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Westone Signature W-series W50 & W60 - Page 22

post #316 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbr1971 View Post
 

 

Just got my W4r's & am a few songs into listening. Out of the box I am liking them a lot.

 

Your description was spot on. Definitely warmer than the Grado's, but not obnoxiously so. A real nice balance with great treble presence given their warmth.

 

I am currently using the Westone silicone tips, but will be trying the Shure tips I bought & modified for the W50's at some point as well.

 

I am going to have some fun with these this weekend. Thanks again for the recommendation.

 

Liking my X5/W40 combination. I Initially switched from Silicon to Comply T100 but found the treble slightly rolled off and a warmer sound. Happy with Westone silicon best.

post #317 of 355
First impressions on the W60. It seems like a slight upgrade to the W4R. With better and lower bass punch. No more focusing on mid bass like W4R. The W60 retains the Westone house sound with smooth, lush and intimate vocals which is well positioned and not "in your face". Treble, again, is extremely smooth and well extended as the W4R. One thing to note is that the "veil" which I find clouding the lower mids on W4R is now gone on the W60 which gives it better clarity. Separation and soundstage wise probably around on par or slightly edging out W4R.

Though not a complete upgrade over W4R, it actually covers and improves over the flaws and complaints of W4R.

However, when factoring in the price of W60, priced at SGD$1399 in my country, I would happily go for W4R at street price of around ~SGD$350 and an aftermarket cable which makes more sense economically wise..
post #318 of 355

Thanks, saved me some money.

post #319 of 355
Balanced cables on 4r but won't make them approach the w60. I had the 4r and now own the w60 in addition to the 846.

The w60 is not 2times the w40 but you cannot get the w60 from 40 or with any combination of eq or cables. In my mind it is at least 60% improvement. Add balanced silver Litz cables and amp to the w60 and the gap widens further.

That being said it is a personal value choice.
Edited by M Coupe - 6/7/14 at 2:27pm
post #320 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Coupe View Post

Balanced cables on 4r but won't make them approach the w60. I had the 4r and now own the w60 in addition to the 846.

The w60 is not 2times the w40 but you cannot get the w60 from 40 or with any combination of eq or cables. In my mind it is at least 60% improvement. Add balanced silver Litz cables and amp to the w60 and the gap widens further.

 

Agreed, but I don't know if you can quantify the improvement. The problem, if one can call it that, is that the the W4 performs so admirably to begin with. Any improvement on that sound quality would have been costly to begin with, which is why we have these universal IEMs that cost $1000+. Once we hit a threshold, paying for improvement gets expensive, and paying twice as much will obviously not yield twice the improvement.

 

That said, is the improvement worth the price? Clearly, the answer will differ from person to person. Personally, I'm someone who loved the W4 so much, that I picked up a W4R to have a spare, as well as a 5G Ipod Touch to make sure I had a <1 ohm output impedance source. Owning two W4s already, the W60 was a no brainer for me, as long as Westone didn't change their house sound - which they didn't thankfully. The W60 is essentially end game for me, and it should stop me from hunting for bigger and better until the next generation/refresh.

 

Also regarding using an amp with the W60 - would it really make a difference considering these IEM's aren't hard to drive to begin with? I thought having a source with output impedance <1 ohm was the most important thing to have when it came to multi balanced armature IEMs. The W60 gets uncomfortablely loud at 40-50% volume on the 5G iPod Touch, and I can't imagine it needing an amp. The UM3X and W4 didn't improve with an amp for me, and just made my set up more cumbersome. 

post #321 of 355
Yes amp or DAP is necessary for balanced. The w60 scales up nicely with balanced setup. To clarify, I did not recommend amp for volume. Balanced makes a a massive improvement in dynamics and Soundstage. It makes single ended input sound flat by comparison. You are right though it is more bulky.
Edited by M Coupe - 6/7/14 at 6:43pm
post #322 of 355

W4 versus W40:  W40 truly adds about 15-20% more bass.  A really nice treat.  But soundstage is a bit closer in.  Not claustrophobic like UM3X but quite intimate.  Soft extended treble and great transparency are traits that have always had the W4/40 a better choice over SE535 for many.  If you took W40 and...

  • made soundstage a bit larger
  • got rid of the lower mid bass cloudiness/veil
  • added a very subtle and slight sub bass effect

 

you would have pure perfection.  Regardless of what SE846 does, what I describe above would be GOLD....and it sounds like W60 kind of does this.  As another poster mentioned, W4 was much more grown up sounding than SE535 so the improvements from SE535 to SE846 was much larger than it was from W4/40 to W60 (is what it seems like).

 

While SE846 seems to have the better "wow" factor and the best universal IEM  bass in the world, (it seems) the W60 still has a very nice FULL sound but better treble and transparency.  Sounds like an amazing IEM.


