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post #7036 of 13841
And I might have found the cure for the. "Fade out - Fade in" playback bug.

I found if I press the "Play" button immediately as soon as the playback screen is shown after the DX90 start up,almost 100% I will encounter the "Fade our - Fade in" bug after playing a few tracks.

If after the DX90 starts up, I wait another 30 secs before pressing "Play", and allow enough time for the device to finish its whatever startup read ahead pre buffering process it runs on startup, I will not encounter the "Fade out - Fade in" bug most of the time.

I think I really have to treat the DX90 like a tube amp to warm up before playing.
Edited by borrego - 7/17/14 at 3:01am
post #7037 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpawluk91 View Post
 

also i remember some angry japanese guy saying that the original chinese dx90 assembly plant was a sloppy mess and they had tons of problems. i guess the employees at the new plant have much higher qualifications and theyre trained to be audio genie's pretty much

 

I wonder which group of employees are the music lovers goodvibes was referring to... LOL

post #7038 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by borrego View Post


Well, may be the battery has the same cspacity spec but with Korea/Japan cell? If they use silver on the circuit board trace then I will believe it will save power. No way just a couple % increase of silver content in solder will make much difference. Unlike through hole circuit board, solder used on surface mount circuit are for fixation purpose rather than conducting purpose. The component on surface mount circuit board can make direct metal to metal contact to the board trace. Actually the less solder used the better.

I am 100% sure it will have its own firmware, for just to have "DX90j" shown on the startup screen. This alone may as well affect the device's memory allocation for loading a different size start up image file. Given how sensitive the DX90 firmware codes are, a different sound signature may as well be introduced. Then there will be another round of arguement here. LOL


The right amount of solder is best. Even if good cold contact could be maintained, those connections would oxidize, resist and open without solder. Why low voltage switches are gold plated and/or have high pressure contacts yet still tend to need a wiped every now and then. LOL about the FW.

 

I completely agree about the questionable benefits of the J without some other part changes. It's not like the board becomes silver tracked.


Edited by goodvibes - 7/17/14 at 4:24am
post #7039 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by borrego View Post
 

 

I wonder which group of employees are the music lovers goodvibes was referring to... LOL


The enthusiasts designing the devices and tweaking the FW. Production can't be so bad considering all the happy customers and amount out there. They also seem to meet their introduction projections better than others. Takes a bit of scurrying to keep up sometimes. They're obviously good at this which takes enthusiasm and bringing out something like the DX90 at it's price is not just about greed. Should be obvious. No, I'm sure they aren't perfect but this constant nit picking and conjecture is getting old.

 

If you're going to report me every time I mention a post of yours, please refrain from doing the same. Feel free to reply to any post directly:smile:

post #7040 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by borrego View Post

And I might have found the cure for the. "Fade out - Fade in" playback bug.

I found if I press the "Play" button immediately as soon as the playback screen is shown after the DX90 start up,almost 100% I will encounter the "Fade our - Fade in" bug after playing a few tracks.

If after the DX90 starts up, I wait another 30 secs before pressing "Play", and allow enough time for the device to finish its whatever startup read ahead pre buffering process it runs on startup, I will not encounter the "Fade out - Fade in" bug most of the time.

I think I really have to treat the DX90 like a tube amp to warm up before playing.


If that's the case, you'd be treating it like your oh so limited resourced PC :wink_face:where programs don't open quickly until it's OS is fully loaded. If this exists for you, the DX90 loads fast so if a little wait was needed for certain uses, it shouldn't be so off putting. Loads faster than my other players.

 

The next perfect DAP will also be the 1st. Sorry to disappoint but I won't hold my breath.


Edited by goodvibes - 7/17/14 at 7:41am
post #7041 of 13841
Never had the fade in/out issue in DX90 on 3 FWs so far. I only had that problem on my DX50. I'm pretty sure I already pressed the play button just a few seconds after I see the playback screen after a fresh boot.
post #7042 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by headwhacker View Post

Never had the fade in/out issue in DX90 on 3 FWs so far. I only had that problem on my DX50. I'm pretty sure I already pressed the play button just a few seconds after I see the playback screen after a fresh boot.

No Sweat. Though I have little amount of money to wager, in most cases I could be totally wrong. LOL
post #7043 of 13841

I'd be happy to take whatever you got.:rolleyes::tongue: 


Edited by goodvibes - 7/17/14 at 5:42am
post #7044 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by borrego View Post


 Unlike through hole circuit board, solder used on surface mount circuit are for fixation purpose rather than conducting purpose. The component on surface mount circuit board can make direct metal to metal contact to the board trace. Actually the less solder used the better.

 

The solder is mainly for conduction, with a secondary purpose of also fixing it to the copper trace.  Theoretically, everything makes a difference, from the thickness and quality of the copper trace, to the amount and kind of solder.  Solder is a material, just like wire, that the electrical signal needs to flow through.  The potential impact of solder is even greater than a change of the wire to a headphone, as it will affect the signal right at the source, on the MB where the signal is being processed.  Low lead/high silver content can have a major impact.  Look up Kondo, from Audio Note, who makes his own output transformers with pure silver wire, wires the amp with pure silver, and very high silver/low lead solder.  He makes his own capacitors using silver or gold foil.  The commercial silver wire is not good enough, so he makes his own wire, from pure silver, slow drawn through the die, at low temperature, to create very long crystalline structures in the wire.

