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The best headphones in terms of dynamics - Page 2

post #16 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by brat View Post

What headphones have you compared them to?
It was 3or 4 years ago. At that time the HD650 driven by a WA3 were clearly more dynamic. The HE5-LE were very good too, while the Beyers i tried were similar to the K701. After that i've switched to STAX (if you mainly listen to classic you should do it too)
I agree with you about the Lambda: nice headphones but a bit flat. The new STAX range (x07) is VERY different from the past. The 507 is great: excellent dynamics, very good bass with good puch and easy to drive (ie: you won't need a BHSE). Some say they are bright, but has never been the case for me, I found the DT880 way brighter for example. It's a different 'brightness' because it's clear from distortion.
post #17 of 70
Thread Starter 

HD800 is better than the audezes in macrodinamics but still not as "emotional" as K701. It can be heard with any orchestral music.

I don' understand how the bass quality/slam determines the dynamics. You need dynamic capabilities even for a well recorded violin solo.

post #18 of 70

If bass quality or slam doesn't determine dynamics, then what does?  What are these dynamic capabilities you speak of?  

 

If you think the HD800 has more macrodynamics than the audeze and prefer the AKG over all of the headphones you tried for 'dynamics,' then I'm thinking you're just after a bright headphone in general.

post #19 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post
 

If bass quality or slam doesn't determine dynamics, then what does?  What are these dynamic capabilities you speak of?  

 

If you think the HD800 has more macrodynamics than the audeze and prefer the AKG over all of the headphones you tried for 'dynamics,' then I'm thinking you're just after a bright headphone in general.

Let me summarize: Bass quality determines macrodynamics. LCD-2 are the bassiest of my headphones and should have most of it. But I find two brighter (compared to LCD-2) headphones more capable in this area, so I must look for even brighter headphones...

Which is determinative for macrodynamics: bass or treble (brightness)?:confused_face_2:

post #20 of 70
I don't understand what we're talking about? Bass? Slam? Dynamics? These are very different attributes of musical reproduction!! Dynamics determined by bass quantity? By slam? Do you think Beethoven knew about bass slam when marked a passage as fortissimo?
post #21 of 70

Typically bass is the region that's most prone to high amounts of THD that would otherwise smear the region and make it one-notish, which can affect dynamics.  The audeze bass goes endlessly low and with really low thd.

 

Also consider many of the highest peaks in a classical recording are from percussive elements.  

 

 

 

In my experiences most any headphone, assuming it has the power to reach high dbs with low distortion, has good macrodynamics.  I've never heard a headphone magically get louder than another during loud passages of a classical recording.  Microdynamics are a different story though.  That's where mushy sounding lower fidelity headphones start showing a weakness compared to ones like the HD800.

post #22 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

 I've never heard a headphone magically get louder than another during loud passages of a classical recording.

Maybe you should listen more carefully. :) Something's wrong with this bass/treble/macrodynamics theory. How does it explains bigger macrodynamic amplitudes in a violin solo with K701 than with HD800 which I find to be brighter?


Edited by brat - 12/18/13 at 11:26am
post #23 of 70

Maybe you just had the volume higher with the AKG.  :)

 

:)

post #24 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by realmassy View Post

I don't understand what we're talking about? Bass? Slam? Dynamics? These are very different attributes of musical reproduction!! Dynamics determined by bass quantity? By slam? Do you think Beethoven knew about bass slam when marked a passage as fortissimo?

It's TMRaven's theory.

post #25 of 70
I think the dynamic range of a violin is about 30db: which means a fortissimo will be 30db louder than a pianissimo. That's dynamics, no bass, treble or midrange involved as brat has pointed out. If you ofetn reach the pot to adjust the volume then there are good chances the system is able to reproduce the dynamic range, because the louder passage will be too loud as you've adjusted the volume based on the quiter passages. Obviously that doesn't make much sense if you compare to a live event as you can't turn the volume up :-)
post #26 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post
 

Just because its bass is very well controlled and has a good amount of slam when called for.  No other headphone really gives as much of a dynamic and controlled bass as the Audeze.

 

HD800 is real nice for showcasing subtle differences in dynamics within an instrument's sound, but then again so are the LCDs.

 

If you didn't find the HD800 or LCD2 more dynamic then I don't really know what you're looking for.

