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post #6361 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by headwhacker View Post
 

He is certainly asking about DX90, so in DX90's context USB OTG is only for storage. Doesn't matter if the amp supports digital audio via USB, it simply won't work with DX90.


Oh I see, Thanks for the info. =)

post #6362 of 13841

The one issue I've had with batteries over the years is that they can sound slow or rounded next to a good linear supply. It can be offset some with a well chosen electrolytic in parallel. It has to do with the power delivery which isn't as fast as a capacitor. The Samsung battery eliminates that sense in the DX90.

 

Really like this addition and find the difference quite noticeable. Makes me wonder what the earlier FW would sound like with it. I'm not going to try since the functionality is so good now but I bet one of the upcoming updates will bring nirvana with a genuine Samsung battery. While I'm a fan, I've said 2 things about the player that aren't complimentary since I've owned it. One is that it sounds phase inverted to me which is a non-issue for most considering that music files and earphones often are as well. The other is that the player has been on the warm side, a little thick. The Samsung battery removes that sense. :ksc75smile: It snaps the player up with more dynamic contrast. While it doesn't radically change the amount of detail, it will make it's excellent level of resolve easily apparent to those that like it more delineated.


Edited by goodvibes - 6/25/14 at 1:17am
post #6363 of 13841

I have finally got back my DX90! The headphone jack became a little loose right after the 2-week return period and I had to send it back for repair. (I bought it from Eglobalcentral, a Hong Kong-based store.)

 

They received it after a week and told me it got fixed the very next day! I was impressed until it turns out they have simply sent me a new one. Time to burn-in again:confused_face:.

 

Anyway, I dropped-in the original Samsung battery and it REALLY sound better. No more overpowered bass!

I have also noticed that it heats up less with the new battery.:beyersmile:  Got 20 hours burn-in so far.:veryevil:

post #6364 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttt123 View Post
 

Some theorizing on why the battery can affect the sound....

Disregarding the fact that it does not make obvious sense (which is purely because we do not have the necessary data, or understanding), and looking at the results, what we are seeing is similar to what we would see by cleaning up and improving the power supply on an amplifier.  In that situation, it makes perfect sense, and we can easily accept why the sound is different/improved.  After all, if you have just spent the time and money on building a much better linear supply, with lots of current reserve, high grade capacitors, low noise rectifiers, and sweated all the details, wiring, low noise transformer, etc., you would expect to hear a difference in the SQ.

 

So how does this apply to changing one battery for another in a DAP?

Well, the common thing is that we are changing the power supply.  One speculation is that the protection circuit may be introducing noise into the 5V output.  As there are electronic circuits inline with the output, and able to monitor/control/disconnect the output in case of over current, shorts, etc..  So if there is an electronic circuit inline, and it is introducing noise, impressed onto the 5V output, or Grd, this will cause the DAP digital and analog circuits to waste power, handling the noise, or actually decoding/amplifying the noise, and filtering it out.  Remove the noise, and all of a sudden, the DAP is able to work without wasting power, doing error handling,  or wasting CPU cycles.  The result is more dynamics, detail, staging, bass, etc.  

 

The above came to mind, as I worked on a problem (many years ago) where telephone central office equipment was periodically locking up.  5 pairs of redundant processors would lock up, and after pulling everything apart, inspecting and finding nothing, it would start working normally again, until the next time it happened.  We had already changed the hardware more than once, so we had to look for another cause.  It turned out to be a noisy switching power supply.  The electrolytic filter capacitors had degraded, and was introducing a higher than normal ripple.  We found that about 0.2V of ripple on the 5V output could cause the processors to lock up.  And this is not theory, as we reproduced it in the lab.

 

Since the months we spent on that problem, my eyes were opened to how much impact a noisy supply could have, even though the voltage and current measured fine.  I am stretching to compare this battery situation as a similar situation, but it seems to make sense to me, and would explain how a "simple" battery can affect the SQ in such a drastic manner.  But of course, a battery is no longer just a chemical cell with two leads connected to it, and nothing else....they are much more complicated than that, nowadays.

 

So, that's my contribution to trying to put forward a theory that could explain what we are seeing.  As with all theories, they are just that until proven right or wrong.  But if you don't try to theorize, and trigger other thinking, then the vacuum never gets filled, so I've always believed that speculation is necessary.  Denying a fact that you are seeing because it does not make sense, is a dead end.  And I can say that from a background of spending decades doing troubleshooting on telephone central office switches.


