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Hifiman HE-400i and HE-560: From CES to Pre-Launch - Page 153

post #2281 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogmatrix View Post
 

I believe Dr Fang recommended 1 Watt, over time this morphed into the current required 1-2 Watts myth

1 Watt was never really a requirement only recommended

In my experience the 500 is great out of anything with more than 300Mw

 

And I assure you it sounds much better out of the SA-31, which happens to be 10Wpc :ph34r:.

 

M-Stage vs. SA-31 is a no contest with the HE-500 (and even less so with the HE-4, but this has been acknowledge already).

post #2282 of 3090

10.5 Watts at 38ohms Emotiva is another proven winner.

 

As to why these amps sound great, that's currently kind of a mystery. I think the efficiency numbers are measured at 1k hertz with a single burst shot, and does not represent the efficiency from 20 hertz to 20k hertz with lots of dynamic swings and multiple instruments/voices, etc, etc. For example, not sure what efficiency looks like at sub-bass of 50 hertz?

 

It's nice to have lots of headroom, the amp performs most linear/optimal when it's under minimal stress instead of straining close to max capability. Same reason people buy 450 horsepower cars, it's not needed to reach 65 mph or any other street legal purposes, but it's nice to have.

post #2283 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post
 

10.5 Watts at 38ohms Emotiva is another proven winner.

 

As to why these amps sound great, that's currently kind of a mystery. I think the efficiency numbers are measured at 1k hertz with a single burst shot, and does not represent the efficiency from 20 hertz to 20k hertz with lots of dynamic swings and multiple instruments/voices, etc, etc. For example, not sure what efficiency looks like at sub-bass of 50 hertz?

 

It's nice to have lots of headroom, the amp performs most linear/optimal when it's under minimal stress instead of straining close to max capability. Same reason people buy 450 horsepower cars, it's not needed to reach 65 mph or any other street legal purposes, but it's nice to have.

 

Agree with the headroom comments.

 

In relation to changes in sensitivity, I thought this was where the fixed load offered by planar was meant to be an advantage - they (HE-500s in this case) are 38 ohms at any frequency so it should matter if it's 1kHz or 22Hz - the difficulty to drive shouldn't change (I think?)

 

You might be onto something though about the dynamic swings required for the complex waves and impulses created by various instruments and sounds interacting. I wonder if this presents a different challenge in terms of rapid changes in direction for the diaphragm, etc.

 

As for the SA-31 sounding better than the M-Stage (from Clemmaster's post) and the Emotivas being widely recommended. Is this really about the power or is it more about the quality of the amps I wonder? My Mainline sounds better than my Matrix Quattro, but it's because of the quality of the amp, not the act that it has more power.

 

(PS thanks to everyone for engaging in interesting and productive discussion of this question - I'm not attempting to create controversy or conflict and love that we're able to explore this potentially subjective topic without any heat)

post #2284 of 3090

Just anecdotally, while the HE-500s sound OK from my JDS Labs C5, there's no comparison to my Lyr.

 

Interesting topic.  Hope to test the above with the HE-560s :D

post #2285 of 3090

Exactly. I'm guessing another case of higher overall amp quality rather than a reflection of the power output.

 

Perhaps someone can share an example of a lower quality, higher powered amp out-performing a higher quality, lower powered amp?

post #2286 of 3090

IMO, as a previous long time owner / fanboy of the Lyr:

 

The Lyr is awesome for delivering power but is pretty "sucky" when it comes to things like detail retrieval, seperation, transparency, clarity. Upgrading the tubes does help, (a lot), but in the end the details sound smeared to me and a lot of micro-detail is lost overall. Schiit will probably overhaul the thing with the Lyr 2 and make it sound better like the Vali.

 

So in terms of technicality I bet it's not any better than the the C5. The C5, built from op-amp topology will offer a more cleaner, linear, and better measuring sound. The discrete Schiit design will offer more a grainy/organic feel though. I think the Asgard 2 is probably a much better amp overall if you don't need anything more than 1 Watt, and will probably be the better amp for the HE-400i, if not the 560 too.

 

The Emotiva isn't a technical giant either. I can't think of any other reason why it should sound so awesome with the HE-500 and LCD-2 other than power. I might be missing something, but it's likely that big ass torodial transformer acting as a huge well for limitless current on tap, available for any kind for load/swings might help. (yes I realize transformers just pass current and not store them :rolleyes:)

 

As for the fixed load for planars. Yeah I think you might be right about that.

