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Hifiman HE-400i and HE-560: From CES to Pre-Launch - Page 170

post #2536 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post
 

 

The costs went into tuning the single-sided magnet to having more sensitivity than the dual magnet...  That's not the easiest thing to do.  HiFiMan could have easily went with a dual-magnet design to get this (the easier route out), but wanted to lighten the headphones as well.  A lot of R&D went into this...  Fang is probably still tuning and adding the final touches as we speak...  The costs tend not to come from materials, but the R&D that goes into getting the sound just right with that setup and hitting the goals that wouldn't seem possible.  I don't think I know of any planar that could be driven on an iPhone alone (no amp) before HiFiMan did it, let a lone a single-magnet model... 

 

You're not just paying for the materials that makeup the headphone, you're paying for the skill and work that went into it.  That includes the R&D, and everything else. 

Exactly why I think it won't be as much as an improvement in sound as people think it might be.

post #2537 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amleth View Post
 


LOL all you want, it's easy to miss actual facts in the 170 pages of endless speculation. I recall plenty of posts asking about this with no response, but didn't see the one where it finally got nailed down.

 

I hope they're much deeper magnets at least, if they're going to be single-sided. Although seeing as they should be cheaper to make as a result, I don't know how they justify selling the 560 for almost double the 500, with a more complicated design. Where does the cost go? Does it have a gold coil like the HE-6 instead of aluminium like the 500? The wood cups can't cost all that much, especially manufactured in bulk...

...R&D lol. Research and development. That is almost always the bulk of the cost for high tech products.

post #2538 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimzerz View Post
 

Exactly why I think it won't be as much as an improvement in sound as people think it might be.

 

Well, when you start getting more and more expensive, the actual quality will improve, but as price goes up, the amount of improvement gets smaller.  It's the diminishing returns thing ;)  We might see a change in sound, maybe even a slight improvement...  I'm sure Jerg will be happy to tell us when he starts comparing cans XD 

post #2539 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post
 

 

Well, when you start getting more and more expensive, the actual quality will improve, but as price goes up, the amount of improvement gets smaller.  It's the diminishing returns thing ;)  We might see a change in sound, maybe even a slight improvement...  I'm sure Jerg will be happy to tell us when he starts comparing cans XD 

Yeah, that's what I mean. It might be an improvement, but I think subjectivity will take over whether or not someone will choose one over the other, as the technicalities will most likely only be slightly better.

post #2540 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimzerz View Post
 

Yeah, that's what I mean. It might be an improvement, but I think subjectivity will take over whether or not someone will choose one over the other, as the technicalities will most likely only be slightly better.

 

Shhh...  New toy effect XD  We'll just have to wait and see :) 

post #2541 of 3090
We pay for the sound. I consider Hifiman a great value in this regard, especially at the discounted prices. I wonder how much the plastic HD600 costs to manufacture. Can't be more than 20% of its MSRP.
post #2542 of 3090

I'm hoping these will sound decent out of my M&M stack as I wont have money until the end of the year at least to buy a new amp :(

 

Will have to wait and see whats said before taking the plunge.

post #2543 of 3090

The Magni at least has enough power (1.2W @ 32Ohm) to drive them!

I tried the HE-400 with the HP-Out of my Asus Xonar E1 (0.65W @32Ohm) and was stunned, got very good results.

Magni schould be good :)

 

Edit: Corrected Asus power output


Edited by Ratheriian - 3/15/14 at 3:04am
post #2544 of 3090

I'm hoping they include velour and pleather pads with the 2 new models.

post #2545 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post
 

 

The costs went into tuning the single-sided magnet to having more sensitivity than the dual magnet...  That's not the easiest thing to do.  HiFiMan could have easily went with a dual-magnet design to get this (the easier route out), but wanted to lighten the headphones as well.  A lot of R&D went into this...  Fang is probably still tuning and adding the final touches as we speak...  The costs tend not to come from materials, but the R&D that goes into getting the sound just right with that setup and hitting the goals that wouldn't seem possible.  I don't think I know of any planar that could be driven on an iPhone alone (no amp) before HiFiMan did it, let a lone a single-magnet model... 

 

You're not just paying for the materials that makeup the headphone, you're paying for the skill and work that went into it.  That includes the R&D, and everything else. 

 

Are you implying these new models are efficient enough to be driven out of IPhones and stuff? Not that I am going to be driving them out of iPods, but if they actually can be driven well from iPods, then there is no reason they wouldn't work out of my DM Source.

 

Someone wanna drop some official confirmed specs on their impedance and sensitivity?

post #2546 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post
 

 

Are you implying these new models are efficient enough to be driven out of IPhones and stuff? Not that I am going to be driving them out of iPods, but if they actually can be driven well from iPods, then there is no reason they wouldn't work out of my DM Source.

 

Someone wanna drop some official confirmed specs on their impedance and sensitivity?


Check the OP, quotes an official post in this thread about those specs.

post #2547 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeskR View Post
 


Check the OP, quotes an official post in this thread about those specs.

Yeah I checked out those stats. The stats there are worded as "about 90 db or around so and so weight." That information was posted a while ago though and I remember some of the insiders saying that this might change as things get tuned. Now at March, I expect that they should have nailed out most of their details and expectations, so maybe updated specs as well?

post #2548 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post
 

Yeah I checked out those stats. The stats there are worded as "about 90 db or around so and so weight." That information was posted a while ago though and I remember some of the insiders saying that this might change as things get tuned. Now at March, I expect that they should have nailed out most of their details and expectations, so maybe updated specs as well?


Yeah that's true, I didn't look to hard at them and didn't see that they were so imprecise.

post #2549 of 3090

Went back and looked at the specs of HE-500 and HE-400 on head-direct. HE-500 is rated at 89 db and HE-400 at 92.5 db. So if the new HE-400i is at 94ish db, that's definitely more appreciable. 

 

The HE-560 at 90 db is only one db better than HE-500...but then again, I didn't think HE-500 were actually there, especially when I had the early models.

post #2550 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post

Are you implying these new models are efficient enough to be driven out of IPhones and stuff? Not that I am going to be driving them out of iPods, but if they actually can be driven well from iPods, then there is no reason they wouldn't work out of my DM Source.

Someone wanna drop some official confirmed specs on their impedance and sensitivity?

I was referring more to the HE-400 and HE-400i. Unless you're a quiet listener, you might be able to get away with the 560. I've got a portable amp for that though XD. iPod output is about 1.11v... I'm not 100% sure how it's measured though, but. Innerfidelity measured the HE500 sensitivity to be 90 dB at .310 v RMS which is about .877 v peak to peak... I'm not quite sure, but I think that means the iPod should be able to drive it to around 100 dB, maybe more. I know people listen louder than that, but for all intents and purposes, there are portable headphones that do worse (though they volume limit XD). So it might be able to drive it to be loud enough, would sound much better using an amp though tongue.gif

That said though, HiFiMan did design the HE-500 to be able to be driven with a portable amplifier; the HE-400i is the one that's designed to run direct off of a portable device. Again, things will always improve when you scale up.
Edited by tinyman392 - 3/15/14 at 5:55am
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