+1 :D 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by realmassy View Post

I don't understand what we're talking about? Bass? Slam? Dynamics? These are very different attributes of musical reproduction!! Dynamics determined by bass quantity? By slam? Do you think Beethoven knew about bass slam when marked a passage as fortissimo?
 
Beethoven was deaf & a bit craycray, soo probably..... no. or maybee yes? dude was a musical genius afterall
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by realmassy View Post

I think the dynamic range of a violin is about 30db: which means a fortissimo will be 30db louder than a pianissimo. That's dynamics, no bass, treble or midrange involved as brat has pointed out. If you ofetn reach the pot to adjust the volume then there are good chances the system is able to reproduce the dynamic range, because the louder passage will be too loud as you've adjusted the volume based on the quiter passages. Obviously that doesn't make much sense if you compare to a live event as you can't turn the volume up :-)
 
Makes sense. tho you can totally turn the volume up at live events by moving from the noisebleed area to right in front of the stage! :)

Edited by money4me247 - 12/18/13 at 2:33pm
post #27 of 70
I can understand the frustration about the lack of dynamics of audio playback system vs. the real thing.
Last night, after coming back from nutcracker ballet, I listened to the same piece again at home and, while totally enjoyable, the magic of the concert really wasn't there anymore...

One place where it did not fall too much behind was the sense of space. For live recordings, it does seem proper mic placement and artful stereo down mixing goes a long way toward a realistic staging, even with supposedly hopeless headphones.

Another place that's really nailed is the tonality / texture of instruments regardless of the register they play in. As usual though, recordings are so much more detailed than the real event with the help of near field mics. Even though we were only few rows of the pit, there's so much non direct energy, the highs frequencies quickly get absorbed. Nobody would believe a home recording sounding that tamed down in the highs can be fidele to the real thing. To me, many classical recordings sound like if I was at the place of the conductor + middle of the hall at the same time so I get both direct and reverberant field in highly delineated fashion.

The one place where I felt my rig fell apart is the fortissimo indeed. I am so used to sound compression in the forte that I was surprised at the concert lol wink.gif. Coming back home, certainly I could not represent the sheer dynamic range I heard at the venue.
Now, I have my hope that this actually not so much a transducer issue than it is a fault from the amplifier. All is good and well with low level signals but things fall apart in the demanding passages.

As such, to the op, I would also recommend exploring the source and amplifier limitations besides incriminating the phones exclusively.

For the staxes sounding flat, this is a stereotype that has long lived. As mentionned above, the latest generation models have much increased apparent dymamics, much easier to drive actually, to the expense of sounding forward / bright to those used to the older warmer voiced models. Tonality, resolution, apparent dynamics and imaging are somewhat interrelated and you typically must strike a balance between the different attributes. This is where it becomes an art of designing headphones rather than mere science imo...

Arnaud
post #28 of 70

Brat have you compared the K701 to the older AKG K501? Might be worth a try.


Edited by Phil - 12/21/13 at 4:45pm
post #29 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post

As such, to the op, I would also recommend exploring the source and amplifier limitations besides incriminating the phones exclusively.

For the staxes sounding flat, this is a stereotype that has long lived. As mentionned above, the latest generation models have much increased apparent dymamics, much easier to drive actually, to the expense of sounding forward / bright to those used to the older warmer voiced models. Tonality, resolution, apparent dynamics and imaging are somewhat interrelated and you typically must strike a balance between the different attributes. This is where it becomes an art of designing headphones rather than mere science imo...

Arnaud

I'm not complaining about lack of dynamics in my system but asking for opinions about headphones with great macrodynamics.

And before I experienced it, I've never heard about bad macrodynamics with staxes. But it was one of my first impressions - they just are flat, at least with SS amps (SRM-727 before and now KGSS).

post #30 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by brat View Post

I'm not complaining about lack of dynamics in my system but asking for opinions about headphones with great macrodynamics.
And before I experienced it, I've never heard about bad macrodynamics with staxes. But it was one of my first impressions - they just are flat, at least with SS amps (SRM-727 before and now KGSS).
The old STAX serie didn't sound right with symphonic music, according to some of my friends. I only listened to the Lambdas, and despite being accurate and timbrically correct was flat, as you said.
You won't find many complaining about it, because I haven't found many classical music lover in the huge Stax thread here on head-fi, or at least if there are they are not writing much. Most of the guys seem to listen to rock, jazz and even metal. The latter probably sounds good on STAX because of the fast transients, but definitely dynamics are not a requirement.
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