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The State of Flagships - Ranked And Graded Via Measurements - Page 3

post #31 of 46

The go-no go guage method is a fail in this context.

One headphone that measures 5.1 out of 10 is a pass whereas one that measures 4.9 is a fail.

 

Not really a valid system in this implementation.

 

The go-no go guage system has it's places, but not here.

post #32 of 46

From what I can tell, I don't think he has even listened to all the headphones in question, but is window shopping so to speak to determine his next purchase based on graphs. That would be a fail all around IMO if i am right.

post #33 of 46

Enjoyed reading it and appreciate the effort put in. Well done!

 

However :D I had to stop reading after the both the K701 and DT880 scored a 'D' These are two of the most neutral headphones in the business. All you have to do is listen to them to find this out. Especialy the AKG - its as flat as a particularly flat pancake. And for the K712 (which has a 3 db bass increase added for modern listeners) to score higher with better bass..! Better because it is now emphasized? The 701 has very flat/neutral bass in balance with the rest of its FR. Hmmm.. Also the K701 has a very famous 2khz resonance but no mention of this. But there is a mention of this with the K712 which has been documented many times as having far less a peak here. This is where I couldn't take it seriously anymore. 

 

Good food for a debate though :) 

 

Shame the HD600 isn't there...

post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post
 

However :D I had to stop reading after the both the K701 and DT880 scored a 'D' These are two of the most neutral headphones in the business.

K701 and DT880 neutral? Plllllease :rolleyes:

post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dukeskd View Post
 

K701 and DT880 neutral? Plllllease :rolleyes:

Yuuup :)

 

Both are more neutral than the HD800. Speaking purely from a frequency point of view, they both have flatter responses and you can hear this when you use your ears too. The Senn's have too much of a dip in the upper mids in contrast to the elevated 6k peak, and bass. This is more colour than both of the lower end cans. The upper mids is where any harshness or rough edges are picked up in the recording. But this is what makes the HD800 so easy to listen to, even though it has emphasized treble. 

 

This is in relative terms of neutrality being flat. As opposed to subjective 'what a concert sounds like'. Both of the lower end cans would do a better job of mixing imo. The Senn's of course are better for listening :)

post #36 of 46

Ok DT880 600ohm is the more neutral of the Beyer lineup including the T1. The K701 is not neutral sounding, another thing that determines how headphones are measured is amplification, you can't expect to plug and play a 300-600ohm flagship into a CMOY and expect to please both subjectively and objectively?

 

I remember when Tyll assessed the Abyss and it's measurement was absolutely woeful (for the given price - unacceptable). There was a comment made by Joe from JPS to Tyll to try another amp......

post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post
 

...

 

I remember when Tyll assessed the Abyss and it's measurement was absolutely woeful (for the given price - unacceptable). There was a comment made by Joe from JPS to Tyll to try another amp......

 

It is not well to speak ill (objectively) of Abyss (lol) 
In France it is not forgiven ... 

post #38 of 46

Also, 'when you look into the Abyss, the Abyss also looks into you.' :eek:

 

According to Nietzche anyways. 

post #39 of 46

Good :)

 

This headphone is quite disturbing because it still full of mysteries and it escapes to rational science ...

post #40 of 46

A headphone which only costs $4k with $1.5k cables great. I'm sure people will learn with a bit of common sense that expensive = doesn't equal the best. 

 

A few examples: Most expensive car in the world is some old Mercedes Benz dipped in gold limited edition around $6.5-8mil, but the Veyron is the otherwise best car (speed, engine block size, design and price) available. Also limited run's each year so don't expect these to be pumped out like your typical Fords, Toyota's, BMW's etc.

 

Goldmund a Swiss high-end audio company manufactures there own CD/DVD/SACD spinners as well as other fancy stuff such as $180k turn tables, they announced one of there DVD players as the most expensive available back in 2007-2008 $8-11k. Till one person ripped it apart and found it using nothing more than a $350 Pioneer DVD player, everything was identical except Goldmund put the Pioneer in a fancier case and replaced the transformer with a torodial, they got caught stealing from the cookie jar, now these days you don't anything new or interesting from Goldmund because they have scammed and lied to the public. Countless of other high-end companies I can go forth naming.