That's an interesting theory - hopefully someone can do some sort of testing in the future and confirm what a lot of people are hearing - who wouldn't want to know for certain that a better battery  results in better sound in portable devices?. However, daring to suggest the possibility of user bias coming into play is a big no-no even though it is reasonably plausible. Theorizing is only accepted in one direction, and to do otherwise results in a lot of "take it to the sound science threads" as I quickly learned. That being said, I hope it is true - the more tweaking options, the better.

post #6365 of 13841

Nonsense. We're all already aware of bias, placebo and wishful thinking. Constantly bringing it up due to ones own personal biases or competitive ownership is fruitless as is questioning what another hears. The way to handle this is to try it yourself. If you don't hear it, I would happily accept that you didn't. If you don't have DX90 and want to deal in generalities, this isn't the thread to be doubting others. Think for a moment about who is really imposing on others in this thread. Those that are listening or those that are theorizing that the ones listening are not hearing what they say they are?

post #6366 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post
 

Nonsense. We're all already aware of bias, placebo and wishful thinking. Constantly bringing it up due to ones own personal biases or competitive ownership is fruitless as is questioning what another hears. The way to handle this is to try it yourself. If you don't hear it, I would happily accept that you didn't. If you don't have DX90 and want to deal in generalities, this isn't the thread to be doubting others. Think for a moment about who is really imposing on others in this thread. Those that are listening or those that are theorizing that the ones listening are not hearing what they say they are?


I haven't questioned anybody, nor have I doubted what anybody has said. All I've done is point out something that is possible. This is a general information thread, so I don't see the harm. If this was a DX90 lover's or impressions thread, then you'd have a point.

post #6367 of 13841

I've been using the GR10 for about a year with my Rockboxed Clip Zip - The sound is transparent with an impressive soundstage considering that these are IEMs. I mostly listen to classical and jazz. If you like a lot of bass, the GR 10 might not be the best choice thought - but for my taste, the bass sound natural.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsix View Post
 

Hi everyone,

 

I've been reading these forums for quite a while and decided to finally register and post. Thanks to all for the wonderful advice given in this very long but very helpful thread. I've purchased the DX90 and I'm delighted with it.

 

I have a question regarding an IEM pairing with the DX90. I have three on my short list:

 

1) Grado GR10
2) NuForce Primo 8
3) Westone W40

 

I'd like to purchase an IEM for wear while on the go with the DX90. My main headphones are currently the Grado RS-1i, and I love the Grado sound. I listen to about 80% classical music and 20% classic rock/folk/etc. My budget for this item is about US$500 or so, but I'd be willing to go a little higher for something truly earth-shattering.

 

I've always used over-ear headphones and I've never purchased an IEM, so this will be a new experience for me. Thanks in advance for your help!  :)

 

 

I also use the Grado GR10 - There was a period where i was a little concerned about a 'lack' of bass although more i think because I had been listening to beyerdynamic 880 cans for a while which have a very different sound!

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I have recently been listening to the Grados again on my burned in dx90 and have been (re) blown away by the quality and extraordinary 'on there on the stage with the musicians' sound which they seem to uniquily seem to exhibit 

To be fair I havent heard many other IEMS but I honestly feel i would be hard pressed to beat the sound of the GR 10's As with the other comment though, these are not IEMS for 'bass heads' but if you enjoy crystal clear treble, mids an wonderfully balanced bass then I would heartfully reccomend them!


Edited by jon parker - 6/25/14 at 4:45am
post #6368 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

The one issue I've had with batteries over the years is that they can sound slow or rounded next to a good linear supply. It can be offset some with a well chosen electrolytic in parallel. It has to do with the power delivery which isn't as fast as a capacitor. The Samsung battery eliminates that sense in the DX90.



 



Really like this addition and find the difference quite noticeable. Makes me wonder what the earlier FW would sound like with it. I'm not going to try since the functionality is so good now but I bet one of the upcoming updates will bring nirvana with a genuine Samsung battery. While I'm a fan, I've said 2 things about the player that aren't complimentary since I've owned it. One is that it sounds phase inverted to me which is a non-issue for most considering that music files and earphones often are as well. The other is that the player has been on the warm side, a little thick. The Samsung battery removes that sense. " src="http://files.head-fi.org/images/smilies/ksc75smile.gif" /> It snaps the player up with more dynamic contrast. While it doesn't radically change the amount of detail, it will make it's excellent level of resolve easily apparent to those that like it more delineated.


