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post #2596 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by whereas View Post

Burn-in = not real. But this thing should definitely sound leaps and bounds better than an iPod Classic. Just about anything sounds better than an iPod Classic.


Are you sure it's not real? Buy the JVC HA-FXT90 and it will show you that it is undoubtedly real.
post #2597 of 13841

Can we please drop the 'is burn-in real or B$'  debate? (and the same goes for 16/44.1 vs 24/192 etc. etc. etc.)

 

I'm all for free speech and spirited debate, but here is not the appropriate place, as it derails the discussion focused upon the DAP itself.

 

It is nigh-on impossible to conclusively prove either possibility as an absolute irrefutable fact, so just draw your own conclusions, let others draw theirs, and respect each other's differing perspectives. That's life.

 

 

And if you really can't resist flogging a dead horse :deadhorse: then please take the discussion over to the Sound Science section, where there are plenty of like-minded people willing to welcome you with open arms so they can bicker with you 'til the end of time, in ever-decreasing circles of futility.

 

 


 

 

 

 

Back to the DX90 itself; I'm particularly looking forward to hearing listening impressions of the DX90 from owners of the DX100 and X5 - your audience awaits, with baited breath! :popcorn: 

 

 

 

 

.


Edited by Mython - 4/11/14 at 9:37am
post #2598 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilfurbal View Post
 

 

 

My own experiences seem to point to headphone burn in not being real, lol.  I am still using the same headphones I got back in 2009, still going strong, sound the same as I ever recall them sounding which is good.  However that wasn't my test.  My test was that I, fairly recently, picked up a brand new pair of the same headphones.  Stuck them into my DX50 with the same EQ settings, they sound 100% exactly the same.  Exactly.  I was actually surprised by how identical the new sounded right next to the old highly-burned in pair.  Direct a/b comparisons lead me to believe burn in is a mental thing.  To really know for sure you need two pairs of the same headphones.  Burn in one pair, leave the other pair alone.  Do a/b comparisons.  Mine resulted in no change, so I became a believer that burn in is not relevant.  Which is also good, since I feel it should sound optimal out of the box so I can make my decision of whether or not I like the new sound after my brain is done getting use to it.  In the meantime I'll be listening to it directly, not letting it play on its own for a couple days.  

 

I do find that article a pretty good one.  Based on my own experiences, he speaks truth.  I'd prefer to see scientific graphs, if a pair of headphones looks the same on paper before and after burn in then nothing should have changed.  Only pure data can reveal the truth, what anyone thinks they hear is not a proper test, mind has been proven to play tricks on us.  I don't trust my own brain anymore than I would someone else's.  

 

I still don't even know if I can hear differences between 16/44.1 or 24/192 khz.  I like to think I do, that I identify new details and clarity or something that I haven't noticed before.  Then I return to the cd counterpart and hear the new found details the same way, which proved my mind was just looking for something different.  It hasn't found anything concrete.  Right now as would seem I like listening to HD tracks only purely because the numbers and bitrates are higher, so it's better.  :p  Generally consumes too much space though.  In this situation the data on paper actually shows that the HD tracks are better.  Of course they are.  I like to pretend I'm taking advantage of the better quality on the few albums I have that are HD, even if I can't figure out how they're better with my ears.  

 

Hmmm, interesting :)

What headphones are you talking about here?

With the greatest respect you may have answered your own point by stating you cannot hear the diffence between 16/44 and 24/192. This being the case you probably wouldn't be able to appreacite burn in as your ears may not have the capacity to hear these differences. not saying there is anything wrong with you or your hearing! I work with audio so I guess my hearing may be a little more attuned to certain aspects of audio (not saying im better here just maybe more attuned?)

A lot of the improvements in higher res audio / burn in is not always so much an audible phenominon like "oh thats sounds so harsh" [50 hours burn in later] "now there is no harshness" although sometimes it is exactly like that. [for me]

Anyway I notice improvments a lot more in how the audio effects me. Listening to Bob Marley mp3 and then 24/192 the difference is huge - it sounds/feels so much more like you are there expereincing it in person. The quality of all the different instruments and voice sounds a LOT closer to how it would if you were present in the studio - mp3's even cd's rarely if EVER have that effect on me

and this is the main point for me -

What bit depth & sample rate is live audio??

Im sure it is a lot higher than 24/192. Maybe the thing to remember is that the higher these rates go the closer they resemble the original signal and so if you have every heard or played live music that cannot be a bad thing?! and yes there will be some people who cannot hear an audible difference but of course there will be some with exceptional mental facilities of hearing that can and do experience the audibe and effect differences in hiRes audio + burned in headphones - Lucky them !!

