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Jun 30, 2014 at 11:37 AM Post #6,541 of 14,084
djinnenjous said:
  Okay, so I freely admit that I'm not nearly the tech-savvy audiophile that most of you guy seem to be.  I'm primarily here to lurk and learn because I can't "talk shop" on a level with the big boys.  Disclaimer aside, I have questions that seems appropriately timed, given the current dispute about external amplification in the thread.  I love my DX90.  I absolutely love it.  I've never heard instrumental separation like this in my entire life and to call the clarity outstanding is an understatement that borders on insult.  The one issue I have with it—and this may well be the result of an iffy IEM pairing and/or lackluster mastering—is that while the low end is present and accurate it sometimes lacks the impact I prefer.  I don't get a lot in the way of obvious sub-bass, in particular.
 
I'm not the type of basshead who would shell out for cannons or even Velodyne vPulses but I'd like the option of dialing up the bass a notch or two.  I'd like to get some opinions from the majority of you regarding eternal portable amplifiers and the DX90.  Specifically, I'm looking to spend no more than about $150 right now and I want to maintain as much accuracy as possible in the mix while boosting the lower frequencies.  I'd really like to avoid bass bleed or drowning out my highs/mids.
 
1)  Yes or no—does it make good sense to use an external amplifier with the DX90 to reshape the sound signature in the way I've described above?
2)  What brands/models would you recommend for this, if any?
 
Thanks in advance to anyone who's willing to take a few minutes to educate a noob.
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The DX90's amp is very capable for intended loads. ie iems, and highly sensitive, low impedance headphones like Grados. While I can enjoy my 600 Ohm T1 directly out of DX90's HO, an external and more powerful amp (like O2) will drive my T1 with more impact and grunt. However, for a late night low volume bed time listening, DX90 alone is sufficient for T1.
 
As for Grado headphones, an external amp is certainly not needed. DX90's amp has more than enough to Drive my Grados with amazing clarity and authority. In fact, changing the cushions on these phones have more dramatic SQ changes than trying different amps.
 
IMO, instead of looking for an amp to get the right SQ shape you are looking for why not try EQ first. Or get the right headphone instead with the sound signature you are looking for.
 
For me, the only reason I would use an external amp is if the headphone I'm using requires extra power that the DX90 can't provide. To my ears DX90 is neutral enough that it allows my headphones to sound exactly how they are suppose to be tuned.
 
Jun 30, 2014 at 3:13 PM Post #6,543 of 14,084
jamato8 said:
Everyone has preferences. It is a very personal thing, in that you hear what "you" hear. 

I find that the amp section, having compared it to external amps, is very neutral and with headphones, that have good bass, are driven with deep bass. If the monitors you use don't have deep bass and would need to use a bit of a bass boost, and your desire is to compensate for the perceived lack of low bass and your desire for it, then possibly an amp with a bass boost. I have the best semi portable amp I have ever heard and for most purposes, do Not find I need it with the DX90. The DX90 is a portable and all my portable phones and most home phones are driven great with it. No distortion or collapse of the sound field is noted in comparison to external amps. The layering is there as are the frequency extremes. 

If you want something different, then use some external amp to your liking but as mentioned, I find the internal amp neutral and powerful and by powerful I mean that it drives without any apparent distortion or constraint on the signal going through it and being amplified. The line out offers you many options and using it, is your choice and playground. :^)
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Have you tried your production 560s with the DX90 unamped? Any chance together?
 
Jun 30, 2014 at 3:37 PM Post #6,544 of 14,084
silverears said:
  What is the guage and ohmage of a typical cable and what value resistors are used in the circuit of the DAP?  Can you also tell us the ohmage of the apth in the DAP, the ohmage of the circuits in the DAP?  What electrical characteristics do you speak of?
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Connectors have impedance and reflections. The jacks connect at single points that have more resistance than tracks etc. Every cable has capacitance and inductance and if one is compensated for, there will likely be more of the other or a lack of shielding which leads to noise susceptabliity. There are no free lunches and since all cables have a (debatable) sig, it also changes the signal in kind.
 
It's really difficult to understand where you're coming from and motivations. In one post you'll describe audible differences in things that both measure extremely well and then don't want to recognize differences in other things due to specs.
 
Jun 30, 2014 at 5:18 PM Post #6,545 of 14,084
andrewh13 said:
Have you tried your production 560s with the DX90 unamped? Any chance together?
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I hadn't till now, because I am burning in the 560's on something else but yes, it sounds good together. Nice articulated (defined) bass. Volume set to 240. No distortion or closing in of the soundstage. 
 
Jun 30, 2014 at 6:03 PM Post #6,546 of 14,084
jamato8 said:
I hadn't till now, because I am burning in the 560's on something else but yes, it sounds good together. Nice articulated (defined) bass. Volume set to 240. No distortion or closing in of the soundstage. 
Click to expand...
Thanks, very interesting!
 
Jul 1, 2014 at 7:28 AM Post #6,548 of 14,084
Sorry for this stupid question (and yes, I know it's probably been covered a thousand times but i'm on the road and don't have time to do a full search)… but how do I load iTunes music onto the dx90 and get all relevant info? When I drag and drop from main iTunes interface it seems it's pulling all the tracks and artwork, but not organizing it all in albums. Am i missing something?
 
Thanks in advance.
 