 

People bitch about manufacturers charging/ripping us consumers off for too little granted, it's the same people feeding these troll companies. People need to wake the fk up and have some common sense and logic slapped into them. We're going to end up where $8-10k headphones and $15k amp's will be the norm because companies *cough cough* will take advantage with those that like to spend money on hi-fi.

 

Oh and I forgot about the amount of shills 6moon's has gone through with there reviews folks like Srajan are absolutely clueless with what they review - seriously PRAT? lol :rolleyes:

 

Nobody to blame but ourselves.

 

/rant.


Edited by DefQon - 1/23/14 at 11:30pm
post #41 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

 - seriously PRAT? lol :rolleyes:

 

Nobody to blame but ourselves.

 

/rant.

 

I still have yet to understand wtf that is

post #42 of 46

It means that when the shiny new product presses the right button in our psyche, logic goes out the window and desirability climbs up with the price tag.

post #43 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post
  Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

A headphone which only costs $4k with $1.5k cables great. I'm sure people will learn with a bit of common sense that expensive = doesn't equal the best. 

 

A few examples: Most expensive car in the world is some old Mercedes Benz dipped in gold limited edition around $6.5-8mil, but the Veyron is the otherwise best car (speed, engine block size, design and price) available. Also limited run's each year so don't expect these to be pumped out like your typical Fords, Toyota's, BMW's etc.

 

Goldmund a Swiss high-end audio company manufactures there own CD/DVD/SACD spinners as well as other fancy stuff such as $180k turn tables, they announced one of there DVD players as the most expensive available back in 2007-2008 $8-11k. Till one person ripped it apart and found it using nothing more than a $350 Pioneer DVD player, everything was identical except Goldmund put the Pioneer in a fancier case and replaced the transformer with a torodial, they got caught stealing from the cookie jar, now these days you don't anything new or interesting from Goldmund because they have scammed and lied to the public. Countless of other high-end companies I can go forth naming.

 

People bitch about manufacturers charging/ripping us consumers off for too little granted, it's the same people feeding these troll companies. People need to wake the fk up and have some common sense and logic slapped into them. We're going to end up where $8-10k headphones and $15k amp's will be the norm because companies *cough cough* will take advantage with those that like to spend money on hi-fi.

 

Oh and I forgot about the amount of shills 6moon's has gone through with there reviews folks like Srajan are absolutely clueless with what they review - seriously PRAT? lol :rolleyes:

 

Nobody to blame but ourselves.

 

/rant.

 

Great! Superb!

post #44 of 46

Absolute waste of time.

If we are all robot and is designing audio system which require absolute precision there might be some merrit to this paper, otherwise what is the point of all this metrics.

Also it is implying these so call imperfection are undesirable. Said who?

Ultimately this is a very subjective hobby, and we all have different level of hearding and taste, that can make the so call imperfection much more desirable to a large number people. These systems are designed for human, if you take the human away from the measurement than in my opinion you are missing the point.

This approach is like saying this is the scientifically best looking piece of artwork. It does not make much sense.


Edited by rx79ez08 - 1/24/14 at 8:27pm
post #45 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post
 

From what I can tell, I don't think he has even listened to all the headphones in question, but is window shopping so to speak to determine his next purchase based on graphs. That would be a fail all around IMO if i am right.

He mentioned that the ESP950's measurements were "rosier" than everyone else's measurements, which implies that he has measured these headphones himself.

 

I understand that measurements aren't everything, but audio equipment reviews have always been too subjective for my liking (not to mention overly positive and enthusiastic), so its important to put some proper machine-like objectivity back into reviews. If an $1k< headphone has ridiculous distortion in the bass and is heavily under-engineered in some way, I need to know about it.

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