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Kumitate (くみたて) Lab: A Triumph and Celebration of DIY - Impressions Thread - Page 4post #46 of 1727/1/14 at 6:51am
Head-Fi's Best Sellerspost #47 of 1727/1/14 at 7:42amPrettttttyyy awesome. Gonna be on the look out for TwonQS' impressions.
TwonQY - didn't you use to lust over the C435? Is your Kumitate something that resembled that phone's sig?post #48 of 1727/2/14 at 2:44am
Oh good news, maybe it can help for worldwide orders and all.
I am a diehard ciem guy but maybe I would like to try some universals that looks like ciems. It could be a good start. Still waiting for TG335DW thoughpost #49 of 1727/2/14 at 6:24pmQuote:
I think the original intent behind my order was to replicate the C435 in some ways - add a CI-22955. He later recommended adding an 3300 instead, but also suggested adding two WBFKs to fix the TWFK phase problem. Later on when he had the items in hand he decided to add a 3200 only and forgo the WBFKs, as he stated the 3200 fixed the TWFK dip that came about with the phase mismatch.
I have them in hand right now and if I find a camera, I will take some pictures. However I think the pictures he took will look much better than anything I take.
Full impressions might come later than I thought as I had a pretty serious cold this weekend, which affected fit and seal somewhat, as well as my perception on sound. I'm all better today though.
Some general comments:
- These are not one of the standard models - it's a W4 reshell with a Sonion 32A010i
- The faceplates don't look as sharp under normal lighting. Either because it's a bit sunnier outside or because they've grown on me even more, I have to say that they look great. The glittery blue I think is just some sort of glitter, but the larger-pieced raden parts have a real sense of dimensionality to them.
- The shell quality is good. A lot better than some of the JH stuff I've seen around town (but that isn't saying much). There are exactly 3 "bubbles" in total, all of them are near where the driver and the sides meet. My guess is that there were some space limitations. There is a small blemish that I can't see but can feel near where the faceplate and the rest of the shell meet.
- The left MMCX socket is loose. This is probably my only major complaint. I know it's the socket because I can plug in the right MMCX connector on the cable and it will still take as much effort as it would if I had the left connector in to pull out. Ever 3-4 insertion into the ear the left connector will pop out. This is something that I might look into.
- The cable is standard fare and he did not say where he outsourced them though I did ask. I do wish that the MMCX connectors felt more robust although they do their job (the right one is on very nice and snuggly). The memory wire and termination and strain relief seemed to be DIYed by him, and they look like it for sure (but overall this is not a qualm and it does not look terrible). I asked him to terminate a Oyaide P3.5 on this and I am loving it, it's big and robust and beautiful. He said that he didn't have a rhodium-plated one left but the one on mine is rhodium-plated (the P-3.5R) although there are a couple of scruff marks so I'm not sure where he got it from. It looks very nice otherwise and works very well.
- While I was sick I could not get a proper seal, tested via the Sensaphonics seal test. At first I thought that he might have polished off too much near the helix as there was some give near that area and I had to twist it out just a tad bit after I had twisted it in which wouldn't be the case if there was more supporting material there. I no longer have this problem and 50Hz is just as audible as 500Hz in the test.
- Sensitive! Usually the Clip Zip has hiss but it is near-inaudible to all but 2-3 of stuff I've owned. This one picks it up fairly well. For late-night listening at -60-70dB with a track that has extremely dark background it is a bother. With live stuff it sort of mixes in but I can still hear it. On my commute there was no problems however.
And some (very) limited sound impressions as I did spent the whole day today listening to these (since 7AM), as well as the day before and the day before that. The impressions themselves are made even more useless by the fact that this was a one-off job and no one will be able to hear this ever so I could probably make up anything I want and no one will be able to validate it bwhahahaha.
Slightly kidding of course.
- The lateral size of the stage seems to be similar as the W4 however the space feels more limited, as now it seems as if the size isn't enough to compensate for the tricks that this thing pulls. This thing images and pulls off positional cues like nothing else. Separation is good but again, there seems to be a lack of space between things due to the inherent size limitations. It gives a very accurate, monitoring-esque presentation which is fantastic, but again, I do wish that there was more space between instruments.