Edited by Spyro - 6/7/14 at 7:39pm
post #323 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

W4 versus W40:  W40 truly adds about 15-20% more bass.  A really nice treat.  But soundstage is a bit closer in.  Not claustrophobic like UM3X but quite intimate.  Soft extended treble and great transparency are traits that have always had the W4/40 a better choice over SE535 for many.  If you took W40 and...
  • made soundstage a bit larger
  • got rid of the lower mid bass cloudiness/veil
  • added a very subtle and slight sub bass effect

you would have pure perfection.  Regardless of what SE846 does, what I describe above would be GOLD....and it sounds like W60 kind of does this.  As another poster mentioned, W4 was much more grown up sounding than SE535 so the improvements from SE535 to SE846 was much larger than it was from W4/40 to W60 (is what it seems like).

While SE846 seems to have the better "wow" factor and the best universal IEM  bass in the world, (it seems) the W60 still has a very nice FULL sound but better treble and transparency.  Sounds like an amazing IEM.

From the reviews it seems Westone chose the path of least resistance and risk in designing the W60. No great innovation just an upgrade from the W4.

While the bass on the 846 is amazing lest us not forget the exchangeable filters allowing a quick and easy organic change in the sound is also part of the design of the SE846. Westone's answer to a change in filters on the 846 was what, a purely cosmetic change in faceplates.

As a mergers and acquisition attorney with extensive experience representing private equity shops like Blackstone and KKR to name a couple, this does not surprise me as you have to remember the Westone of old ended in December of 2011. In 2011, CID Capital bought majority control of Westone Labs from the founding Morgan family. Trust me when I tell you private equity firms are not in business of long term building of companies. The average time a portfolio company is held by a private equity shop is around 5 years before they sell. I am afraid to say it but like Logitech's acquisition of UE, Westone's acquisition may be the end of a great innovator.
Edited by spook76 - 6/7/14 at 8:07pm
post #324 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by spook76 View Post


From the reviews it seems Westone chose the path of least resistance and risk in designing the W60. No great innovation just an upgrade from the W4.

While the bass on the 846 is amazing lest us not forget the exchangeable filters allowing a quick and easy organic change in the sound is also part of the design of the SE846. Westone's answer to a change in filters on the 846 was what, a purely cosmetic change in faceplates.

As a mergers and acquisition attorney with extensive experience representing private equity shops like Blackstone and KKR to name a couple, this does not surprise me as you have to remember the Westone of old ended in December of 2011. In 2011, CID Capital bought majority control of Westone Labs from the founding Morgan family. Trust me when I tell you private equity firms are not in business of long term building of companies. The average time a portfolio company is held by a private equity shop is around 5 years before they sell. I am afraid to say it but like Logitech's acquisition of UE, Westone's acquisition may be the end of a great innovator.

So sad to hear this

post #325 of 355

Not that $1,000 IEM's cater to the masses but it would seem like Shure went for the commercially more appealing "change" and/or a wow factor.

 

Westone took a sensational quad driver and inarguably made it even better.  Hard to fathom double the cost though.  Perhaps $600 would seem more fitting but then, again, its competing against SE846 which was twice as good as SE535 but W60 is only somewhat better than W40.

post #326 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

Not that $1,000 IEM's cater to the masses but it would seem like Shure went for the commercially more appealing "change" and/or a wow factor.

Westone took a sensational quad driver and inarguably made it even better.  Hard to fathom double the cost though.  Perhaps $600 would seem more fitting but then, again, its competing against SE846 which was twice as good as SE535 but W60 is only somewhat better than W40.

I think it is Westone who went for the commercially appealing option with the stupid outside cover changes. That kind of change is like Beats offering their headphones in multiple colors.
post #327 of 355
Doubt they did any market research on the color shells. If they did I would love to meet that group.
post #328 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelfong View Post
 

So sad to hear this

 

Eh, I'd take his comment with a grain of salt. I've noticed a lot of criticism coming from people who are biased one way or another. This thread is supposed to be about the W50 and W60, and it is definitely not a place to be putting down the company itself based on speculation however much it is his professional opinion, because it has nothing to do with how the W50 and W60 performs.

 

But since innovation was brought up, IMO Westone hasn't stopped innovating since 2011. Since then, they've come out with two new sets of IEM tips that are well regarded here and was sorely needed on the scene (how many SE846 users are using the Star tips?). Also they revamped their entire line of professional and personal universal IEMs. And really, what does it mean to call something "just an upgrade from the W4". Are we really forgetting how insanely good the W4 is to begin with? Finally, it's pretty thoughtless to say that Westone's response to the SE846 was merely a cosmetic user changeable faceplate - unless I am mistaken, the SE846 still only has 4 drivers... which was done first by Westone back in... 2011. Sure, you can change the filters of the SE846 all you want, but it still won't give you two extra drivers on each side.

 

But I'll stop there, because I know the SE846 is great from what I've read, but I don't own it and haven't heard it, so I can't comment on it. What I can say is that I know for a fact the W60 is good, and I'm pretty sure Spyro, who has heard both and has great ears when it comes to these things, is saying that both are good as well, albeit in different ways. 

