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JH16Pro customs vs Roxanne universals - Page 2

post #16 of 24
Thread Starter 

Well, I decided to go with the Heir 5.0s for now.    May order the JH16FPs when I am in Singapore or Thailand next.

post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlcichocki View Post
 

I have used universals for years with horrible luck.  They don't stay in my ears.  I have tried many brands and tips and always end up frustrated and angry.

 

I finally bit the bullet and ordered the Roxanne after I had an opportunity to compare the entire JH line including the Roxanne.  They were all universals that I trialed and granted I still don't know what customs will do for me, but it has to be better than what I'm used to.

 

The Roxanne is amazing!!  The direct comparison was off the chart in favor of the Roxanne.  I have fought off the urge to invest in the past, but no longer.  It is finally time.

I'm really sorry to hear that, and hope CIEMs will be just right for you. My own experience of CIEMs is unfortunately not the best. I've had two pairs and this is how I would summarize my experience.

 

Comfort, sound and isolation of CIEMs (at least in my experience) depend on the position of the facial muscles and the body as a whole. I see a possibility that people with no previous experience of CIEMs may be lead to believe that CIEMs are the be‑all and end‑all in IEM design. For those I think it may be of value to know that acrylic CIEMs are rigid, very rigid (think glass), while ear canals are very flexible. This, at least for me, limits the use of CIEMs. As soon as I move my facial muscles (like when smiling) or deviate too much from the position of the body as it were when the impressions were made, like when laying down on my back in bed (my preferred position when listening to music), the shape of the ear canals changes and consequently affects the isolation, sound and comfort. I would say that (at least for me) CIEMs are ruled out whenever I’m not keeping my head in the upright position it was when the impressions were made. In this respect I find the flexibility of UIEMs to be a major advantage. So, these days I always go for UIEMs.

post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by 88Sound View Post
 

I'm not trying to muddy the waters here, just a note on my experience with custom molds for JH.  Back in May of 2012 I decided to get JH16Pro's (before Freqphase).  I was worried about the impressions that had to be made so I traveled to a JH Audio approved audiologist.  When I made the appointment they knew exactly what I was talking about, which was reassuring.  I came in with my JH audio printout of how the molds should be done (bite block, etc...).  They told me not to worry about it they do this all the time.  They took my impressions without a bite block, I pointed this out to them and they told me that it wouldn't be a problem.  So ... mouth closed and even moving around when they took the impressions.  But.....the impressions were very deep, I think that is the key.  When I received my JH16pro's from these impressions they were perfect for me.  Perfect seal and extremely comfortable. I just ordered Roxannes and will be using the same impressions.  I will say however if I was a singer or any musician that was going to be opening my mouth while I was using these the bite block is critical.  If I open my mouth while using these, eating, or whatever the seal is broken.  I must say I am happy with closed mouth perfection and comfort. YMMV

My impressions were made by the book so I actually have to keep my mouth slightly open to get best possible fit. If not slightly open, it immediately degrades performance.

post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero Dynamik View Post
 

I'm really sorry to hear that, and hope CIEMs will be just right for you. My own experience of CIEMs is unfortunately not the best. I've had two pairs and this is how I would summarize my experience.

 

Comfort, sound and isolation of CIEMs (at least in my experience) depend on the position of the facial muscles and the body as a whole. I see a possibility that people with no previous experience of CIEMs may be lead to believe that CIEMs are the be‑all and end‑all in IEM design. For those I think it may be of value to know that acrylic CIEMs are rigid, very rigid (think glass), while ear canals are very flexible. This, at least for me, limits the use of CIEMs. As soon as I move my facial muscles (like when smiling) or deviate too much from the position of the body as it were when the impressions were made, like when laying down on my back in bed (my preferred position when listening to music), the shape of the ear canals changes and consequently affects the isolation, sound and comfort. I would say that (at least for me) CIEMs are ruled out whenever I’m not keeping my head in the upright position it was when the impressions were made. In this respect I find the flexibility of UIEMs to be a major advantage. So, these days I always go for UIEMs.

I thought it was just me, same when in bed I lose the seal and the bass depth is gone with an overall distance to the sound making it sound further away losing resolution. 

 

Four attempts and one revisit to my JHA authorised audiologist on the third time finally got it about right for me although to this day the left ear is 95% perfect.

 

I used a bite block tall ways first time, my second visit back to my audiologist he compared my actual current ciems to the new impressions and noticed the ciem shells where not full enough on the top section so it was not locking in enough but that second time around I used the bite block the other way so it was not so tall as I am not a singer (well, only in the shower!).  

 

 It still can take a while now to get the fit just right before a long listening session as I think with the shells been a bit filed out to before actually seals to much asserting pressure build up which usually takes a while of adjusting to settle with a bit of fiddling before it is okay for rest of listening session.   

 

I do not think it would put me off another ciem but would be vary wary on next impressions sitting and use that experience to hopefully kill it second time around although I felt a lot of my bad time first ciem fitting experience and from what I gauged from the whole thing was more on JHA's side rather than my audiologist who deals with musicians only (famous ones at that).  But it was back when the Jh16pro was launched with the backlogs and quality issues... oh, a bit like it is now with the Roxanne! 

 

But yes, going to bed is a pain as I spend some nights going to bed with them on and find soon as I lean my head  forwards from laying down the bass and presence all comes back at the flick of a switch.  Maybe no bit block at all next time or even less pressure than before on biting down.... who knows?   

post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by FortisFlyer75 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero Dynamik View Post
 

I'm really sorry to hear that, and hope CIEMs will be just right for you. My own experience of CIEMs is unfortunately not the best. I've had two pairs and this is how I would summarize my experience.

