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The Astell & Kern AK240 - Page 78

post #1156 of 6227

I can't even find out the info whether the AK240 has an absolutely clean LO, by that I mean completely bypassing the board from dac. If not, why?

post #1157 of 6227
Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post

I don't think anyone's afraid of modded anything around here. Around these parts, it seemed to me that a lot of AK100 (original model) owners were getting theirs modded.


The screen real estate is put to very good use. I can see more of my music (in terms of directories, etc.), the volume screen volume slider takes up the entire screen, and the increased height makes it rather easier to make more precise volume changes.

As for the download thing: I haven't gotten to that yet. Once I figure that out, I'll post about it.

Jude, more than the downloading what I would love to know is how you find it streaming from your computers hard drive. I don't know if you have the free soft wear A&K told me on FB that will be available to achieve this function but for me that is a big thing as my critical listening is done at home with my TU-05 and LCD's or T5P's to be able to stream from my Mac's hard drive right to the player will be useful I think.
post #1158 of 6227
Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post
 

As for your earlier comment that the AK240 is just another Android device with little to differentiate it from other Android-based devices: I had the Galaxy S3, and currently own the Galaxy S4 and Galaxy Note 3, in addition to the iPhone 5s...

 

 

...If you can tell me how I can get any of the three on the left to sound like and do everything the one on the right does, I'm all ears.

 

Slightly off topic, but the Samsung Galaxy S3 (international version, together with Neutron Music Player) is actually the best sounding source I've found so far for the FI-BA-SS. The latter being base for the new AKR02 that Astell & Kern released along with the AK240, as you mentioned.

 

Of course I'm aware that subjective listening impressions are, ermm, subjective, but I've had my FI-BA-SS for more than 3 years now, love them to bits and know them inside-out. During that time I've tried them with pretty much every DAP that crossed my path (RWAK100, Colorfly C4, Tera Player, ...) and believe it or not, to this day the SGS3 remains the best sounding source for the FI-BA-SS that I've personally heard.

 

Just saying... I hope that A&K did a great job matching the AKR02 to their new uber-DAP and look forward to comparing that combo to the SGS3 + FI-BA-SS some day. :smile_phones: 

post #1159 of 6227
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMinor View Post
 

I can't even find out the info whether the AK240 has an absolutely clean LO, by that I mean completely bypassing the board from dac. If not, why?

 

@DMinor, I'm not sure how the line-out is implemented.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post

Jude, more than the downloading what I would love to know is how you find it streaming from your computers hard drive. I don't know if you have the free soft wear A&K told me on FB that will be available to achieve this function but for me that is a big thing as my critical listening is done at home with my TU-05 and LCD's or T5P's to be able to stream from my Mac's hard drive right to the player will be useful I think.
 

@ianmedium, I don't have that software yet, but it's coming. I'm very eager to try that, too, because, for me, it's a big part of the AK240's value proposition. It does allow you to stream, and I think it may also you to download directly to the device from it.

 

Anyway, when I get the software, I'll let you know what I think of it.

post #1160 of 6227
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post
 

 

I am still wondering why they moved from  Wolfson WM8740 to Cirrus Logic CS4398 ?  I'm Very skeptical !!

 

A logical step will have been, to go for Wolfson WM8741 that also can decode DSD  !  (and who care if a larger battery may have been needed ?)   

 

The  Cirrus Logic CS4398  has a reputation of being more for mainstream devices, not very top-of-the line !!!   Strange move !!

I think CS4398 is a much harder DAC to be DIY friendly(hence no one is likely to be able to tweak the AK240). But I am glad they did, I like Cirrus logic DAC sounds (or at least the few of their implementation variety).

post #1161 of 6227
Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post

@DMinor
, I'm not sure how the line-out is implemented.

@ianmedium
, I don't have that software yet, but it's coming. I'm very eager to try that, too, because, for me, it's a big part of the AK240's value proposition. It does allow you to stream, and I think it may also you to download directly to the device from it.

Anyway, when I get the software, I'll let you know what I think of it.

Oh, thats Great Jude, I will look forward to hearing your thoughts.
I am wondering, with all the nonsense attacking A&K on this thread to filter through that it might be a good idea to start a thread with listening thoughts on the 240, hopefully that way those of us interested in it can have a clear thread to hear peoples thoughts as they start to come through. I know yours are echoing a few of my friends who have heard it at CES.

As to the line out, if its anything like the 120 it won't be an issue, I have not heard anything detrimental with my 120's line out and both my amp and T5P's are pretty revealing.
post #1162 of 6227

Browser messing up. Sorry.


Edited by Goldlion973 - 1/25/14 at 3:33pm
post #1163 of 6227

jude,

 

on the LO topic, any idea about this strange little "obstrusive" box ?  Why is is needed rather than simply a cable  ? is there some electronic inside ?

 

post #1164 of 6227
That's ok And I see your point , has headfi ever did a review on a modded product ?