 



Could you please link to the Samsung battery, thanks.
post #6369 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublea71 View Post
 


I haven't questioned anybody, nor have I doubted what anybody has said. All I've done is point out something that is possible. This is a general information thread, so I don't see the harm. If this was a DX90 lover's or impressions thread, then you'd have a point.

True, you questioned everyone's. Make sure to do us a service and bring it up in every general info thread you post in.


Edited by goodvibes - 6/25/14 at 6:40am
post #6370 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by wollabilla View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post
 

The one issue I've had with batteries over the years is that they can sound slow or rounded next to a good linear supply. It can be offset some with a well chosen electrolytic in parallel. It has to do with the power delivery which isn't as fast as a capacitor. The Samsung battery eliminates that sense in the DX90.

 

 

 

Really like this addition and find the difference quite noticeable. Makes me wonder what the earlier FW would sound like with it. I'm not going to try since the functionality is so good now but I bet one of the upcoming updates will bring nirvana with a genuine Samsung battery. While I'm a fan, I've said 2 things about the player that aren't complimentary since I've owned it. One is that it sounds phase inverted to me which is a non-issue for most considering that music files and earphones often are as well. The other is that the player has been on the warm side, a little thick. The Samsung battery removes that sense. <img src=

 



Could you please link to the Samsung battery, thanks.


Same as jamoto gave. http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?campid=5337413452&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F121360170339%3FssPageName%3DSTRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT%26_trksid%3Dp3984.m1423.l2648

post #6371 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post
 

True, you questioned everyone's. Make sure to do us a service and bring it up in every general info thread you post in.

Until somebody provides evidence for this claim (and that's all it is at this stage), nobody should feel threatened or offended if somebody says, "gee, maybe this is all in our heads," especially in a general info thread. It is fine and well to cite numbers for the output impedance and power, etc., but as soon as somebody says "hey, are there any numbers supporting the thing about the batteries?", numbers suddenly become a problem. I simply disagree with that line of thinking and I'm not afraid to say it. If what I've said doesn't jive with you, and I'm saying this with peace and love, simply click on "block member."

post #6372 of 13841

Thou shalt not question religious beliefs.;)

post #6373 of 13841

That #s are the only standard of quality? Do you think #s were derived to try and explain what we're hearing or vice versa? That what is significant was determined by listening or that it was an inductive process? Proof was derived by listening in the 1st place and under conditions not as good as what can be achieved today. The #s can always fall to the same questions as listening does. Neither actually disproves the other, especially considering that we may not be measuring the significant trait. When it comes to a dynamic variable load condition like music, it's even more complex. Jamoto and I are not tech illiterate, actually own test kit and have repaired and built circuits. We all wish that it could be as cut and dry as a few #s but it never is.

 

Hearing something is evidence unless you question ones ability or honesty. It's just not sufficient evidence for you. If you've been following, virtually everyone that's tried has come to the same conclusion and those that doubted no longer do after trying. It's been universal. We're not a cult here. You simply see it as us and them.

 

Numbers aren't the problem. It's the assumption that numbers are going to give you a definitive answer that is an issue. Let me help you. It won't measure significantly differently without some very Hi-Tech equipment and test conditions. When those conditions are found, it will be argued that it's too small to hear. It's a circular argument without resolution that destroys good threads. You may ask, then how do we know for sure? Your issue, not those that have listened and if folks buying a $10 spare battery bothers you and is perceived as snake oil, well, we'll survive.

 

 If you've read my posts, I hadn't tried the Samsung until yesterday and have always had some issues with battery power without help sounding slower than a good linear supply. While I've always liked it overall, I have also always said the DX90 leans warm...until now.:smile: I'm not an all good, all bad kind of fan boy. I will now stop addressing and continuing the hearing vs #s topic.


