curiosity to buy an HE-6.  The HE-6 blew me away with it's extreme detail and sense of transient speed and impact.  Only nitpick as I said was the extreme sense of panning.  I believe some people describe this as a "wall of sound" effect and I think It's related to the large drivers being close to the ears.  The AD2000X had a very similar presentation to the planars, with large drivers close to the ears.  I only ended up selling it because I had to scrap my whole setup at the time for money.  

When I got back into the hobby I built up again from K702 65th to AD2000X to HD800, the last being my favorite overall, though again I had to sell it for money and I'm currently making due with a K712, which is great for the money but I plan to upgrade again soon.

Sorry for the long winded OT Head-FI life story.  I just wanted to put my comments into proper context.  Hopefully when I get to hear the HE-560 I will better appreciate the planar imaging properties with my newly clean and clear ear canals.  smily_headphones1.gif  
How much to get your ears clean? I use hydrogen peroxide once or twice a month the break down the wax.
post #674 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundsgoodtome View Post

Is it safe to say that the HE560 takes over as new flagship then? Does that explain the 6 in the 560 as opposed to 550 or 600?

No this is not true. The 560 is not a "proper" flagship and shouldn't be looked at as such.
I am sure Fang will tell us more when he's ready.
post #675 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

I think planars in general excel in the depth department-- far more than your average dynamic.  It's the width where I find them a little lacking.  Their metaphorical soundstage is more of a circle than dynamics, that are more like elongated ovals.  Only the HD800 has been able to place things seemingly forward.

This. I think people have depth confused with width, since no dynamic that I've heard has surpassed ANY planarmagnetic that I've owned/tested extensively.

Planars are the kings of depth (as in projecting in front and behind), and I'm pretty sensitive to soundstage differences. Their width is what pales in comparison to dynamics. They have a sort of wall that keeps them from extending further out to the sides, most noticeable on the LCD2.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 1/14/14 at 10:11pm
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