 

I feel that Westone decided to stick to their guns and keep their house sound which they are known for, and improve on it. None of that, "let's try to please everyone with different filters" approach. They are catering to their fans in that respect and if they had changed it, I would have returned the W60 on the spot. I agree, the user changeable faceplates are gimmicky, but I'm here for the sound and it is solid. The build of the IEM is great as well. I also appreciate the fact they kept the braided EPIC cables, but did away with the wire guided plastic that was on the W4R - that shows they listed to feedback from their fans. I personally think Westone should have made the W60 only, and priced the thing to undercut the SE846, and skipped the W50 all together. That way consumers would have an interesting breakdown of price points for Westone, Shure, and JH, instead of this artificial price point of $1k (that I blame the k3003 for). But flagships are flagships, and people go with one or the other based on the sound signature they like. If you don't agree with the sound, thats fine, but it doesn't mean the IEM is ****ty or the company is destined for mediocrity.

 

And if you haven't heard the IEM at all, I'm pretty sure you aren't supposed to be posting inflammatory comments regarding it, let alone the company, based on your perception of what other people have written. Sorry for the ramble, but acquisition or not, I don't see doom and gloom for Westone any time soon. I hope I haven't offended anyone, especially not Spook76.

post #329 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Coupe View Post

Doubt they did any market research on the color shells. If they did I would love to meet that group.

 

Seriously. 

post #330 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubercaffeinated View Post

Eh, I'd take his comment with a grain of salt. I've noticed a lot of criticism coming from people who are biased one way or another. This thread is supposed to be about the W50 and W60, and it is definitely not a place to be putting down the company itself based on speculation however much it is his professional opinion, because it has nothing to do with how the W50 and W60 performs.

But since innovation was brought up, IMO Westone hasn't stopped innovating since 2011. Since then, they've come out with two new sets of IEM tips that are well regarded here and was sorely needed on the scene (how many SE846 users are using the Star tips?). Also they revamped their entire line of professional and personal universal IEMs. And really, what does it mean to call something "just an upgrade from the W4". Are we really forgetting how insanely good the W4 is to begin with? Finally, it's pretty thoughtless to say that Westone's response to the SE846 was merely a cosmetic user changeable faceplate - unless I am mistaken, the SE846 still only has 4 drivers... which was done first by Westone back in... 2011. Sure, you can change the filters of the SE846 all you want, but it still won't give you two extra drivers on each side.

But I'll stop there, because I know the SE846 is great from what I've read, but I don't own it and haven't heard it, so I can't comment on it. What I can say is that I know for a fact the W60 is good, and I'm pretty sure Spyro, who has heard both and has great ears when it comes to these things, is saying that both are good as well, albeit in different ways. 

I feel that Westone decided to stick to their guns and keep their house sound which they are known for, and improve on it. None of that, "let's try to please everyone with different filters" approach. They are catering to their fans in that respect and if they had changed it, I would have returned the W60 on the spot. I agree, the user changeable faceplates are gimmicky, but I'm here for the sound and it is solid. The build of the IEM is great as well. I also appreciate the fact they kept the braided EPIC cables, but did away with the wire guided plastic that was on the W4R - that shows they listed to feedback from their fans. I personally think Westone should have made the W60 only, and priced the thing to undercut the SE846, and skipped the W50 all together. That way consumers would have an interesting breakdown of price points for Westone, Shure, and JH, instead of this artificial price point of $1k (that I blame the k3003 for). But flagships are flagships, and people go with one or the other based on the sound signature they like. If you don't agree with the sound, thats fine, but it doesn't mean the IEM is ****ty or the company is destined for mediocrity.

And if you haven't heard the IEM at all, I'm pretty sure you aren't supposed to be posting inflammatory comments regarding it, let alone the company, based on your perception of what other people have written. Sorry for the ramble, but acquisition or not, I don't see doom and gloom for Westone any time soon. I hope I haven't offended anyone, especially not Spook76.

You haven't offended me everyone is entitled to their opinion. I know what the consequences of a leveraged buyout of company means to the target company. Profits have to go to the banks to pay for the acquisition leaving little or no capital for research and development.

Looking at Westone specifically, they made a cosmetic change to their line up and added a 5 and 6 driver universal and a new (ES6) custom IEM. The W50 and W60 are housed in the same shell as the W40 so the innovation is what, at most a couple of drivers. Looking at their competition like JH Audio (Freq Phase and Roxanne with adjustable bass), Shure (low pass filter), Sennheiser (dynamic driver in a unique housing), AKG (hybrid universal) and Tralucent (isobaric dynamic drivers) who have innovated since 2011 I see nothing of note from the Westone line up. Not all the innovations met with acclaim or success but I cannot fault the companies for trying.

But that is my opinion and I hope I have not offended you uber.
Edited by spook76 - 6/8/14 at 9:08pm
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