- The midrange clarity is very competent. The level of detail extraction, as well as just clarity and overall distinctive-ness between each note is top-notch. Off of memory the clarity is no slouch to something like the SE846, although the decay isn't as clean. A comparison that might hit closer to home is the ER4P - similar levels of clarity but with more body.
- 2-8kHz have a lot more presence now. Overall more than when I had the W4s lined up with 75ohms of additional resistance, but more even and less peaky. Very pleasant and not shout-y.
- Treble is good but I feel there's a slight dip near 10kHz that comes back up very quickly and gives off good extension to where the frequency sweep is audible up to 15-6kHz (probably more of an indication of my hearing limits although I can hear 17kHz pretty well on off of some monitors). This is EQ-able and I am still narrowing down the bandwidth.
- Bass has less decay due to less of that mid-bass hump. I would say that it's around 2-3dB emphasized above the Etys, and very linear throughout. Reminds me of the BA200. Perhaps the lessened decay contributes to the lack of space but overall I feel as if the size of the confined space is still too similar. Extension is good. 40Hz and peters out near 30Hz after the seal issue was resolved. I EQ it a little bit near this area. Still DTEC-esque in that you feel the punch and that the decay hasn't got that natural reverb as with the CI-22955 on, say the W3. But I feel that now there is a bit more of that natural reverb in that double bass and texture sounds a bit better, likely from the 3200 but that could just be expectation as the back of my mind realizes that there's now the 3200 in there.
- Despite all of this I still feel a sense of warmth that does not go away through EQ - only when I put in the impedance adapter. I don't like doing that though as it puts the upper mids to terribly nasty levels and just sounds strident. Perhaps even-order distortion? I'm not sure what the proprietary-specced DTEC in the Westones differ in comparison to regular DTECs, this might be a question I will have to ask Mr.K as soon as he sends the measurements e-mail. Back to the warm - this is probably only bothersome to me as I like a cooler signature. Tonally this is barely on the warm side of...well, tonal transparency.
- Have I mentioned how clear and distinct each note is? It's really a hallmark to the fact that Mr. K knows his stuff. Really well. If you date his entry on the TWFK thing in his blog (not inclined to find that link), it's probably one of the first instances where the phase thing is documented so well so it's obvious that he has a solid amount of experience with these things. I have scrutinized probably all of his blog posts and they just give off the impression of competency that likely will not come off if you commute to him solely via English.
These have probably turned into much longer comments than I had hoped. In fact I don't know if I can add anything more to the sound part but I will definitely keep things updated as I find any changes (however as I mentioned it will likely be less than useless since no one will have this design other than me, I'm really just talking to myself here). I might add in some impressions on service if I post photos as I think that will be more useful to other people reading.
And an addendum for those who care - 2200ohm (red) filters on the DTECs, 1500ohm (green) on the 32A010i, and either 1000 or 330ohm (brown or grey) or something else on the TWFKs. There was a lot of crossover questions along side the request for measurements so maybe he will have them included in the email (it's been 10 days though...)
Edited by TwinQY - 7/3/14 at 11:47ampost #50 of 1727/3/14 at 6:00pm
After a light jog with these this morning, they do seem to be a bit on the looser side of perfect, in regards to fit on the left side, but it's very easy to position them back to where I'm questioning sending them back for a refit. The loose MMCX socket is the only thing that makes me question otherwise. I will have to shoot him an email as it seems he's no longer checking the order spreadsheet on Google Docs.
I think my impressions of these have settled to where I can confidently say that these are a very forward, detailed, engaging listen. The background could be more black and spacious, but all in all, this is just top-notch. I'd really like to see if I can find someone in town who might have a JH13 or an UERM that'd somewhat fit me to where I could demo them side-by-side. It would probably not be hard to find a JH13 owner though; here in Vancouver it seems to be JH or bust.
In fact I'm going to put out some feels for the last person that I demoed the 13s from (well the right ear was a bust as I have very sharp bends, but otherwise the left earpiece managed to fit just fine).post #51 of 1727/5/14 at 3:35am
Wow thank you so much for the impressions!