Edited by goodvibes - 6/25/14 at 12:24pm
post #6374 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublea71 View Post
 

Until somebody provides evidence for this claim (and that's all it is at this stage), nobody should feel threatened or offended if somebody says, "gee, maybe this is all in our heads," especially in a general info thread. It is fine and well to cite numbers for the output impedance and power, etc., but as soon as somebody says "hey, are there any numbers supporting the thing about the batteries?", numbers suddenly become a problem. I simply disagree with that line of thinking and I'm not afraid to say it. If what I've said doesn't jive with you, and I'm saying this with peace and love, simply click on "block member."

doublea71, peace.  Yes, it is possible that I am deluding myself, but I don't believe I am, so that is my reality.  It is also possible that your are deluding yourself, with your absolute belief in numbers over subjective listening, but you obviously do not believe that,  and that is your reality.  These can both co-exist, as they do not hurt each other.  And yes, either one can be true, and maybe both are true.  And maybe neither is true.   You can believe in your truths, and I'll believe in my truths.  I won't say you don't know what you are doing, and you don't have to remind me (too often) that I may be wrong.  I freely admit that I may be wrong, though I am very stubborn in my right to be wrong.  Just like you are.  So let's say we are more similar than disimular, just at different stages of life and belief.

 

I'll ascribe to you the role of the slave, who's job is to stand in the chariot of the victorious Roman general, in his victory parade, and tell him "Memento Mori", over and over, to remind him that he is mortal and will die. Yes, it is a thankless job.

 

Another favorite story is Don Quixote/Man of La Mancha.  He goes through life, believing that there is goodness and nobility in everything he sees, even though the world is far from his beliefs, in reality.  But his blind belief makes the people he meets, ashamed of their weaknesses, and wakes in them the idea that they can be more than they are.  And they become better people, through his belief.  So is his delusion the truth, or a lie?  

 

Everybody around him, and his family, and doctor, keep trying to convince Don Quixote that he is not a knight, and that the prostitute is not a princess, and the hovel he is living in is not a castle.  And after much effort that do convince him.  And from that point, he starts to die...

 

So a little delusion is not necessarily a bad thing, and maybe sometimes it is necessary.  But the bottom line is that I choose to believe my delusions, and they make me happy.  Life is too short not to grasp whatever happiness is available, wherever you find it, and however small.

 

As Spock says, "live long, and prosper!"

post #6375 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon parker View Post
 

I've been using the GR10 for about a year with my Rockboxed Clip Zip - The sound is transparent with an impressive soundstage considering that these are IEMs. I mostly listen to classical and jazz. If you like a lot of bass, the GR 10 might not be the best choice thought - but for my taste, the bass sound natural.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsix View Post
 

Hi everyone,

 

I've been reading these forums for quite a while and decided to finally register and post. Thanks to all for the wonderful advice given in this very long but very helpful thread. I've purchased the DX90 and I'm delighted with it.

 

I have a question regarding an IEM pairing with the DX90. I have three on my short list:

 

1) Grado GR10
2) NuForce Primo 8
3) Westone W40

 

I'd like to purchase an IEM for wear while on the go with the DX90. My main headphones are currently the Grado RS-1i, and I love the Grado sound. I listen to about 80% classical music and 20% classic rock/folk/etc. My budget for this item is about US$500 or so, but I'd be willing to go a little higher for something truly earth-shattering.

 

I've always used over-ear headphones and I've never purchased an IEM, so this will be a new experience for me. Thanks in advance for your help!  :)

 

 

I also use the Grado GR10 - There was a period where i was a little concerned about a 'lack' of bass although more i think because I had been listening to beyerdynamic 880 cans for a while which have a very different sound!

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I have recently been listening to the Grados again on my burned in dx90 and have been (re) blown away by the quality and extraordinary 'on there on the stage with the musicians' sound which they seem to uniquily seem to exhibit 

To be fair I havent heard many other IEMS but I honestly feel i would be hard pressed to beat the sound of the GR 10's As with the other comment though, these are not IEMS for 'bass heads' but if you enjoy crystal clear treble, mids an wonderfully balanced bass then I would heartfully reccomend them!

I've had the GR10 for quite a long time now, and it's been my go-to IEM for a large part of that time. It's recently been displaced by a few additions to the collections. One of them (the JVC FX-850) also provided the opportunity to try the JVC Spiral Dots tips on the GR10. All I can say is: to all those that feel that the GR10 are somewhat lacking in bass, switching tips to the JVC spiral dots ones helps, IMHO, quite a lot ;).

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