@ Lilfurbal - i totally respect your views and experiences though. If you are happy with your equipment & phones then wonderful - anyway its not so much whether people are right or wrong in this matter as we all experience things differently 

post #2599 of 13841

Whoops, yes . . . DX90 Wow eh eh?

post #2600 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon parker View Post
 

 

Hmmm, interesting :)

What headphones are you talking about here?

With the greatest respect you may have answered your own point by stating you cannot hear the diffence between 16/44 and 24/192. This being the case you probably wouldn't be able to appreacite burn in as your ears may not have the capacity to hear these differences. not saying there is anything wrong with you or your hearing! I work with audio so I guess my hearing may be a little more attuned to certain aspects of audio (not saying im better here just maybe more attuned?)

A lot of the improvements in higher res audio / burn in is not always so much an audible phenominon like "oh thats sounds so harsh" [50 hours burn in later] "now there is no harshness" although sometimes it is exactly like that. [for me]

Anyway I notice improvments a lot more in how the audio effects me. Listening to Bob Marley mp3 and then 24/192 the difference is huge - it sounds/feels so much more like you are there expereincing it in person. The quality of all the different instruments and voice sounds a LOT closer to how it would if you were present in the studio - mp3's even cd's rarely if EVER have that effect on me

and this is the main point for me -

What bit depth & sample rate is live audio??

Im sure it is a lot higher than 24/192. Maybe the thing to remember is that the higher these rates go the closer they resemble the original signal and so if you have every heard or played live music that cannot be a bad thing?! and yes there will be some people who cannot hear an audible difference but of course there will be some with exceptional mental facilities of hearing that can and do experience the audibe and effect differences in hiRes audio + burned in headphones - Lucky them !!

@ Lilfurbal - i totally respect your views and experiences though. If you are happy with your equipment & phones then wonderful - anyway its not so much whether people are right or wrong in this matter as we all experience things differently 

 

The same 24/96 file I re-encode to 16/48 sounds the same to me. But the same song from a different CD sounds different. Tells me the difference is in the mastering and not in the bit-rate/sample rate.

 

However, my experience with Beyerdynamic T1 was, it has a very light in bass in terms of volume and depth the first few days I got them. But after a week it got noticeably deeper and bigger and stayed the same ever since.

post #2601 of 13841
Thread Starter 

I am sorry I added anything to the burn in issue here except that iBasso does recommend it. From there please can we stay on track with the DX90. 

 

I got an email that they are shipping today, as per an earlier poster here as well. I look forward to people getting the DX90 in their hand and the music in their head. :^) 

post #2602 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon parker View Post
 

 

Hmmm, interesting :)

What headphones are you talking about here?

With the greatest respect you may have answered your own point by stating you cannot hear the diffence between 16/44 and 24/192. This being the case you probably wouldn't be able to appreacite burn in as your ears may not have the capacity to hear these differences. not saying there is anything wrong with you or your hearing! I work with audio so I guess my hearing may be a little more attuned to certain aspects of audio (not saying im better here just maybe more attuned?)

A lot of the improvements in higher res audio / burn in is not always so much an audible phenominon like "oh thats sounds so harsh" [50 hours burn in later] "now there is no harshness" although sometimes it is exactly like that. [for me]

Anyway I notice improvments a lot more in how the audio effects me. Listening to Bob Marley mp3 and then 24/192 the difference is huge - it sounds/feels so much more like you are there expereincing it in person. The quality of all the different instruments and voice sounds a LOT closer to how it would if you were present in the studio - mp3's even cd's rarely if EVER have that effect on me

and this is the main point for me -

What bit depth & sample rate is live audio??

Im sure it is a lot higher than 24/192. Maybe the thing to remember is that the higher these rates go the closer they resemble the original signal and so if you have every heard or played live music that cannot be a bad thing?! and yes there will be some people who cannot hear an audible difference but of course there will be some with exceptional mental facilities of hearing that can and do experience the audibe and effect differences in hiRes audio + burned in headphones - Lucky them !!

@ Lilfurbal - i totally respect your views and experiences though. If you are happy with your equipment & phones then wonderful - anyway its not so much whether people are right or wrong in this matter as we all experience things differently 

 

Thanks for being civil :D  

 

Everyone's ears, minds, what they think they hear would obviously be different from person to person.  And with that, it's impossible to know that what someone else hears is exactly what we hear.  I don't personally mind what people do, it is based on ones own experiences and if the only one for someone to be happy is to wait for a device to be burned in then they should do what makes them happy.  