 

I mention the above mainly to give an example of an extreme attention to detail.  But his results are not in question, that his attention to detail gives a result that people who have listened to it, are willing to pay $100k for an amp, and wait in line for it to be hand assembled.

 

And the above is a round about way of saying that the silver solder could make a difference.  Let's see what the users say, when they get a copy to compare with.  Personally, I'm expecting that there will be a difference, even if it is only better solder, and a manufacturing line that has extreme attention to quality.  Having seen what a difference to small detail can do, I am a believer in the differences that a high quality assembly line, run by perfectionists, could make.

 

Whether it is worth the extra cost, that is up to each individual to decide.  Just like we currently do for changes in wiring, DACs, amps, headphones, etc.  Nothing new, actually.  Some people believe that amps, wires, AC cables, etc., do not make any difference.  And some believe that everything makes a difference.  I'm in the latter camp. 

 

But to each his own.  And leave the others to their happy delusions.

post #7045 of 13841

How much is the difference in the overall resistance between using a pure silver solder and a lead based one? Was there a measurement released? Attention to detail is indeed incredible. But SQ difference? I'd rather not go there.

post #7046 of 13841

It could conceivably sound a bit different but better? They could also do some minor voicing tweaks like changing or bypassing the PS caps as they are likely still hand soldered etc. It would only have to do with how that minor dif would blend with the overall sig of a setup. Same reasons for differing opinions on the FW. Fortunately, the majority feel the FW progression has been an ascending curve.


Edited by goodvibes - 7/17/14 at 11:33am
post #7047 of 13841
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttt123 View Post
 

The solder is mainly for conduction, with a secondary purpose of also fixing it to the copper trace.  Theoretically, everything makes a difference, from the thickness and quality of the copper trace, to the amount and kind of solder.  Solder is a material, just like wire, that the electrical signal needs to flow through.  The potential impact of solder is even greater than a change of the wire to a headphone, as it will affect the signal right at the source, on the MB where the signal is being processed.  Low lead/high silver content can have a major impact.  Look up Kondo, from Audio Note, who makes his own output transformers with pure silver wire, wires the amp with pure silver, and very high silver/low lead solder.  He makes his own capacitors using silver or gold foil.  The commercial silver wire is not good enough, so he makes his own wire, from pure silver, slow drawn through the die, at low temperature, to create very long crystalline structures in the wire.

 

I mention the above mainly to give an example of an extreme attention to detail.  But his results are not in question, that his attention to detail gives a result that people who have listened to it, are willing to pay $100k for an amp, and wait in line for it to be hand assembled.

 

And the above is a round about way of saying that the silver solder could make a difference.  Let's see what the users say, when they get a copy to compare with.  Personally, I'm expecting that there will be a difference, even if it is only better solder, and a manufacturing line that has extreme attention to quality.  Having seen what a difference to small detail can do, I am a believer in the differences that a high quality assembly line, run by perfectionists, could make.

 

Whether it is worth the extra cost, that is up to each individual to decide.  Just like we currently do for changes in wiring, DACs, amps, headphones, etc.  Nothing new, actually.  Some people believe that amps, wires, AC cables, etc., do not make any difference.  And some believe that everything makes a difference.  I'm in the latter camp. 

 

But to each his own.  And leave the others to their happy delusions.

Good information and I tend to agree. Also that everything makes a difference, to me, since I have built my own equipment, would agree to that. The least amount of solder to do the job, the better and depending upon the joining of two items, how much solder to both make the electrical connection and to reduce oxidation, is important. I remember a tech once telling me that he thought connections need to be redone every 20 years or so, due to oxidation, but I don't agree, if the connection is done right and I am not sure if his belief has ever been put to a real test. In the past I had my silver wire made. It was/is very high purity, slow cooling and in an oxygen free chamber. The high purity silver, to get it there, does get very expensive. On Audio Note, they are to be admired, IMO> 

 

Keep it simple, use high quality components and really think things out to me, is the best. Great hobby for many, and enjoyable profession for some as well. 

post #7048 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by headwhacker View Post
 

How much is the difference in the overall resistance between using a pure silver solder and a lead based one? Was there a measurement released? Attention to detail is indeed incredible. But SQ difference? I'd rather not go there.


Difference in resistance between pure silver and tin/lead is very very high. When DX90j would be soldered with pure silver, I surely buy it :D

But there is no pure silver solder, but only high content silver soldering - like WBT high silver solder, that have 4% silver. I confirm, that it is too low for 170USD more.

post #7049 of 13841

Normal solder has 11.5% the conductivity of copper but modern lead free solders can contain 3% silver even if not noted and be higher. Typical 4% silver solder has 11.9% the conductivity of copper. That resistance is part of why you always want the best mechanical connections before soldering even if solder flows the joint. In the grand scale, silver to standard solder is a subtle difference in conductivity. 3% of something far off copper to begin with. When you consider the amount used on a pad or to surround a wire the effective differences become even smaller. That doesn't mean it will sound the same but why I question the amount of 'better' in this use. Not to say that I may not prefer the J version when available but it could be the other way as well. One also needs to remember that all the circuit work and voicing was done with the current solder.


Edited by goodvibes - 7/17/14 at 1:00pm
post #7050 of 13841

I guess the higher price for the DX90J should go mostly to recover cost of setting up a new plant and additional employees. I don't expect it to be significantly superior to the DX90. They got to make some improvements to justify the increased asking price, but I do not expect significant differences.

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