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Hifiman HE-400i and HE-560: From CES to Pre-Launch - Page 87

post #1291 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

Upper midrange translates to the energy and "bite" / "attack" in music, and I too appreciate it (for instance, I really love listening to rock with my modded KSC75s, which have dead-neutral midrange from 500 - 4000 Hz, unlike most other headphones I've owned or heard).

 

HE500s' upper midrange is recessed by a couple of dBs, which gives it a relaxed, unoffensive sound signature; it isn't however heavily recessed, so no detail is missing per-say, just that the presentation is different.


Agreed. LCD-2 was significantly worse in this regard.

post #1292 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

Upper midrange translates to the energy and "bite" / "attack" in music, and I too appreciate it (for instance, I really love listening to rock with my modded KSC75s, which have dead-neutral midrange from 500 - 4000 Hz, unlike most other headphones I've owned or heard).

HE500s' upper midrange is recessed by a couple of dBs, which gives it a relaxed, unoffensive sound signature; it isn't however heavily recessed, so no detail is missing per-say, just that the presentation is different.
Suppose it's this dip that allows me to the turn the volume up with the 500's and the signature is still very pleasant. Kind of have to watch it in terms of ear protection, but they sure are enjoyable to listen to- loud or at any volume really.
post #1293 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuckfun View Post


Suppose it's this dip that allows me to the turn the volume up with the 500's and the signature is still very pleasant. Kind of have to watch it in terms of ear protection, but they sure are enjoyable to listen to- loud or at any volume really.

Oh for sure, you can't crank up the volume with cans that have prominent upper mids, too much forwardness/aggressiveness and it fatigues the ears right out.

post #1294 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

Oh for sure, you can't crank up the volume with cans that have prominent upper mids, too much forwardness/aggressiveness and it fatigues the ears right out.


+1

post #1295 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

Upper midrange translates to the energy and "bite" / "attack" in music, and I too appreciate it (for instance, I really love listening to rock with my modded KSC75s, which have dead-neutral midrange from 500 - 4000 Hz, unlike most other headphones I've owned or heard).

 

HE500s' upper midrange is recessed by a couple of dBs, which gives it a relaxed, unoffensive sound signature; it isn't however heavily recessed, so no detail is missing per-say, just that the presentation is different.

would someone be so kind to explain more in depth what the term "bite" & "attack" means in terms of sound quality, and perhaps some examples of high bite/attack songs vs low bite/attack songs?

 

:) thanks & cheers

post #1296 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post
 

would someone be so kind to explain more in depth what the term "bite" & "attack" means in terms of sound quality, and perhaps some examples of high bite/attack songs vs low bite/attack songs?

 

:) thanks & cheers

Remeber that sound is not only heard but felt, for me "bite" is a quick bit of tactility from mids. Like a "ear pinch
 but not as painful, attack is how quickly the note peaks, or the speed at which the sound wave reaches it's peak, so if your headphone has a lot of attack those peaks are going to come fast and hard, 

post #1297 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post
 

would someone be so kind to explain more in depth what the term "bite" & "attack" means in terms of sound quality, and perhaps some examples of high bite/attack songs vs low bite/attack songs?

 

:) thanks & cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
 

Remeber that sound is not only heard but felt, for me "bite" is a quick bit of tactility from mids. Like a "ear pinch
 but not as painful, attack is how quickly the note peaks, or the speed at which the sound wave reaches it's peak, so if your headphone has a lot of attack those peaks are going to come fast and hard, 

 

A more objective explanation is that:

 

Human vocals as well as most string/wind/percussion instruments (save for a few extremes like flute or drums) have their fundamental notes below 1000 Hz (mostly lower~mid midrange), and harmonics above 1000 Hz (mostly the upper midrange region). The harmonics give vocals/instruments their distinctive sound signatures, and having too little/too much upper midrange will result in vocals/instruments sounding too relaxed / too aggressive, respectively.


Edited by jerg - 1/30/14 at 6:19pm
post #1298 of 3090

Right it's a matter of harmonics to fundamentals.  Having too much or too little upper midrange won't mess with timbre too much per say, as long as the overall frequency balance of the headphone doesn't have all sorts of weird minor colorations throughout it.  I find that most tactility in headphones comes from having adequate speed and definition to properly play back bass, mid and treble components of every sound all at once. 

 

There's some key elements associated with attack and bite centered around the upper mids though, particularly the attack of percussion and the rasp of brass instruments.

post #1299 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
 

Remeber that sound is not only heard but felt, for me "bite" is a quick bit of tactility from mids. Like a "ear pinch
 but not as painful, attack is how quickly the note peaks, or the speed at which the sound wave reaches it's peak, so if your headphone has a lot of attack those peaks are going to come fast and hard, 

So does the impulse response measured for a headphone tell you how much attack it has? I notice that people also do a square wave response measurement for headphones, isn't this basically again similar to measuring the impulse response?


Edited by PTom - 1/31/14 at 1:59am
post #1300 of 3090

I know this is slightly OT, and i'm not sure if this has been discussed yet, but I am thinking of getting a HE-500.  However, with these coming out so soon, what's the difference between the 400i and 500?  I've read about the differences between the 500 and 560, but I don't know if I can justify an extra $300.  I'm definitely going to have to demo all 3 before making a decision.  But any one else who has heard these, what is your take?  400i for $500, 500 for $600, and 560 for $900.  That's enough price difference for me to think about any of these options!   A little more info, I would be running with this a HifIman EF-5 amp, and hopefully a sound card soon (probably the essence stx).  I do a lot of music and gaming (which positional tracking is decently important).  I wear these for quite a few hours at a time, so comfort is a pretty big deal.  I've played around with a HE400 before, and I notice the weight, but it doesn't seem too uncomfortable, although I've never worn it for 6 hours at a time like how I wear my current Sennheiser HD555s.

post #1301 of 3090

^^ The early report is that the sound signature between the two hp's will be similar. The 400i will be lighter, more comfortable, easier to drive. And the he500 will be...discontinued. RIP he500 you were a very fine hp. :beerchug:

post #1302 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post
 

 In it, didn't you guys say something about the HE-400 being cheaper to produce because it's assembled at a factory and not by hand? Sorry if I'm wrong about this. So the HE-400i is assembled by the hands of about 20 people?

 

 

When we designed HE-400, one of our goals was to innovate certain manufacturing processes that will allow us to reduce the man power that is needed to assemble a planar magnetic headphone. That's why we were able price HE-400 very aggressively. For HE-500 and HE-6 their drivers are much more complicated, and certain parts must be assembled by hand due to their extremely low tolerance. 

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post #1303 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post
 

^^ The early report is that the sound signature between the two hp's will be similar. The 400i will be lighter, more comfortable, easier to drive. And the he500 will be...discontinued. RIP he500 you were a very fine hp. :beerchug:

i agree. HE-500 is actually one of my favorite headphones. It will always have s special place in my heart. hehe...

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post #1304 of 3090
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamHiFiMAN View Post
 

i agree. HE-500 is actually one of my favorite headphones. It will always have s special place in my heart. hehe...

 

It's very exciting to think of what the he400i promises to bring to the table. Very excited here. Any updates on the release date or if there will be a pre-order? 

post #1305 of 3090

He mentioned earlier that hifiman doesn't want to do pre-orders unless it's very close to release date, because they don't want pre-orders to keep pushing shipping times back.

 

This is unrelated to what hifiman said, but look at the alpha dog, that thing has like a 2 month turnaround now because he allowed so much pre-orders.

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