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Upgrading from a Sennheiser PC 360

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 

Hi.

 

I know fairly little on this subject, but I'm looking into getting a new pair of headphones. As per the thread title, I currently have a headset, the Sennheiser PC 360 driven by the Asus Xonar DG. I've already been looking at the Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro 250 Ohms and also the DT 990 Pro 250 Ohms. Also very much interested in the Sennheiser HD 598, 600 and 650 - the latter two are a bit higher than my preferred budget, though, and I am unsure as to how much better/different the HD 598 is compared to my PC 360.

 

Copy-paste from my post in the /r/headphones thread that didn't seem to yield any replies.

 

  • Budget: Up to 250€, ~$340 - somewhat flexible but I would like to get an external DAC + Amp in the near future, so keeping the price down a bit would be preferable.

  • Source: Asus Xonar DG

  • Requirements for Isolation: Essentially none. I am fairly sure I very much prefer open headphones.

  • Preferred Type of Headphones: Full-size

  • Preferred tonal balance: Overall balanced, I think

  • Past headphones: Sennheiser PC 360 - it's a headset, but as far as I know, it is essentially an HD 555 or 558 with a mic. Also various cheaper headphones. Examples include some of the cheaper offerings from Sennheiser (HD 200 and tried HD 419 briefly).

  • Preferred music: Post-rock, math rock, classical, ambient, some jazz, nu jazz, some metal

 

As I said, I would like to get an external DAC + Amp in the future seeing as the headphone amp on the Xonar DG only goes as high as to about 150 Ohms (I think? I recall reading that somewhere at least). I've been looking a bit at the Objective 2 ODAC combo and it seems pretty good, but it is also at the more expensive side of things. If you have any suggestions to this as well that'd be great. I would like it to work properly on Linux as well as Windows. Bear in mind that my listed budget is for the headphones only, not headphones + amp.

 

Thanks!

 

some guy with two hands

post #2 of 14

If you like it balanced, the dt 880 might be your choice, since its only slightly bassy. Very natural sounding, but abit "bright" ^^

HD 600 would be pretty neutral, the HD 650 dark sounding.

 

Testing them by yourself is always the best choice, since noone can predict, which one you would like most :) i personally liked my dt 880 alot, also for the build quality

post #3 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by guywithtwohands View Post
 

 

I know fairly little on this subject, but I'm looking into getting a new pair of headphones. As per the thread title, I currently have a headset, the Sennheiser PC 360 driven by the Asus Xonar DG. I've already been looking at the Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro 250 Ohms and also the DT 990 Pro 250 Ohms. Also very much interested in the Sennheiser HD 598, 600 and 650 - the latter two are a bit higher than my preferred budget, though, and I am unsure as to how much better/different the HD 598 is compared to my PC 360.

Budget: Up to 250€, ~$340 - somewhat flexible but I would like to get an external DAC + Amp in the near future, so keeping the price down a bit would be preferable.

Source: Asus Xonar DG

Requirements for Isolation: Essentially none. I am fairly sure I very much prefer open headphones.

Preferred Type of Headphones: Full-size

Preferred tonal balance: Overall balanced, I think

Past headphones: Sennheiser PC 360 - it's a headset, but as far as I know, it is essentially an HD 555 or 558 with a mic. Also various cheaper headphones. Examples include some of the cheaper offerings from Sennheiser (HD 200 and tried HD 419 briefly).

Preferred music: Post-rock, math rock, classical, ambient, some jazz, nu jazz, some metal

As I said, I would like to get an external DAC + Amp in the future seeing as the headphone amp on the Xonar DG only goes as high as to about 150 Ohms (I think? I recall reading that somewhere at least). I've been looking a bit at the Objective 2 ODAC combo and it seems pretty good, but it is also at the more expensive side of things. If you have any suggestions to this as well that'd be great. I would like it to work properly on Linux as well as Windows. Bear in mind that my listed budget is for the headphones only, not headphones + amp.

The PC360 and the HD598/HD558 appear to use the same (50-Ohm) driver.

The DT880 Pro 250-Ohm (225 Euros) would seem like a good upgrade for you.

For now you could just get the EPH-02 (O2) amplifier, 99 GBP, (119 Euros) sold in the UK

and plug the EPH-02 into the Xonar DG.

Sell off your PC360.

post #4 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseth View Post
 

If you like it balanced, the dt 880 might be your choice, since its only slightly bassy. Very natural sounding, but abit "bright" ^^

HD 600 would be pretty neutral, the HD 650 dark sounding.

