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DigiZoid ZO FS & ZO FS+ (a.k.a. ZO3) Updates & Discussion Thread - Page 11

post #151 of 579

Comparing the specs to an E12...does it stand up?

 

E12:

- Higher max input

- Unknown input impedance

- Lower output impedance

- Higher max output voltage

- Higher power output

- Unknown attenuation

- Half the price of the ZO FS

 

ZO FS:

- Higher bass gain

- Higher treble gain

- Higher max current output (E12 unknown ohm rating)

 

To me, it looks like it doesn't even compare to the E12, but what do the AMP experts say? It also looks like it was just a ZO2.3 improvement, as the spec sheet itself shows no significantly new features, but perhaps the FS+ is the one with all of that.

post #152 of 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by xskugga View Post

...

 

To me, it looks like it doesn't even compare to the E12, but what do the AMP experts say? It also looks like it was just a ZO2.3 improvement, as the spec sheet itself shows no significantly new features, but perhaps the FS+ is the one with all of that.


First of, you really can't tell anything by those spec. Plus, ZO3 is not meant to be treated like a normal amp.

post #153 of 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 


First of, you really can't tell anything by those spec. Plus, ZO3 is not meant to be treated like a normal amp.


Yes, I believe you can. It may not make or break the power of the amp...but it certainly does mean something.

post #154 of 579

I see a ZO FS and an FS+, the site describes the latter as: "ZO FS+ includes a secondary AD8397-based amplifier, which allows you to seamlessly switch between SmartVektor FullSpec and transparent amplification."

 

HmMMMm.

post #155 of 579

Great looking specs. I wonder if they are the specs from the components, or measured.

post #156 of 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by xskugga View Post
 


Yes, I believe you can. It may not make or break the power of the amp...but it certainly does mean something.

 

For measurement to mean something between them, both amps need to be measured under similar conditions. We do not known that here and it will be too naive to assume they are. So no, those spec really doesn't tell us much.

post #157 of 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 

 

For measurement to mean something between them, both amps need to be measured under similar conditions. We do not known that here and it will be too naive to assume they are. So no, those spec really doesn't tell us much.


No they don't. Conditions are irrelevant as they're both aiming for the best that they can get, that means that whatever specs they top out at is what they top out at. If they're tested in the same exact conditions the performance will not change, for example if they're testing max power output the ZO FS will top out at 550mW at 8 ohms and go no further (excluding pushing it past the safe point) no matter what conditions you put it under. The only real difference the condition at which they're being used at would change is how the headphone sounds. So yes, the specs say something about the amp, otherwise...why would they even bother telling us? Regardless, the E12 seems to be a more powerful amp and the ZO FS seems to be a more fully featured amp.

post #158 of 579

Guess we'll agree to disagree then. I won't take such things on their face value myself.


Edited by ClieOS - 6/14/14 at 10:13pm
post #159 of 579

xskugga, the selling point of the ZO is their proprietary technology they've patented, the SmartVektor tech. SmartVektor isn't just a fancy name for "countour level" (bass/treble) adjustment, it's something they do in a circuitry / analog way which is applied once the signal passes through the ZO, hence the ZOfs+ will have a different optional path that DOESN'T run through this config and work more like a traditional amp so you can compare its effect or well just use it both ways whichever you may prefer. I'm a hobby mastering engineer so I'd need the ZOfs+ version in order to evaluate how it sounds with SmartVektor disabled for a wider perspective, ensuring it sounds good for also people without this special config.  
 

I personally like the SmartVektor sound so much that I stopped looking at other amps because of it, it's a kind of colorisation to the sound. The SmartVektor config's special suit isn't quite transparency, but what it gets you is a bolder "bigger", more speaker-like sound. It doesn't only do stuff to bass, pretty much the whole range is altered somehow, it's really difficult to explain. I switched to headphones because of privacy, I did miss the more fullbodied, weightier sound of speakers though not because of bigger drivers having better bass capability but in general, any instruments, seemed generally weightier. Then I discovered some smart ways to EQ with a 3rd party soundcard driver set (kX Audio drivers for the good ol SoundBlaster Audigy cards) which worked pretty different and the EQ was speaking on the hardware level directly and found a way with this + some other plugin to make the sound "fatter"/bolder. Time went on, I discovered ZO1 and fell in love with the sound, it provided me an enhanced and refined effect I did in the software way. 

ZO isn't for everyone but it's a special gadget that requires personal evaluation, don't stare blindly on the specs since that's just half of the package, the specs can't tell how this SmartVektor effect sounds like.


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 6/14/14 at 10:51pm
post #160 of 579
I agree with ClieOS. Listening is very subjective. A spec of an amplifier does not tell how well an amp perform. They only tell very small part of it. I used to thought more power = better sound but I found I was wrong. O2 measures well if anything.
post #161 of 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post
 

xskugga, the selling point of the ZO is their proprietary technology they've patented, the SmartVektor tech. SmartVektor isn't just a fancy name for "countour level" (bass/treble) adjustment, it's something they do in a circuitry / analog way which is applied once the signal passes through the ZO, hence the ZOfs+ will have a different optional path that DOESN'T run through this config and work more like a traditional amp so you can compare its effect or well just use it both ways whichever you may prefer. I'm a hobby mastering engineer so I'd need the ZOfs+ version in order to evaluate how it sounds with SmartVektor disabled for a wider perspective, ensuring it sounds good for also people without this special config.  
 

