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Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff) - Page 28  

post #406 of 6360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by schneller View Post
 

I keep reading positive reviews about it with you being the only outlier.

 

Would you be willing to re-test with USB instead of coax?

 
I know of two MOTs who purchased the TEAC. To this day, they lie unused. You'll have to page back and find the photo evidence. As far as reviews from Audiostream, is there anything they don't like there which hasn't received their "Greatest Bits" award?
 
Maybe.
post #407 of 6360
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post

 

And speaking of filters, for PCM and for good recordings I think Mode 2 is the best, it's like slightly sweetened Mode 1, still relatively flat but with very little treble roll-off.

 

BTW, did you find upsampled in software material sounding in general better with Vega, I think by the way filters are designed that should be the case, haven't played with that myself, yet.

 

I prefer filter 1 all the way even with PCM. I don't want to lose any of the good even if there is some bad. If I get the chance, I'll try 88.2 as well. But in general, I did find upsampling to 176.4 and 352.8 (DXD) to sound better with the Vega. I would probably just leave the JRMC19 settings to real-time convert everything I was playing to DSD to maximize the SQ of the Vega.

How about DSD, do you use default Mode 6 with 50K cut-off or 5 with 70K? 

Could be a placebo but after using foobar2000 for so many years and trying JRiver for just a week I quickly switched over, for once DSD playback is much smoother when changing tracks, and to my ears sounds less digital (DSD) on both Yulong DA-8 and Vega. After discovering and playing with all media streaming options and ability to play BD, I was sold completely. There is active $10 off coupon http://www.jriver.com/critical_error_16.html?error=21.


Edited by Andrew_WOT - 1/26/14 at 6:58pm
post #408 of 6360

Am curious about the Musical Surroundings MyDAC II.  

 

CONS: It can't go above 192 sample rate, and that's only via SDPIF.  The USB can't go above 44.1

 

PROS:  The design allows future upgradability but the strength of this new technology is the unmatched “analog-like” sound it creates with existing Redbook CD, compressed digital music files such as MP3, and internet music sources.  

 

WHATEVS: It is delta-sigma TI 1798.  Price is $1200

 

http://www.a.musicalsurroundings.com/mus_surr_pgs/mslsurr_mydacII.html

 

If Deezer makes it to the US, this thing will be hard to resist.  

post #409 of 6360

You found all the Sabre based DACs you have tried share the same high freq issue.    But if there is a chance to try DA8, I hope you can take it.    

 

Because:

1) I remember another post in another thread, the author mentioned he tried few Sabre DACs and found highs are unreal,    but he found DA8 doesn't have this issue,  the highs are 'real' again.

So maybe all other manufactures are wrong, and only Yulong did a correct Sabre implementation :confused_face(1):

2)  I am just curious to see where DA8 will fall into your ranking    :) 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

 

It's whatever I can get my hands on or what friends bring over to my house or ship to me. I don't think any manufacturer in their right mind would ever send anything willingly to me after reading of some of the things I've written. It's just too much of a risk. It's standard practice for manufacturers send stuff to people who will only write praise or who are willing to receive gifts, discounts, etc. The only two manufacturers who have dared send stuff to me without any preconditions are Schiit and JPS Labs, and only at my asking.


Edited by yfei - 1/29/14 at 3:36pm
post #410 of 6360

Second this motion!

 

SOMEONE PLEASE PURRIN A YA8!!!

post #411 of 6360

Purrin is out on vacation but will soon be back and it will be time for the Yulong.

 

post #412 of 6360

we all know what this thread was originally titled. perhaps it offended some people. I have no idea why it changed. anyways what I have found is dsd and 24/192 pcm sound about the same to me on a good pcm recording. with a dsd recording dsd sounds better. how many dsd recordings are there? um, let me count. the other area where dsd is better is to clean up a crummy mp3. mp3 converted to dsd sounds better than played back through pcm. now if one has a good cd transport over coax that is just going to be the best. at least for me. I am debating if I will take back my usb cable. the reason I am posting this is because dsd is the fotm. every dac has it now. I would not let it be a selling point because I think it is going to go the way of the dodo bird(again). once the licensing and everything fails it is done for the second time. we forgot about this for like 10 years, now we are doing it again? I am not bashing. I am just saying I would not let it be a selling point. I strongly suggest you purchase your dac based on the pcm you like best.

post #413 of 6360

i noticed most were talked about with USB.

is this meaning the USB input is better than the coax/spdif?

post #414 of 6360
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_man View Post
 

we all know what this thread was originally titled. perhaps it offended some people. I have no idea why it changed. anyways what I have found is dsd and 24/192 pcm sound about the same to me on a good pcm recording. with a dsd recording dsd sounds better. how many dsd recordings are there? um, let me count. the other area where dsd is better is to clean up a crummy mp3. mp3 converted to dsd sounds better than played back through pcm. now if one has a good cd transport over coax that is just going to be the best. at least for me. I am debating if I will take back my usb cable. the reason I am posting this is because dsd is the fotm. every dac has it now. I would not let it be a selling point because I think it is going to go the way of the dodo bird(again). once the licensing and everything fails it is done for the second time. we forgot about this for like 10 years, now we are doing it again? I am not bashing. I am just saying I would not let it be a selling point. I strongly suggest you purchase your dac based on the pcm you like best.