 

But no point in arguing guys. If you're curious, try out some powerful amps (plenty available now). It's not like 3 years ago when the Lyr was pretty much the only option, there are plenty of cheap 2W to 4W amps now, and speaker amps too.

 

I seriously hate this issue because I can't find a satisfying explanation, just guesses here and there.


Edited by M-13 - 3/5/14 at 7:45pm
post #2287 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

IMO, as a previous long time owner / fanboy of the Lyr:

The Lyr is awesome for delivering power but is pretty "sucky" when it comes to things like detail retrieval, seperation, transparency, clarity. Upgrading the tubes does help, (a lot), but in the end the details sound smeared to me and a lot of micro-detail is lost overall. Schiit will probably overhaul the thing with the Lyr 2 and make it sound better like the Vali.

So in terms of technicality I bet it's not any better than the the C5. The C5, built from op-amp topology will offer a more cleaner, linear, and better measuring sound. The discrete Schiit design will offer more a grainy/organic feel though. I think the Asgard 2 is probably a much better amp overall if you don't need anything more than 1 Watt, and will probably be the better amp for the HE-400i, if not the 560 too.

The Emotiva isn't a technical giant either. I can't think of any other reason why it should sound so awesome with the HE-500 and LCD-2 other than power. I might be missing something, but it's likely that big ass torodial transformer acting as a huge well for limitless current on tap, available for any kind for load/swings might help. (yes I realize transformers just pass current and not store them rolleyes.gif )

As for the fixed load for planars. Yeah I think you might be right about that.

But no point in arguing guys. If you're curious, try out some powerful amps (plenty available now). It's not like 3 years ago when the Lyr was pretty much the only option, there are plenty of cheap 2W to 4W amps now, and speaker amps too.

I seriously hate this issue because I can't find a satisfying explanation, just guesses here and there.
Curious to know, when paired with the HE500, which amp do you prefer over the Lyr? This combo is my current rig, but am interested in potentially upgrading the Lyr. Thanks for any insights. popcorn.gif
Edited by Zuckfun - 3/5/14 at 8:32pm
post #2288 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuckfun View Post


Curious to know, when paired with the HE500, which amp do you prefer over the Lyr? This combo is my current rig, but am interested in potentially upgrading the Lyr. Thanks for any insights. popcorn.gif

Emotiva.

 

I was using 60s Telefunken tubes for the Lyr and found the Emotiva to be better.

post #2289 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

Emotiva.

I was using 60s Telefunken tubes for the Lyr and found the Emotiva to be better.
Thanks- I'll add it to the list of candidates smily_headphones1.gif
post #2290 of 3090
FWIW, with HE-500 and my Lyr sold off also, am considering an Ember. Or maybe just the long wait until my Pulse X fe arrives. Whenever that may be.
post #2291 of 3090
popcorn.gif should be afternoon in eastern China now.
post #2292 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by jexby View Post

FWIW, with HE-500 and my Lyr sold off also, am considering an Ember. Or maybe just the long wait until my Pulse X fe arrives. Whenever that may be.

 

Yeah I'm pretty much set on getting the Ember for the HE-560. I thought about the Emotiva but that thing looks wayyy too massive to fit on my desk. I have a feeling you're going to be waiting a very long time for that Pulse X, I think Gavin and the others have too much on their plate to be able to meet their original schedule.

post #2293 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by akarise View Post
 

 

Yeah I'm pretty much set on getting the Ember for the HE-560. I thought about the Emotiva but that thing looks wayyy too massive to fit on my desk. I have a feeling you're going to be waiting a very long time for that Pulse X, I think Gavin and the others have too much on their plate to be able to meet their original schedule.


It isn't nearly as big as I thought it would be. No, that is not what she said.

post #2294 of 3090
My Ember is much better than my (previous) Lyr w/ the HE-500. YMMV. Very curious how the 560 will sound with it...
post #2295 of 3090

My hope is that the new gen from HFM get along better with OTL amps .

My 332s really sucks with the 500 and I just bought another OTL although the new one is so pretty it wouldn't matter if it didn't work at all

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