Al
post #1165 of 6227
Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post
 

 

I don't think anyone's afraid of modded anything around here. Around these parts, it seemed to me that a lot of AK100 (original model) owners were getting theirs modded.

 

 

The screen real estate is put to very good use. I can see more of my music (in terms of directories, etc.), the volume screen volume slider takes up the entire screen, and the increased height makes it rather easier to make more precise volume changes.

 

As for the download thing: I haven't gotten to that yet. Once I figure that out, I'll post about it.

When I say afraid of mods I don't mean us... meant the reviews given... was wondering if you felt comfortable  reviewing a RW mod or if you feel it might compromise your standing with iRiver is all. Thanks for the mention on the screen.... am supposing it doesn't do video and isn't able to use the net so iRiver have partners for the download section via an app.... not that I'd want that (an internet browser) on a device but its a whole heap of screen, if it could play video as per cowon by way of file handling it would have opened up the market for them quite a bit.

 

Its not a future proof device IMO, it will last five years or so before its replaced if not by iRiver then either another company, big or small, short or tall.... a review comparing it to what RW can do to the AK120 would be great.... also an explanation on why you would bypass the dual DAC sectionon the AK120 via optical out to pass the signal through an external amp with only one DAC would come in handy, seems extravagant.

 

Thanks .lol.

post #1166 of 6227

How is the battery life on these anyway?

post #1167 of 6227
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post


Oh, thats Great Jude, I will look forward to hearing your thoughts.
I am wondering, with all the nonsense attacking A&K on this thread to filter through that it might be a good idea to start a thread with listening thoughts on the 240, hopefully that way those of us interested in it can have a clear thread to hear peoples thoughts as they start to come through. I know yours are echoing a few of my friends who have heard it at CES.

As to the line out, if its anything like the 120 it won't be an issue, I have not heard anything detrimental with my 120's line out and both my amp and T5P's are pretty revealing.

 

Dude calm down and learn to hear opinions from both sides. To call others' comments as nonsense attacking A&K makes yourself look bad, really. Please do yourself favor and refrain from saying things like that. I think healthy discussions should be encouraged, as long as they are kept civil. There is no need for being emotional if you don't agree with something said by others.

 

Now, I hate to say this but sorry I am gonna say it anyway - your comments on the line out are pretty much nonsense. No offense tho.


Edited by DMinor - 1/25/14 at 6:17pm
post #1168 of 6227
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

That's ok And I see your point , has headfi ever did a review on a modded product ?

Al

 

Sorry for the mess... they've done the Fostex stuff etc but thats compliant, they (fostex) don't seem bothered by it from what I can see, they could complain about it if they wanted but they're probably humbled by the sub-culture and see it as a benifit to their reputation, which it is... I mean, jude has an AK120 and must've thought about having it balanced with a true lineout rather than pass its signal through another device using it as a signal rather than a player, there has to be a comparison between it and the AK240, especially as the AK240 isn't offering that much over it.

 

Opensource is the future, props to iBasso on realising the benifits of that one.

post #1169 of 6227
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMinor View Post

Dude calm down and learn to hear opinions from both sides. To call others' comments as nonsense attacking A&K makes yourself look bad, really. Please do yourself favor and restrain from saying things like that. I think healthy discussions should be encouraged, as long as they are kept civil. There is no need for being emotional if you don't agree with something said by others.

Now, I hate to say this but sorry I am gonna say it anyway - your comments on the line out are pretty much nonsense. No offense tho.

So, you think the attacks on A&K have been civil???? Sheesh!
post #1170 of 6227
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post
 

 

I am still wondering why they moved from  Wolfson WM8740 to Cirrus Logic CS4398 ?  I'm Very skeptical !!

 

A logical step will have been, to go for Wolfson WM8741 that also can decode DSD  !  (and who care if a larger battery may have been needed ?)   

 

The  Cirrus Logic CS4398  has a reputation of being more for mainstream devices, not very top-of-the line !!!   Strange move !!

CS4398 for more mainstream devices? What?


Please Read this before continuing with your flame wars people:

 

I am absolutely in favor of stuff like the AK 240. I absolutely am. We must first acertain that we are in a niche field. 

 

Jude's comment on pushing the envelop of innovation is exactly why I think stuff like the AK 240 is good for the field. Look around guys, half the audiophile DAP's on the markets have problems here and there. The AK's aren't without their share of problems from what I've heard, but its like the Apple of DAP's. It doesn't need the best sound or anything. It just needs to 'work'.

 

How does this push the field better? Well, IF WE WERE ALL to use the mindset of hating on the AK240 right now as we did back with the CMOY's, headphone audio may not have gotten anywhere.

 

THEY ARE CHARING 2X for a new amp!?? What? Nah bro. I gots me a Cmoy. That stuff is too expensive!!
 

 don't see or use price as ANY type of object in a niche field like audio. Because think about it. Companies that are pushing the field and focusing on perfecting - or at the least attempting to perfect - one aspect of that device are spending lots of money and going somewhere others aren't. 