 

Your post started well with respect to DSD but can you really say that MP3 converted to DSD is better? For a start there is no point doing that conversion.

Why would you try and convert from a very low quality format to one of the highest quality formats? You can't gain information in the conversion. At best you could say that conversion to DSD smooths out the compression commonly found in such MP3 tracks. But...that would be wrong. DSD is one of the highest quality formats available. There is a lot of debate regarding DSD (in its various forms) against HI-REZ PCM (again its various forms)......You can't bring MP3 into this arena.....sorry but it has no place here! MP3 to DSD should yield the same result. You need to look at the audio chain you used to arrive by this assumption.  

post #415 of 6360

okay you know audio is open to a ton of interpretation and preference. a lot of it has no technical explanation like cables for instance. I swear, to my ears it makes mp3 sound better. I mean I think it takes 320kbps mp3 and makes it sound nearly like redbook. I know this is impossible but so are a lot of other things we do. hey, it's my ears. for the record I will say this is not technically correct but I know what I personally hear. I was like darn, that made the mp3 sound pretty good. I have no rhyme or reason for this but my own ears tell me different. as for the rest of the dsd debate I don't know. different tracks sound better with different settings/resolutions/formats. I will say native dsd files to me are like insane. the best. there are so few it is a shame. incredibly my cdp can send dsd over coax! the problem is my dac cannot read dsd over coax afaik. because I do have some sacds. but I don't think I can rip them, due to copy protection and I don't wish to break the law. 

post #416 of 6360

Purrin,

 

How would you rank the Arcam rDac compared to the Uber Bifrost? Thanks

post #417 of 6360
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

 

Do you have the Gen 1 or Gen 2 USB?

 

It's the Gen 2. I had it packed away last summer and hadn't had a chance to listen to it since. I had not heard it with my newer rig and I never compared it against the X-Sabre.

 

After listening to both over the past few days it seems the comparison has really shown me the shortcomings of both DACs and has made me a bit itchy to look for something new. 

 

I can see why you like the Bifrost and rate it over the X-Sabre, it does have a togetherness to the sound that is what I would say is the Schiit house sound. Rock sounds great on it and overall it is consistently pleasant. The music sounds like it should and there is no struggle to get a good sound from it. On the negative side it does have a bit of a greyness to it and it doesn't offer many surprises. I don't think you will ever fall out of your chair listening to the Bifrost. If there are surprises to be had it is with hi-res tracks where it often sounds better than it's price. 

 

I bought the X-Sabre because I was intrigued by it's hella block of metal construction after seeing some pics of it in reviews. For me this is exactly what you want in a DAC, as every LCD screen, built in amp or other add on is just going to add noise. For me a brick of metal with nothing but an on switch seems fine, and the X-Sabre does have a fantastic non-existent noise background due to this. I couldn't care less about DSD (someone else in this thread said it was "compressed PCM" which seems right to me) and there are maybe only two or three DSD titles that I listen to as their mastering is better than their PCM counterparts. I could move over to a PCM only DAC and never look back, and really that is what I want, a DAC that excels with 16/44 and up PCM.

 

But yeah, the treble on the X-Sabre can be a little bit of a problem, and the issue is brought to the forefront in comparison to the sweetness of the Bifrost. As well, the X-Sabre has a bit of an artificial quality to the soundstage, almost as if it is being DSP processed. It's like the designers thought more soundstage means higher end and tried to go as far as they could. This can all become a bit fatiguing, whereas with the Bifrost you can listen all day.

 

When the X-Sabre is sweet, it can be quite something though. And where I am at with it now is doing a bit of taming by switching out power cords and interconnects etc. I suppose I am finding that the X-Sabre has more raw potential than the Bifrost and it is remaining in my system for now.

 

I think that what I would like to hear is a well constructed and refined AKM4399 DAC. Something that takes the Bifrost sound to a higher and cleaner level.

post #418 of 6360
Hm.. even with the king of soundstage, the HD800, I don't find the X-Sabre's soundstage attributes fatiguing. It's the least fatiguing DAC I've heard yet. Laid back but still highly detailed at the same time. I don't know how it manages.
post #419 of 6360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlitun View Post

 

...

I think that what I would like to hear is a well constructed and refined AKM4399 DAC. Something that takes the Bifrost sound to a higher and cleaner level.

 

Sounds like what you're looking for is the Gungnir. :) 

post #420 of 6360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

Hm.. even with the king of soundstage, the HD800, I don't find the X-Sabre's soundstage attributes fatiguing. It's the least fatiguing DAC I've heard yet. Laid back but still highly detailed at the same time. I don't know how it manages.


This is my impression as well. Loving the soundstage with x-sabre and HD800 so far!

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