I personally like the SmartVektor sound so much that I stopped looking at other amps because of it, it's a kind of colorisation to the sound. The SmartVektor config's special suit isn't quite transparency, but what it gets you is a bolder "bigger", more speaker-like sound. It doesn't only do stuff to bass, pretty much the whole range is altered somehow, it's really difficult to explain. I switched to headphones because of privacy, I did miss the more fullbodied, weightier sound of speakers though not because of bigger drivers having better bass capability but in general, any instruments, seemed generally weightier. Then I discovered some smart ways to EQ with a 3rd party soundcard driver set (kX Audio drivers for the good ol SoundBlaster Audigy cards) which worked pretty different and the EQ was speaking on the hardware level directly and found a way with this + some other plugin to make the sound "fatter"/bolder. Time went on, I discovered ZO1 and fell in love with the sound, it provided me an enhanced and refined effect I did in the software way. 

ZO isn't for everyone but it's a special gadget that requires personal evaluation, don't stare blindly on the specs since that's just half of the package, the specs can't tell how this SmartVektor effect sounds like.

 

I mentioned that the ZO FS is best in features and that's about it, so I understand what you're saying. However, the extra technology going into something does not mean it's more valuable. That's like saying a computer with an Intel Pentium processor, integrated graphics, and other low end hardware that has a lot of good software is worth as much as a computer with very high end specs and not as much good software...that's would be ridiculous, it's the same situation here. I also have no doubts that this will sound very good, but it is not worth anywhere near what it is priced at...especially since the SmartVektor feature is not new.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillsonChang007 View Post

I agree with ClieOS. Listening is very subjective. A spec of an amplifier does not tell how well an amp perform. They only tell very small part of it. I used to thought more power = better sound but I found I was wrong. O2 measures well if anything.

 

That's not what ClieOS is saying, he's saying the specs don't matter period. I mentioned that they do matter as they establish a basis in regards to performance, but how headphones will sound can only really be determined by actually using the amp. If specs really don't matter, then why does technology perform differently?

post #162 of 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by xskugga View Post

 

That's not what ClieOS is saying, he's saying the specs don't matter period. I mentioned that they do matter as they establish a basis in regards to performance, but how headphones will sound can only really be determined by actually using the amp. If specs really don't matter, then why does technology perform differently?

 

No, I am not.

 

I was under the impression that you were trying to compare the spec of ZO3 vs. E12 to determine which is better, in which I pointed out that the limited information and detail on the ZO3's published spec so far doesn't tell us much in such comparison, nor does it be enough to make a informed judgement on which is cleaner better. I am not generalize that spec and measurement have not value in judging any amps' performance, as I personally measure all the amps I have reviewed - I am just saying what is available on the ZO3 right now is clearly not enough to form a basis of comparison, which is what you were trying to establish. You can measure the performance of a Lamborghini on a stretch of road in the UK and then measure the performance of a Ferrari on another stretch of road in the USA - the result will be just as incomparable as the ZO3 vs. E12, because the weather and the road condition will affect the performance of the cars. Same principle applies to ZO2 vs. E12, hence my early reply that you really can't tell much by looking on those spec. It is exactly because that spec and measurement are important that we should treat them much carefully before drawing any conclusion out of them.


Edited by ClieOS - 6/15/14 at 2:24am
post #163 of 579

One thing that I like straight away is that you can boost bass frequencies all the way down to 25HZ, Treble eq is a nice addition too. Unfortunately my estimated costs are £155 excluding import tax etc which could be over £30 :(

 

Don't even know if this will be available from uk retailers such as Amazon/Advanced Mp3 Players. 


Edited by zaim - 6/15/14 at 9:21am
post #164 of 579

Just a headsup, the chat session with the founder & engineer Paul Berg is about to start https://www.facebook.com/digizoid

post #165 of 579
Thread Starter 

Hello all!

So first of all, I'd like to answer phrosty:

Quote:
Originally Posted by phrosty View Post
 

Great looking specs. I wonder if they are the specs from the components, or measured.

 

These specs are measured directly from our engineering sample, and not from the components.

 

 

This second part comes directly from ZO's creator, Paul:

 

 

My philosophy on comparing audio products:

 

Specs are a reasonable starting point for beginning a comparison between audio products, but they are only one piece of the puzzle. Consider all of your wants, needs, and desires, and correspondingly the relevant factors associated with a given product, then obtain as much information as feasible before making a decision. Not being impetuous might save you regret, frustration, and money, not to mention ending up with a product that looks good on paper but in the end only looks good on paper. Personally, I’ve sampled, tested, and listened to thousands of audio components. To construct an audio product based on component specs alone does not guarantee good quality sound. Its not only about specs but about values, materials, compatibility, and proper integration. That’s what makes the difference.

 

Here is an analogy I like to use:

 

The recipe for an excellent audio device is very much like a recipe for an exceptional culinary dish.  Use all the right ingredients, proportion them in the right amounts, combine them in the right order, and include that special something  which gives the dish its unique character. When it comes to food it’s about how it tastes and when it comes to audio it’s about how it sounds. Ever been to restaurant where the menu described a dish in a way that made you salivate with anticipation, but actually tasted like something from the garbage can? It’s no different with audio devices. So, just because one recipe says it contains more special spices (e.g.  higher output voltage etc.) doesn’t guarantee a better taste (or a better sound), and quite possibly it may be just the thing that spoils the soup.

 

At digiZoid, we’ve spent years selecting and combining just the right components to achieve the best attainable sound possible. In addition, we developed and patented our “special something” that delivers sound with unique character only attainable with our products.

 

 We believe in and stand behind our recipe for excellent audio.

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