 

Testing them by yourself is always the best choice, since noone can predict, which one you would like most :) i personally liked my dt 880 alot, also for the build quality

Hmm okay. Unfortunately there are no places nearby that I know of where I can try any of them out :(.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleAngel View Post
 

The PC360 and the HD598/HD558 appear to use the same (50-Ohm) driver.

The DT880 Pro 250-Ohm (225 Euros) would seem like a good upgrade for you.

For now you could just get the EPH-02 (O2) amplifier, 99 GBP, (119 Euros) sold in the UK

and plug the EPH-02 into the Xonar DG.

Sell off your PC360.

Yeah, apparently the PC 360 uses the same driver as the HD 558. Not sure about the HD 598, the specifications are a bit different aside from the impedance.

 

Could you elaborate on why I should pick the DT 880 over the DT 990? Would they work better for my musical preferences? The DT 990 appears to be about 65€ cheaper where I'm looking, but no matter... If I was willing to go a little bit higher on my budget, would it be better for me to get either the HD 600 or 650?


Edited by guywithtwohands - 12/22/13 at 7:07pm
post #5 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by guywithtwohands View Post
 

Hmm okay. Unfortunately there are no places nearby that I know of where I can try any of them out :(.

 

Yeah, apparently the PC 360 uses the same driver as the HD 558. Not sure about the HD 598, the specifications are a bit different aside from the impedance.

 

Could you elaborate on why I should pick the DT 880 over the DT 990? Would they work better for my musical preferences? The DT 990 appears to be about 65€ cheaper where I'm looking, but no matter... If I was willing to go a little bit higher on my budget, would it be better for me to get either the HD 600 or 650?

I'm guessing Sennheiser found it better to do R&D on one driver and use it a lot of different models,

Then R&D a lot of different drivers and then having to keep a stock of all the different drivers.

I think Sennheiser would like to sell you a HD598 (more profit), but would sell you a HD558 just to make the sale.

 

I like the DT990, full bass & full treble, which slightly over shadows the mids, but the mids are clear, I think of them having a "movie theater" like sound, I use my DT990 Premiums 600-Ohm for Blu-ray movies.

Where as the DT880 offer a more balanced sound.

 

Really can not offer any kind of opinion on the HD600/HD650s, but they do have their fans.

post #6 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleAngel View Post
 

I'm guessing Sennheiser found it better to do R&D on one driver and use it a lot of different models,

Then R&D a lot of different drivers and then having to keep a stock of all the different drivers.

I think Sennheiser would like to sell you a HD598 (more profit), but would sell you a HD558 just to make the sale.

 

I like the DT990, full bass & full treble, which slightly over shadows the mids, but the mids are clear, I think of them having a "movie theater" like sound, I use my DT990 Premiums 600-Ohm for Blu-ray movies.

Where as the DT880 offer a more balanced sound.

 

Really can not offer any kind of opinion on the HD600/HD650s, but they do have their fans.

Thanks for the response.

How would you say the DT 880 and 990 compare to the HD 558? I see you have it listed in your signature.

post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by guywithtwohands View Post
 

Thanks for the response.

How would you say the DT 880 and 990 compare to the HD 558? I see you have it listed in your signature.

To me the HD558 is like a "Jack of all trades" works plugged in to anything and fine for music and movies and gaming.

If it was a pupil at school, it would be the straight "B" student.

Using an amplifier is optional, may come across as a little veiled unamped, but using a good amplifier brings out it's best.

Not an overly warm sound, I like to describe it as "functional", it just really depends on the amount of amping.

It's a 50-Ohm headphone that does surprising well plugged into a A/V receiver.

Where as my ($250) 40-Ohm ATH-A900X has issues with my A/V receiver's high impedance headphone output jack.

If all I had was the HD558s, I could get by and not really have anything to complain about.

Having a $300 external DAC/Amp and $500 A/V receiver to drive them helps me get the best out of them.

The only real negative with the HD558 is that it comes stock with a 1/4" 6.35mm plug,

and using the 1/4 female to 1/8 male adapter is functional, it's not that desirable, so spending $20 for the aftermarket cable is worth it.

The over all design (look) has a real appeal to me.

 

The DT880s have a little more life to their sound and probability the best open headphones I have.

Amplifier is required, waste of a lot of cash if not used with an amplifer.

Good balance between bass, mids, treble, does great with any audio you throw at it.

The 600-Ohm Premium version is slightly better then my 250-Ohm Pro version.

As long as I have a good amplifier to drive them, I never think of switching over to another headphone.

A few do think the DT880s are a little bright, but I like to think it just put more "life" into the sound.

 

The DT990s offer more appeal to the bassheads, they just want lots of bass in any audio.

Even thou they are bassy headphones, surround sound gamers still like them.