Jul 1, 2014 at 7:44 AM Post #6,549 of 14,084
lhamp said:
  Sorry for this stupid question (and yes, I know it's probably been covered a thousand times but i'm on the road and don't have time to do a full search)… but how do I load iTunes music onto the dx90 and get all relevant info? When I drag and drop from main iTunes interface it seems it's pulling all the tracks and artwork, but not organizing it all in albums. Am i missing something?
 
Thanks in advance.
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You have to drag and drop the source files/folders from your iTunes media folder
 
Jul 1, 2014 at 7:58 AM Post #6,550 of 14,084
tokengesture said:
You have to drag and drop the source files/folders from your iTunes media folder
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And you are likely to be missing a fair number of cover art and iTunes tags are frequently in a state that will trip the DX90 over
 
Jul 1, 2014 at 8:19 AM Post #6,551 of 14,084
goodvibes said:
  Connectors have impedance and reflections. The jacks connect at single points that have more resistance than tracks etc. Every cable has capacitance and inductance and if one is compensated for, there will likely be more of the other or a lack of shielding which leads to noise susceptabliity. There are no free lunches and since all cables have a (debatable) sig, it also changes the signal in kind.
 
It's really difficult to understand where you're coming from and motivations. In one post you'll describe audible differences in things that both measure extremely well and then don't want to recognize differences in other things due to specs.
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They do not have reflections(this is audio frequencies, this is not in microwave electronics) and my point is the impedance is not valued to the point contributing audibly to the signal if you want to go into measurements.  Capacitance?  Please provide me with how much capacitance in the cable, it's insignificant, plus the capacitance at the input of the amp is magnitudes greater.  So please provide me with the value of the capacitance of a typical cable, the gauge, and the ohmage if you want to support your claims. The ohmage of the cable which is insignificant is the characteristic impedance of the cable. Cables are twisted for shielding, it's done on CAT5, and power cables, it's nothing new.  
 
If you want measured well, why not an iphone?  The measurements do not reveal the sonic performance, all it tell you is that it is magnitude below perceptible level.  Saying that the DAP is neutral is useless based on RMAA.  Look at every other audio player out there.  They are all flat.  This doesn't tell you anything.  I can post measured values of X5 and X3 from a chinese forum which is flat, much greater power output, and measures extremely well.  I can post plenty of DAPs that measures well.
 
We can talk about it more if you want to bring it up to the science forum if you choose to.  
 
Jul 1, 2014 at 9:08 AM Post #6,552 of 14,084
There's a reason I said 'debatable' but that's not for here. You asked a question. I answered in a non-circular fashion that tried to directly address the question. Try a non-balanced braided cable in a high rf environment some time.
rolleyes.gif
I believe impedance of connectors and cables differences in general are audible and I still can't tell if you do. Compare a good DIN or XLR (unbalanced) to an RCA in the same high quality circuit and get back to me. Don't be surprised if part of what balanced advocates are hearing is the connector. Don't really care that much how you feel about it since all are allowed to believe as they please as long as they don't impose on others.
 
Jul 1, 2014 at 10:32 AM Post #6,553 of 14,084
There is capacitance, small but there, between a dielectric and the conductor. This is also true on circuit boards and inductance. This has been known for a long time. 
 
Jul 1, 2014 at 7:44 PM Post #6,554 of 14,084
Hi guys,
 
For those of you who have or have tried both, how does this DAP compare to the X5 in practice? Info on the UI in particular for this one seems scarce, but from what I can gather the DX90 can support multiple playlists while the X5 can't, the DX90 is touchscreen while the X5 uses a wheel, the DX90 can be operated with the screen off and the X5 can't, and the DX90 has a shorter battery life and one less card slot. Sonic impressions seem to be all over the place, so I'm not sure what to believe.
 
Does the DX90 allow you to make more than one EQ preset, and how does the output power compare to the X5?
 
Jul 1, 2014 at 8:54 PM Post #6,555 of 14,084
tsujigiri said:
Hi guys,

For those of you who have or have tried both, how does this DAP compare to the X5 in practice? Info on the UI in particular for this one seems scarce, but from what I can gather the DX90 can support multiple playlists while the X5 can't, the DX90 is touchscreen while the X5 uses a wheel, the DX90 can be operated with the screen off and the X5 can't, and the DX90 has a shorter battery life and one less card slot. Sonic impressions seem to be all over the place, so I'm not sure what to believe.

Does the DX90 allow you to make more than one EQ preset, and how does the output power compare to the X5?
Click to expand...

You can change songs with the x5 with the screen off if you turn off the lock. I know because the x5 just loves to randomly shuffle in my pocket.
The DX90 feels much lighter. x5 feels more solid and heavier. I dropped the dx90 a few times and it suffered minimal damage.
The UI on the DX90 is much more simple especially since it's touch screen. The wheel can be a pain to use sometimes compared to touch screen. The DX90 has a user replaceable battery so it can last years to come if you don't lose it or smash it. The x5 is not user replaceable.
I don't really use playlists, but it looks like you have to add it one at a time on the dx90 which might suck.
The sound changes with firmware updates apparently so that might be why they are all over the place. I personally like the DX90 better. If you need the extra micro sd slot then you should go with the x5 though.
From my experience the x5 can make my headphones go louder, but they hiss with the se846. The DX90 is good enough to power all of my headphones and C/IEM without problems.
 
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