I live in Japan myself and after hearing about Kumitate lab, I'm pretty eager to jump on an order a pair of his standard customs.
But I can't find impressions of them anywhere, and there's no place you can demo them is there?post #52 of 1727/5/14 at 4:41amQuote:If you can make it to Tokyo for the long weekend in July, Fujiya is having an event & you can demo on their table instead of buying blind.Originally Posted by Necrophantasia
Wow thank you so much for the impressions!
I live in Japan myself and after hearing about Kumitate lab, I'm pretty eager to jump on an order a pair of his standard customs.
But I can't find impressions of them anywhere, and there's no place you can demo them is there?post #53 of 1727/8/14 at 8:29pm
After trying a couple of cables yesterday, as well as trying some today, I'm finding that the SE846 stock cable seems to stay on tighter than the stock ones, even on the left side of these CIEMs. So do the FiiO RC-SE1. I'm now thinking that the MMCX connectors on this cable (and on a lot of my older Shure cables that I had tried) are loose and the left socket is only very slightly looser than the right. I will have to ask him to send a new cable, and if that does not work I will inevitably send them back to have them looked at. A closer look at the left connector and there seems to be the slightest hint of wear. This is a pretty commonly known boon with MMCX, and it's even addressed in the OP of this thread.
With the fit, I'm having second thoughts on sending them back too soon. I plan on losing a couple of pounds this summer so I'm not sure how this will affect things. He does not have a 30-day fit guarantee, rather a two-time fit guarantee, so this is making me think...
Some notes on some very short comparisons I had between some other DTEC + TWFK combos, among other things.
1) Primo 8 - a very coherent stage. Images more inwards instead of outwards like the reshells. Bass decay is a bit more present in comparison to the reshells. Treble is not as prominent. Overall a very well-done sound. There seems to be inherently better clarity and detail on the reshells, but the presentation also has a little more edge to it, in the mids, not the treble. It'd really be a toss up depending on what one might prefer.
2) W40 - essentially the same setup to what the reshells had been based on. It was enlightening to compare the two directly as it goes to show how different the reshells have become. Bass has much less bloom and the edge that's taken out of each note on the Westones has been brought back into the reshells. Things feel a lot more tactile, everything resolves faster, and I have to take back what I said previously in regards to stage size between the Westones and the reshells - the reshells are wider by a hair. Clarity is up a notch, and overall it's the most beautiful before-and-after case I've ever experienced.
3) K3003 - hey, no DTECs, why'd you break the trend? The treble on the AKGs are smoother, but this audition I experienced some glare that I hadn't remembered as being so prominent before. Perhaps improper fit. Otherwise, the decay is nicer on the AKGs, but the reshells seem wider-sounding, albeit not as deep. While overall there seems to be more space between layers on the AKGs, the reshells opt to throw cues, etc, further away.
4) SE846 - continuing to break the trend. These have a more visceral, but cleaner, low end. Mids are tonally transparent. However, the reshells seem cooler near the upper-mids, and continue to impress with better extension up top. I didn't focus much on the stage size between the two, they seem about the same. I could be completely wrong as these I had the least time with.
5) ER4P (with the S adapter) - probably my longest standing set thus far, I no longer use them as much as they don't seem to insert as easily these days. It could be because I had been swimming regularly a while back and was a frequent user of ears drops. My ears are a bit drier than they used to be due to this. There could also be other factors but I'm warming up to this reason being the primary one. I'm happy to say that these reshells might supplant the Etys as far as sound signature goes. They have a similarly brilliant bandwidth up top, with a nice, clear, crisp set of mids. The reshells seem to be more scrutinous with how distinct each track is positioned, which I'd never thought I say. Depth seems to be a bit better on the Etys though, but that's something I can live with, as long as I keep both. These have the edge in that the midrange has more body while still being quite linear and not emphasized from where the Etys stand. They also reach lower and give more of a tactile feel to things. However the Etys have that nice, smooth, airiness that the reshells seem unable to achieve, due to that dip somewhere near 10-12kHz. Even with it adjusted it seems that the depth of the sound gives it more to work with in terms of that ethereal feel.
So am I still happy with how they sound? Sure. Although I did try the HE-6s again and they leave me....well that's another story for another day.