As the DT990s have recessed vocals, not the best pick for music where vocals are the main desire.

and a waste of cash if bought by someone without a decent headphone amplifier.

 

The DT880 and DT990 are my favorite headphones for use with my receiver, which is the source of audio for my ATT TV and Blu-ray player


Edited by PurpleAngel - 12/23/13 at 12:46pm
post #8 of 14

From what i know, the PC 360 uses the HD 458~ drivers, not the 558. So its basicly a 50-60€~ Headphone + Microphone on it.

 

But even if you just compare the quality:

 

1. http://abload.de/image.php?img=102_07696oucx.jpg

2. http://abload.de/image.php?img=102_077039u7e.jpg

3. http://abload.de/image.php?img=102_0784xxuos.jpg

Left: dt 770

Right: PC 360

post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleAngel View Post
 

To me the HD558 is like a "Jack of all trades" works plugged in to anything and fine for music and movies and gaming.

If it was a pupil at school, it would be the straight "B" student.

Using an amplifier is optional, may come across as a little veiled unamped, but using a good amplifier brings out it's best.

Not an overly warm sound, I like to describe it as "functional", it just really depends on the amount of amping.

It's a 50-Ohm headphone that does surprising well plugged into a A/V receiver.

Where as my ($250) 40-Ohm ATH-A900X has issues with my A/V receiver's high impedance headphone output jack.

If all I had was the HD558s, I could get by and not really have anything to complain about.

Having a $300 external DAC/Amp and $500 A/V receiver to drive them helps me get the best out of them.

The only real negative with the HD558 is that it comes stock with a 1/4" 6.35mm plug,

and using the 1/4 female to 1/8 male adapter is functional, it's not that desirable, so spending $20 for the aftermarket cable is worth it.

The over all design (look) has a real appeal to me.

 

The DT880s have a little more life to their sound and probability the best open headphones I have.

Amplifier is required, waste of a lot of cash if not used with an amplifer.

Good balance between bass, mids, treble, does great with any audio you throw at it.

The 600-Ohm Premium version is slightly better then my 250-Ohm Pro version.

As long as I have a good amplifier to drive them, I never think of switching over to another headphone.

A few do think the DT880s are a little bright, but I like to think it just put more "life" into the sound.

 

The DT990s offer more appeal to the bassheads, they just want lots of bass in any audio.

Even thou they are bassy headphones, surround sound gamers still like them.

As the DT990s have recessed vocals, not the best pick for music where vocals are the main desire.

and a waste of cash if bought by someone without a decent headphone amplifier.

 

The DT880 and DT990 are my favorite headphones for use with my receiver, which is the source of audio for my ATT TV and Blu-ray player

Thanks for the in-depth description, much appreciated.

 

I'm a little concerned about the DT 880 being "bright", whatever that means, but this is probably just because I don't really have much prior experience with higher quality headphones, so I'm just not sure what to expect. Time to find out, I guess :).

 

You recommend I start out by just getting the O2 amplifier and plugging it into my Xonar DG. Would this not mean I would be getting noticeably lesser sound quality than if I were to get the ODAC?

 

Right now I'm just trying to find out whether to go with the 250 ohm or 600 ohm version of the DT 880. I suppose if I'm going to get an amplifier in any case, I might as well go with the 600 ohm, yes? They're pretty much the same price where I live.

It looks like the EPH-O2 won't start shipping out before mid-January, whereas I could probably have the headphones early next week. Do you think the headphone amp. in the Xonar DG is capable of producing somewhat adequate volumes for something rated at 600?

 

Apologies for the many continued questions, but one more about the soundstage... How do you feel about this aspect of the DT 880 in comparison to your HD 558? I like open headphones for their wider soundstages and noticed that the DT 880 is listed as being "semi-open".

 

I'm still trying to decide between DT 880, HD 600 and 650, but I think I have ruled out the 990s as I wouldn't really consider myself much of a 'basshead'.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseth View Post
 

From what i know, the PC 360 uses the HD 458~ drivers, not the 558. So its basicly a 50-60€~ Headphone + Microphone on it.

 

But even if you just compare the quality:

 

1. http://abload.de/image.php?img=102_07696oucx.jpg

2. http://abload.de/image.php?img=102_077039u7e.jpg

3. http://abload.de/image.php?img=102_0784xxuos.jpg

Left: dt 770

Right: PC 360

Interesting. Are you sure this is the case? I can't find anywhere where this is mentioned. I did however just check behind the driver in my PC 360; no piece of black tape like in the HD 558, so there's that... I can't find any info whatsoever on the HD 458, was it discontinued many years ago?

post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by guywithtwohands View Post
Interesting. Are you sure this is the case? I can't find anywhere where this is mentioned. I did however just check behind the driver in my PC 360; no piece of black tape like in the HD 558, so there's that... I can't find any info whatsoever on the HD 458, was it discontinued many years ago?