 

But of course, there is then going to be a price precedent and the fact that cost still matters. I'm not going to ignore this. Hold one with me. Let's talk economics now.

 

The AK 240 is obviously VERY expensive. But that's good. That's very good. It means that there is a chance for competition and lots of it. This is why companies in niche fields charge insane amounts of money for their flagship items. Because competition and like products will come out soon that will more or less force them to do something about it or lower the price. They need to make back the money from R and D AND IN TAKING A CHANCE. Companies charge and overcharge to make up for the fact that they are taking such a huge gamble in the market becuase sooner than later, another competitor will come up.

 

Look at FiiO, look at Hisound! This is the competition we are talking about. One company that pushes the field a few years ago (AK 100) will soon receive a challenger that sets a price that people want. Introducing the X5, X3, DX50 etc etc. 

 

Therefore, the price of a product that a company in a niche field products isn't of issue. If it's a shawty product, it won't sell and will fail. If it's TRULY innovative and pushes the field in the direction that other companies see as the future, then competition will soon arise.

 

Guess what guys, the AK class pushed it in that direction. Look at the FiiO X5 and DX50. They recognize that direction, and the fans innately want it and thus are pushing for that direction also. This is the type of directional innovation I was talking about. It is something that also corelates with economics. If its bad in a niche market. It fails. But if it's good, but very pricey, but pushes the field into a new direction. Then, other competition will soon join to produce units with same features or sound with lower price.

 

Now go back a few steps and put yourselves into the shoes of a niche enthusiast company. Your sales, revenue, profit, margins etc are X Y Z. You are a small company as compared to others. Can you imagine the costs, and gamble you must take? Hence the price

 

Those that can afford the price of the very expensive first innovative products will buy them. Simple as that. If you can't afford it or rational it. Wait. 

 

 

Can't ANY of you see that your maxims will fail if you were to castrize something like the AK 240? Look at the Tesla motors car, the first SUV's, the first hypersonic jet. YES, the COST A CRAP TON of money. But they are the ones that creates the futures in each field that they are in. 

 

You guys that are castrizing the AK 240 are setting up very dangerous maxims that you may not understand. A maxim is a sort of law that has to hold true the first AND last time you do it. The example would be a maxim of asking to borrow money from a friend without the intention to pay it back despite the promise. This maxim fails because you can't do it again as your friend won't lend you money.

 

The maxim set in the case of the AK 240 by those that are criticizing its price, is one of stopping innovation, and in stopping the future. Does the huge asking price set a precedent for the $10,000 DAP? Sure. Could it still have some non-perfect issues? Sure. But guess what, this is just part of the field and part of the game. Those that will buy that $10,000 DAP on initial asking price are supporting those practicies and that company. If what is inside that $10,000 DAP is TRULY good, and is something that the people want. Guess what, competition will arise. And that non perfect player? Its gonna happen, you don't have the money? Don't buy it and wait for the comeptition

 

 

I repeated a lot of the same info about 2-3x to make sure that I can use different examples and situations as a way to explain my view point on the AK 240 and similar devices.

 

 

-------------

I believe the reason with why I agree with Jude is due to us reviewing a lot of stuff. He obviously has reviewed a lot more than I have. But even with the amount I've done. It's come to the point in where everything is literally very stagnant. Oh, new package with an IEM. Cool. That stuff just isn't interesting anymore, seeing the same design, seeing the same type of functionality. It's just gotten boring. Stuff comes in costing tens of dollars to digits much higher than Iwould ever care for. It's all, just very stagnant. They sit on my shelf. It's just not interesting anymore. That's why it is there may be such a disconnect between some of us. Some of us see the AK 240 as something they may possibly 'use' or own. And thats why the $2,400 may be alarming to them. But to others, that device can be $5,000, but if it won't push the envelope, its still just part of everything else. That doesn't mean to say its not going to be a 'good' device'. It will be. But there comes a time of when you get bored of the stuff you get, and just want to see some REAL innovation that tries to push the envelope. 


 

Disclaimer: This post has some heated text inputed in it. NONE of it was directed at any individual, company, entity, product. Any mention of any company or product in it was used soley as an example for innovation and is not a true representation of their product or their standing in their persepctive fields. 

 

If anyone's feelings are hurt by this post, despite it not referencing anyone, please note that it was not intentional as I was not referecing anyone here. This post is also not in protecting the AK 240. I have not used the AK 240. This post is rather in showing some of the faults of logic and rationale some are using in terms of real life innovation with the AK 240 and audiphile niche DAP market as its main example for use. I do not believe any HF ToS was violated by this post or in anything referenced in it. I, Panda, encourage discussion, debate, and learning on a higher level. I can definately be argued on some of my points. If so, please do. Everyone can learn. These are but the type of economics, business practices, and other situations that are represented by my type of thought.


Edited by bowei006 - 1/25/14 at 4:30pm
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