 

Comfort, sound and isolation of CIEMs (at least in my experience) depend on the position of the facial muscles and the body as a whole. I see a possibility that people with no previous experience of CIEMs may be lead to believe that CIEMs are the be‑all and end‑all in IEM design. For those I think it may be of value to know that acrylic CIEMs are rigid, very rigid (think glass), while ear canals are very flexible. This, at least for me, limits the use of CIEMs. As soon as I move my facial muscles (like when smiling) or deviate too much from the position of the body as it were when the impressions were made, like when laying down on my back in bed (my preferred position when listening to music), the shape of the ear canals changes and consequently affects the isolation, sound and comfort. I would say that (at least for me) CIEMs are ruled out whenever I’m not keeping my head in the upright position it was when the impressions were made. In this respect I find the flexibility of UIEMs to be a major advantage. So, these days I always go for UIEMs.

I thought it was just me, same when in bed I lose the seal and the bass depth is gone with an overall distance to the sound making it sound further away losing resolution. 

 

Four attempts and one revisit to my JHA authorised audiologist on the third time finally got it about right for me although to this day the left ear is 95% perfect.

 

I used a bite block tall ways first time, my second visit back to my audiologist he compared my actual current ciems to the new impressions and noticed the ciem shells where not full enough on the top section so it was not locking in enough but that second time around I used the bite block the other way so it was not so tall as I am not a singer (well, only in the shower!).  

 

 It still can take a while now to get the fit just right before a long listening session as I think with the shells been a bit filed out to before actually seals to much asserting pressure build up which usually takes a while of adjusting to settle with a bit of fiddling before it is okay for rest of listening session.   

 

I do not think it would put me off another ciem but would be vary wary on next impressions sitting and use that experience to hopefully kill it second time around although I felt a lot of my bad time first ciem fitting experience and from what I gauged from the whole thing was more on JHA's side rather than my audiologist who deals with musicians only (famous ones at that).  But it was back when the Jh16pro was launched with the backlogs and quality issues... oh, a bit like it is now with the Roxanne! 

 

But yes, going to bed is a pain as I spend some nights going to bed with them on and find soon as I lean my head  forwards from laying down the bass and presence all comes back at the flick of a switch.  Maybe no bit block at all next time or even less pressure than before on biting down.... who knows?   

No, no, I would guess we're quite a few who are not too happy about CIEMs, but it would seem that for some reason we don't talk about it so often. Maybe we feel somehow ashamed about it!? After all the CIEM hype has been rather extreme IMO.

 

You might want to try some of Westone's "Oto-Ease" to get last 5 %.

 

If I go for CIEMs again (being quite happy (understatement) with my "FitEar ToGo 334", "AKG K3303" and "Etymotic ER-4PT") I'm going to insist the audiologist take my impressions while I lay down in bed with a pillow under my head pretending I'm listning to music. :rolleyes:

post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero Dynamik View Post
 

No, no, I would guess we're quite a few who are not too happy about CIEMs, but it would seem that for some reason we don't talk about it so often. Maybe we feel somehow ashamed about it!? After all the CIEM hype has been rather extreme IMO.

 

You might want to try some of Westone's "Oto-Ease" to get last 5 %.

 

If I go for CIEMs again (being quite happy (understatement) with my "FitEar ToGo 334", "AKG K3303" and "Etymotic ER-4PT") I'm going to insist the audiologist take my impressions while I lay down in bed with a pillow under my head pretending I'm listning to music. :rolleyes:

Thanks for "Oto-Ease" tip, will give that a try. 

 

Impressions laying down could be the way to go....  Or if one had the finances have two pair of monitors, one set of impressions done normally and the other laying down and then mark one pair as day and the other night!!

post #22 of 24

Tip: Ask your audiologist how much your ear canals change when you move your jaw.  For some of us there isn't much change.  Personally I find customs infinitely more comfortable than any universals.

post #23 of 24

I think there may be a trick to doing open-mouth impressions... you're not supposed to actually bite down on the block as that can cause your ear canals to contract.  Rather, you're supposed to use that as a guage of how wide to open your mouth while having your teeth touch with the most minimal of pressure.  

 

Someone on head-fi wrote a really great guide to this that I can't seem to find atm, if anyone knows what I'm talking about...


Edited by bobeau - 1/27/14 at 9:59pm
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobeau View Post
 

I think there may be a trick to doing open-mouth impressions... you're not supposed to actually bite down on the block as that can cause your ear canals to contract.  Rather, you're supposed to use that as a guage of how wide to open your mouth while having your teeth touch with the most minimal of pressure.  

 

Someone on head-fi wrote a really great guide to this that I can't seem to find atm, if anyone knows what I'm talking about...

I think I may have been guilty of that to a degree as if I do tense my side muscles along the jaw line as if closing the jaw tighter the ciems opens up to a more crystal clear sound and with my jaw relaxed I have to take quite a bit of time to fiddle with them to get that clear range of sound spectrum experience which sometimes does not always stay there on a consistent basis so unless I clinch my jaw all the time which is very tiresome and may result in jaw lock I am not naturally getting that sound when relaxed as well as when pretending to bite on a hand grenade with the pin out! 

 

if you ever do find that guide which I am trying to also find would be great as I am seriously thinking of getting my JH16's done again knowing a lot of information collated since from reading posts on here about the fit of ciems might well lead to correct fit if done again.  

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