Not 100%. i dont even know if its 458, or 448, but from what i read from alot, it should be a 4xx series in there.

Cant really believe its a 558 when it costs 125€ here, while the PC 360 costs 165€. That price wouldnt be that typical, if the MMX 300 has double costs from the dt 770~.

So i think, its a cheaper 4xx driver, a microphone, so its enough profit for Sennheiser.

 

At least, its a rumor, with the 448.. Maybe it was the PC 350, and the 360 really uses (parts of) the drivers from the 558. But that would surprise me.

post #11 of 14
Thread Starter 

Okay, disregard my last post partly... I looked around a bit and noticed that I can actually get the 250 ohm version of the DT 880 a bit cheaper than the 600 ohm.

This led me to take another look at amplifiers (and DACs), and now I'm pretty set on the Fiio E10. Supposedly it'll work quite nicely with the 250 ohm version of the DT 880.

 

Now, is there any particular reason for the DT 990 being upwards of 70€, $~90 cheaper than the DT 880? From what I'm reading the main difference is just that the 990 has boosted bass and treble whereas the 880 does not.

 

But for now I'm pretty close to just grabbing the DT 880 250 Ohm and the Fiio E10. I'm just curious as to whether it's actually worth the extra money compared to the 990.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkseth View Post
 

Not 100%. i dont even know if its 458, or 448, but from what i read from alot, it should be a 4xx series in there.

Cant really believe its a 558 when it costs 125€ here, while the PC 360 costs 165€. That price wouldnt be that typical, if the MMX 300 has double costs from the dt 770~.

So i think, its a cheaper 4xx driver, a microphone, so its enough profit for Sennheiser.

 

At least, its a rumor, with the 448.. Maybe it was the PC 350, and the 360 really uses (parts of) the drivers from the 558. But that would surprise me.

Well, the PC 360 and HD 558 do look quite similar in terms of drivers. Even the specifications are exactly the same IIRC. I found this post of someone claiming to have called Sennheiser to be told that the drivers are almost identical.

post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by guywithtwohands View Post
 

Thanks for the in-depth description, much appreciated.

 

I'm a little concerned about the DT 880 being "bright", whatever that means, but this is probably just because I don't really have much prior experience with higher quality headphones, so I'm just not sure what to expect. Time to find out, I guess :).

 

You recommend I start out by just getting the O2 amplifier and plugging it into my Xonar DG. Would this not mean I would be getting noticeably lesser sound quality than if I were to get the ODAC?

 

Right now I'm just trying to find out whether to go with the 250 ohm or 600 ohm version of the DT 880. I suppose if I'm going to get an amplifier in any case, I might as well go with the 600 ohm, yes? They're pretty much the same price where I live.

It looks like the EPH-O2 won't start shipping out before mid-January, whereas I could probably have the headphones early next week. Do you think the headphone amp. in the Xonar DG is capable of producing somewhat adequate volumes for something rated at 600?

 

Apologies for the many continued questions, but one more about the soundstage... How do you feel about this aspect of the DT 880 in comparison to your HD 558? I like open headphones for their wider soundstages and noticed that the DT 880 is listed as being "semi-open".

 

I'm still trying to decide between DT 880, HD 600 and 650, but I think I have ruled out the 990s as I wouldn't really consider myself much of a 'basshead'.

 

Interesting. Are you sure this is the case? I can't find anywhere where this is mentioned. I did however just check behind the driver in my PC 360; no piece of black tape like in the HD 558, so there's that... I can't find any info whatsoever on the HD 458, was it discontinued many years ago?

I do not think the DT880s are overly bright myself.

I was saying to use the Xonar DG for budget reasons, not audio quality reasons (I'm sure the ODAC is better).

If the 250 and 600 are roughly the same price, might as well get the 600.

The Xonar DG will not drive 600-Ohm headphones.

post #13 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleAngel View Post
 

I do not think the DT880s are overly bright myself.

I was saying to use the Xonar DG for budget reasons, not audio quality reasons (I'm sure the ODAC is better).

If the 250 and 600 are roughly the same price, might as well get the 600.

The Xonar DG will not drive 600-Ohm headphones.

Oh okay.

What's your take on the 880 being noticeably more expensive than the 990s (my last post)?

 

Thanks.

post #14 of 14

The dt 770/990 Pros have an "older" construction.

DT 880 PRO + Edition, and DT 770/990 Edition have a newer construction, and abit better materials

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