 

The headphones that I did this test with are the Klipsch x10's.  While I paid $350 for them at the time they were more new, they now sometimes go for less than $100 on amazon.  My current pair have been through the washing machine, even the drier on the low heat setting without my knowing, have been surviving many years.  They've been through a lot, but even then couldn't identify a single difference with a brand spanking new pair, and I found that pretty cool actually so I gave one pair of the headphones to my brother.  I know what he is hearing :)

 

But I'd be interested if I do stumble across something that may sound different after a burn in phase.  They'll burn in naturally with use anyway.

post #2603 of 13841

I like how most everyone else either did not see or completely ignored the two requests to stop talking about burn-in here in the DX90 thread. Including this reply, the count is up to 3 now.


Mingo sound has the DX90 ready for preorder for HK$2900. More than HK$300 cheaper than ordering direct from iBasso but they'll only be available at the end of the month. It's really a question of whether waiting ~2 weeks is worth saving HK$300.

post #2604 of 13841

The T1's WoW :) I just bought the DT 880's and was surprised at the difference 50 hours made  - Not so much a huge difference in quality but certainly in character , I would have to look up the appropriote words to describe but anyway I was a bit underwhelmed out of the box but could see why people said they were good but then later 'Whooee' I was blown away by these phones

 

To be fair there are so very many variables in equipment/masterings/pressings etc etc etc to scientifically say yeah or nah on topics like these - even the quality of my hearing changes a lot during the day! For some reason 2am finds me having serious audiophile moments where as earlier in the day I was just 'mehhhh' 

i think youre right, it wouldn't neccesarily change the sound that much but perhaps some of the subtle characteristics? - I tend to notice this more with certain set ups - if im using my grado rg10 iems then I notice a lot more of the subtle elements as they are very revealing

 

Im sure the dx90 will sound great but im hoping it works particularly well with my phones !

post #2605 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamato8 View Post

I am sorry I added anything to the burn in issue here except that iBasso does recommend it. From there please can we stay on track with the DX90. 



 



I got an email that they are shipping today, as per an earlier poster here as well. I look forward to people getting the DX90 in their hand and the music in their head. :^) 

 

Waiting patiently for mine... popcorn.gif
Cheers! beerchug.gif
-HK sends
Edited by HK_sends - 4/11/14 at 9:55am
post #2606 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilfurbal View Post
 

 

Thanks for being civil :D  

 

Everyone's ears, minds, what they think they hear would obviously be different from person to person.  And with that, it's impossible to know that what someone else hears is exactly what we hear.  I don't personally mind what people do, it is based on ones own experiences and if the only one for someone to be happy is to wait for a device to be burned in then they should do what makes them happy.  

 

The headphones that I did this test with are the Klipsch x10's.  While I paid $350 for them at the time they were more new, they now sometimes go for less than $100 on amazon.  My current pair have been through the washing machine, even the drier on the low heat setting without my knowing, have been surviving many years.  They've been through a lot, but even then couldn't identify a single difference with a brand spanking new pair, and I found that pretty cool actually so I gave one pair of the headphones to my brother.  I know what he is hearing :)

 

But I'd be interested if I do stumble across something that may sound different after a burn in phase.  They'll burn in naturally with use anyway.

Thanks for that - I have heard a lot about those phones - when money permits I think i will have to try a pair :)


Edited by jon parker - 4/11/14 at 10:02am
post #2607 of 13841

Sorry all to talk about a non-specific topic in a non existant product thread! ahahaha, joking - but not much to say about the dx90 until it arrives....at which point the dx90 appreciation thread will appear and THEN we can fiercely defend the integrity of the thread against all ursurpers 

post #2608 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by HK_sends View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamato8 View Post

I am sorry I added anything to the burn in issue here except that iBasso does recommend it. From there please can we stay on track with the DX90. 



 



I got an email that they are shipping today, as per an earlier poster here as well. I look forward to people getting the DX90 in their hand and the music in their head. :^) 

 

Waiting patiently for mine... popcorn.gif
Cheers! beerchug.gif
-HK sends

Waiting for mine (am not sure about the patiently bit). Hoping it will arrive before Denmark shuts down for 6 days for Easter Wednesday evening but I suspect that is not very likely
post #2609 of 13841

I was only brutal about it because it can spiral rapidly out of control, and become a mud-slinging match. Seen it so many times, and it ruins decent threads.

 

Nothing personal. :beerchug:

post #2610 of 13841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

I was only brutal about it because it can spiral rapidly out of control, and become a mud-slinging match. Seen it so many times, and it ruins decent threads.

 

Nothing personal. :beerchug:

 

Of course, you're quite right :) Thanks my friend, I was being comical with my last post to keep it light and I do respect everyone's views and try to get that across whenever possible. I do appreciate its very difficult when you hold a view that others don't and vice versa :D

Its all good. what's so fundamentally beautiful about this place is that we all go above and beyond to truly enjoy music in the best possible way [in accordance with our own inclinations and personal likes]

*inserts smiley face emoticon back* 

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