I'd be very interested to compare these with other TWFK-wielding units, like the NT-6, and some of the Gui Ling stuff I've been seeing. Perhaps some of the Rooths as well, I can't seem to remember how those sounded. Still awaiting a UERM/JH13 demo, of which I'm extremely anxious to hear the results of.post #54 of 1727/8/14 at 8:38pmWow, props on all the impressions TwonQS. I had no idea the these guys handled reshells for all of these different phones. Are these phones that they've made by harvesting drivers/crossovers from existing phones that you send in, or are they built to spec with drivers that Kumi Labs have on hand? I'm actually kinda puzzled that they'd be able to replicate the SE846's low end without that byzantine filter system of theirs. I don't feel the 846 is the last word in bass extension/texture but it's still a very novel application.
Oh, and do get around to demoing the UERM if you can. My pair just came in today. I have to send em back in on account of a art related mishap but the sig is just stellar. Incredible clarity, smoothness coupled with hyper vivid imaging and a remarkably open sounding stage. If it weren't for intriguing stuff like the LAB 1 or the push/pull tech in the new ATHs/REF1 I'd have no desire to acquire anything elsepost #55 of 1727/8/14 at 8:56pmQuote:Originally Posted by Idsynchrono_24
Wow, props on all the impressions TwonQS. I had no idea the these guys handled reshells for all of these different phones. Are these phones that they've made by harvesting drivers/crossovers from existing phones that you send in, or are they built to spec with drivers that Kumi Labs have on hand? I'm actually kinda puzzled that they'd be able to replicate the SE846's low end without that byzantine filter system of theirs. I don't feel the 846 is the last word in bass extension/texture but it's still a very novel application.
Oh, and do get around to demoing the UERM if you can. My pair just came in today. I have to send em back in on account of a art related mishap but the sig is just stellar. Incredible clarity, smoothness coupled with hyper vivid imaging and a remarkably open sounding stage. If it weren't for intriguing stuff like the LAB 1 or the push/pull tech in the new ATHs/REF1 I'd have no desire to acquire anything else
There might be some confusion, with the fault lying on my end.
1) The comparisons were done between the universals and the reshelled W4 + 3200 I had sent to me, in a store. I certainly don't have reshelled versions of all of these IEMs.
2) "These have a more visceral, but cleaner, low end" - i.e. the SE846s have a more visceral, and cleaner low end than my reshells.
3) I think Mr. K just buys his Knowles from Digikey/Mouser, and his Sonions elsewhere.
Or maybe I just read what you wrote wrong. You are a crazy toupee-loving sparrow after all.
On another note, I've felt that the bass on the Shures had always been the best I've heard out of balanced armatures, bar none, and today's audition just confirmed that again. For reference, the Shures had the reference, or whatever they're called, filters on.
I'm curious on the UERMs for sure. I think my mental expectation (not being confirmed in any way of course) would be that if there was a spectrum between the JH13 and the LO5QD, the reshells and the UERMs would lie in between. With the reshells coming closer to the JHs due to the forward presentation, and the UEs lying closer to the Canalworks. Of course this could be totally wrong. Hey you could just give me both so I can have an opportunity to be prove myself wrong and get laughed off of H-F.post #56 of 1727/8/14 at 9:19pmThread Starterpost #57 of 1727/8/14 at 9:31pm
Ya think? I'm actually really impressed by the depth and placement these things are pulling off. Good center imaging, and it feels pretty pin point on left/right, not really getting a sense of any three blob effect or hollowness. The lack of forward projection is about the only thing that's kinda weird to me so far. It's been very early though, as I've listened to them for maybe an hour. Anything in particular I should be looking out for?post #58 of 1727/8/14 at 9:39pm
They seemed to be pretty run-of-the-mill imaging wise. I sort of like that. Not super diffuse. Maybe I'm just a fuddy-duddy. Not good enough for Tralucents or anything.post #59 of 1727/8/14 at 9:46pmpost #60 of 1727/8/14 at 10:00pmThread StarterReturn HomeBack to Forum: Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors
- Kumitate (くみたて) Lab: A Triumph and Celebration of DIY - Impressions Thread
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